The Death Penalty and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops

[Mycroft]

Tom of Assisi:

You should be very proud of your public school education.

Yes I said we should kill whoever we want…is there no end to you cleverness?

when the government has the ability to decide who should live or die i think its pretty downhill. and i really dont think my half a year of public schooling has done much to what im writing in this forum…but i guess i should just bow down to your supreme knowledge and logic.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Benedictus:

Yeah, I agreed with the recent decision, but I thought the reasoning behind the majority’s opinion was terrible. The Court’s job is to interpret the laws and Constitution of our country, not to judge “evolving standards of decency.” If standards are really “evolving”, then let the people decide.

I am really not a fan of the death penalty. I think it is overused and misused in the U.S. A large number death row inmates received poor legal representation.

Nevertheless, every time I hear the USCCB talk about the death penalty, my ears start burning. They have an uncanny ability to distort the Church’s teaching on the matter.

in the last 32 years in America, only some 900 convicted criminals have been executed by the state. THAT’S OVERUSED!!!

Compare that to 45 million abortions in the same time period…do a check on your priorities.

 

[Mycroft]

yeah 900 people, who cares about them.

tom you cant really argue with him by bringing up abortion when this topic is supposed to be about the death penalty. (although abortion is a million times worse)

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

when the government has the ability to decide who should live or die i think its pretty downhill. and i really dont think my half a year of public schooling has done much to what im writing in this forum…but i guess i should just bow down to your supreme knowledge and logic.

The school crack was in answer to your inability to stay focused on what is being discussed. I am having a hard time getting you to understand or focus on the discussion at hand.

Please understand: we are not saying that everyone must die…or that the government has the power to decide who lives and dies (I’m saying this very slowly as I type it).

What is being said is that we are a nation of laws. In America, if a person is convicted by a jury of his/her peers of the crime of capital murder…then the death penalty is (and should remain) an option. That is not government fiat or randomness…we all know the law ahead of time and it is fair. Actions have consequences.

What is your Biblical basis for disagreement other than the notion that Christ was all about peace?

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

yeah 900 people, who cares about them.

tom you cant really argue with him by bringing up abortion when this topic is supposed to be about the death penalty. (although abortion is a million times worse)

1st of all: I continually pray for the CONVERSION of all inmates on death row…their conversion, mind you, not their being excussed from punishment. I am more worried about their souls than their bodies as the socialists are. Please all of you: pray with me for their conversion to Christ and His Church.

2nd: I mention abortion only to provide perspective…of course there is no point of similarity between killing innocent babies and executed convicted murderers…you are correct.

 

[Mycroft]

i dont think you really care about their conversion. if you did then you probly wouldnt be for them being killed. theres a better chance of them being converted if their alive. i just dont see the point in killing them when they could be in jail.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

i dont think

you’ve got a point there.

It’s called motivation my friend. A lifetime to watch cable and have your bills paid for you isn’t cause for conversion. But if they know they’re about to meet God they have cause for wanting to convert.

bottomline: whether they convert or not does not mean their punishment gets excused.

 

[Mycroft]

Tom of Assisi:

we should kill whoever we want

yeah good plan. people should definitely have their life threatened to influence them to convert. my point is that capital punishment doesnt solve anything. it doesnt erase the wrong theyve done. it doesnt bring back anyone theyve killed. it doesnt show mercy. it doesnt give them a enough time to think about their lives and the wrong theyve done and maybe think about changing. we could keep them in jail the rest of their lives. the catholic church allows the death penalty, it doesnt condone it. i can believe that its wrong and still be following the church.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

yeah good plan. people should definitely have their life threatened to influence them to convert. my point is that capital punishment doesnt solve anything. it doesnt erase the wrong theyve done. it doesnt bring back anyone theyve killed. it doesnt show mercy. it doesnt give them a enough time to think about their lives and the wrong theyve done and maybe think about changing. we could keep them in jail the rest of their lives. the catholic church allows the death penalty, it doesnt condone it. i can believe that its wrong and still be following the church.

These people are convicted criminals who must answer for their crimes. They chose to kill; they must accept the punishment that goes along with that. The government is not randmly threatening to kill people off the street…it is administering justice to convicted murderers.

Actions have consequences and no amount of blood being shed by a bleeding heart liberal can change that. But, if they accept the blood of Christ then at least they will not have to go to hell for eternity. That is far more important than their lives in any case. Pray for their conversion–don’t make excuses for them or let them get away with murder.

The Catholic Church does condone, and always has condoned the death penalty. JPII personal opinions aside. Capital punishment is Biblical and in keeping with 2,000 years of Church tradition.

Mercy does not equal excusing people from he consequences of their actions.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

your logic is to gud for me…you are my master in this debat. thank you for condescending to speek to me

You are more than welcome. Although don’t be too hard on yourself: you did a fine job.

 

[Mycroft]

Tom of Assisi:

These people are convicted criminals who must answer for their crimes. They chose to kill; they must accept the punishment that goes along with that. The government is not randmly threatening to kill people off the street…it is administering justice to convicted murderers.

Actions have consequences and no amount of blood being shed by a bleeding heart liberal can change that. But, if they accept the blood of Christ then at least they will not have to go to hell for eternity. That is far more important than their lives in any case. Pray for their conversion–don’t make excuses for them or let them get away with murder.

The Catholic Church does condone, and always has condoned the death penalty. JPII personal opinions aside. Capital punishment is Biblical and in keeping with 2,000 years of Church tradition.

Mercy does not equal excusing people from he consequences of their actions.

who are we to decide who lives or dies? im not saying we should “let them get away with murder” im just saying we dont have to resort to killing them. you cant solve killing by killing more. throw em in jail and let them stew. god will judge them himself, all we need to do is protect society from them. and i hope your not calling me a liberal. im not liberal in most of my views, should i call you a liberal because your against the iraqi war?

 

[Mycroft]

Tom of Assisi:

I am your intellectual God Mycroft. Mostly because i use capital letters and make up a lot of quotes by you, but that’s beside the point. God does not care if we kill people, as long as i approve of it first. You are a whiny communist liberal and i will personally damn you to Hell when I judge you. Who cares what Jesus or the pope thinks, I am a lot more intelligent than either of them. And by the way my greatest attribute is my modesty.

thainx four leting mee liv mastar.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

The U.S. Conference on Catholic Bishops should cut to the chase and identify that the U.S. Judicial system is not infallible and can potentially execute the wrong man.

Massachusetts has the second highest rate of wrongful incarceration in the country. Science and DNA testing have resulted in over 23 released men from prison, several who have done over 20 years time for a crime they did not commit, or were even near the scene. If Massachusetts had a death sentence, then the Courts would be guilty of legal murder in some of these cases.

The opinion of “evolving standards of decency” just avoids identifying the inherent ineptitude of the American judicial system.

In the hands of our inept legal system, Capital punishment means:

1. The wrong man might be executed;
2. Powerful politicians might misuse capital punishment as a method of legal assassination against a political rival.

These are the two issues which the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops should address, not “evolving standards of decency.”

 

[Mycroft]

hey shut up, we should be able to kill people alright? stop whining about “wrong guy being executed” and stuff.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

thainx four leting mee liv mastar.

Don’t mention it. I havn’t laughed so hard in a long time…since at least last week.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Mycroft:

, should i call you a liberal because your against the iraqi war?

If you ever call me a liberal, I will kill you.

LOL (just kidding)

 

[Mycroft]

Tom of Assisi:

If you ever call me a liberal, I will kill you.

LOL (just kidding)

i thought you wouldnt like that one too much. though i have to say my quotes are funnier when you make them up.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

Ghosty:

. I can’t think of any instances in the U.S. where containment is simply not an option, therefore I can’t think of any situations in which the death penalty should be permittable.

~ As a start, I am firmly convinced that the death penalty is often sought in a biased manner and is generally over applied.

However, if one keeps in mind the idea the Church currently has about how prisoners are to be treated, then I can think of several instances where a prisoner remains a threat even while locked in a cell. Many serial killers have “fan clubs” they remain in correspondence with by mail that have in turn sparked “copycat” killings. many crime lords do continue to oversee the operations of thier criminal networks -including ordering the deaths of rivals - through thier lawyers. Others yet yet arrange to have their guards bought off to get communications passed back and forth. And certain terrorist/religious figures remain a inspiring threat ot thier followers so long as they draw breath whether they are heard form or not.

If the Church permitted truly throwing these folks into a cell never to be heard from again wihtout thier communications being monitored at multiple levels and permitted their restriction to convenineces to be reduced to essentially nothing and no human contact, then yes, there might be a good argument that the death penalty was no longer necessary in places where that levelof security could be accomplished without an undue burden on society. But Chrich teaching about the treatment of prisoners contradicte the very security precautions that would be necessary for these cases, and it is still a very expensive standard of security to meet for the worst of the worst.