The Departed

[CathCentrist]

Cathcentrist answer all of these please…

Did you enjoy that restaurant scene? When the priest are called c–ck s–ckers? And portrayed as “rats”?

Are you an official movie critic?

Was this scene necessary for the movie to be successful?

Did you agree with the critic who said…

“To begin with, we all know that religious institutions in general and the Catholic Church in particular are horrible and dangerous, so feel free to disparage them at every opportunity. In The Departed, see how Mr. Scorsese shows two priests and a nun drinking in a restaurant. Note how his character comments to the priests about pederasty and implies that the nun is sexually promiscuous. This is important in that it reinforces the viewer’s perception that the Catholic Church is inherently corrupt, and also brilliant on Mr. Scorsese’s part in that if he is ever accused of viewing the Catholic Church with hatred–which we know, ha, ha, he obviously does–he can simply claim it was the character making these accusations, not himself.”

Do you deny that there are people who will lose resppect for the Church after watching this kind of in your face persecution of the Church under the guise of art?

I’m not for censorship but my point is two things…

1. What does it say that this film won best Picture?
2. What does it say that alot of Catholics are indifferent?

I enjoyed the movie as a whole.

Anyone who pays money to watch a movie is entitled to be a critic of it. And for added buffer I have written online reviews for dvds which have been published AND I have been compensated for those efforts - and NO, not in a “blog” I have recieved Hollywood Screeners to write reviews for.

People have lost respect for the Church (me included in the areas of coverup.) The movie and Costellos comment reflected that. BUt again, Costello is a low life thug and charactor and if people in real life are gonna be swayed then oh well, I truly do not care

Its says Marty was due his award and deserved it. Flags of Our Fathers was good but not as good as Departed.

What you wish to call indifferent is your opinion. People view things differently and that doesnt mean one is indifferent

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Franciscan, were you this angry and outspoken when high level members of the Catholic Church used the Church’s resource to assist pedophiles in sexually abusing children?

 

[Franciscan]

Franciscan, were you this angry and outspoken when high level members of the Catholic Church used the Church’s resource to assist pedophiles in sexually abusing children?

Im not angry. I don’t think Im outspoken either. I just pointed out my dimay over the scene that denegrates the Church wich is mystical **a body **that I am a member of not just an ancient, man-made organization.

Since I love the Church I was crushed by the scandals. But I nevber lost sight of her true nature and her head which is divine.

But the Church is a mixture of light and dark, human and divine.

If the Church were only a human institution I would have left.

Those criminals involved should be jailed not just defrocked.

But we don’t need to constantly kick the Church when she is down.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

But we don’t need to constantly kick the Church when she is down.

Maybe the Catholic Church would stop being “kicked” if they would release all the information they have in regard the sexual abuse of children.

I think they should continue to be kicked until they release everything. What is your opinion of the the Catholic Church not releasing this information?The current Pope (while he was still a Cardinal) declared in letter that members of the Catholic Church were not to reveal certain information in regard to active criminal investigations or they would be excommunicated. Do you agree with this? Do think this in the action of a good man?

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20010518_epistula_graviora%20delicta_lt.html

 

[Franciscan]

Maybe the Catholic Church would stop being “kicked” if they would release all the information they have in regard the sexual abuse of children.

I think they should continue to be kicked until they release everything. What is your opinion of the the Catholic Church not releasing this information?The current Pope (while he was still a Cardinal) declared in letter that members of the Catholic Church were not to reveal certain information in regard to active criminal investigations or they would be excommunicated. Do you agree with this? Do think this in the action of a good man?

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20010518_epistula_graviora%20delicta_lt.html

This time please read carefully,

Here’s what I said, "Those criminals involved should be jailed not just defrocked."

I agree with the Pope (who is a very good man). It’s normal and common to not leak info. during a criminal probe or investigation of any organization. He’s not telling people to not cooperate with authorities.

Also we’re not privy to the inside info. that he has or the Bishop’s have.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Here’s what I said, “Those criminals involved should be jailed not just defrocked.”

And if the Catholic Church would release all the information they have there would be a greater chance of this happening.

I agree with the Pope (who is a very good man). It’s normal and common to not leak info. during a criminal probe or investigation of any organization.

So because other organizations do this it makes it ok? Again, they are protecting child rapists.

Also we’re not privy to the inside info. that he has or the Bishop’s have.

But we know there is information. They won’t release it because they are covering for the past action of the Catholic Church.

You really agree with the decesion to continue to protect child rapists?

 

[Franciscan]

And if the Catholic Church would release all the information they have there would be a greater chance of this happening.

True, they should not hold back info. from authorities.

So because other organizations do this it makes it ok?

Im not a lawyer but it’s the normal protocol.

Again, they are protecting child rapists.

Since no one is leaking info that’s for the authorities to determine. You dont know that.

But we know there is information. They won’t release it because they are covering for the past action of the Catholic Church.

They must release any info. to proper authorities and they have cooperated. But the process is slow and we are all left frustrated.

Do you think the Church is getting special treatment from prosecutors?

You really agree with the decesion to continue to protect child rapists?

You are assuming that they are still at large continuing their role as priests. Prove it.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

You are assuming that they are still at large continuing their role as priests. Prove it.

We don’t know because the Catholic Church will not release the information. And even if they are not still raping children, they deserve to be punished for what they did.

What reason can the Catholic Church have for not releasing this information other than to protect itself? Is that the moral thing to do? Would you support any other group refusing to trun over information about child rapists? How is what the Catholic Church doing here not evil?

 

[Franciscan]

We don’t know because the Catholic Church will not release the information. And even if they are not still raping children, they deserve to be punished for what they did.

What reason can the Catholic Church have for not releasing this information other than to protect itself? Is that the moral thing to do? Would you support any other group refusing to trun over information about child rapists? How is what the Catholic Church doing here not evil?

If you want to continue arguing with Catholics about this you can resurface many threads that are about this issue.

Can you link to a reliable source that shows that the Church is refusing to cooperate with authorities?

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

If you want to continue arguing with Catholics about this you can resurface many threads that are about this issue.

You brought it up. You said it was wrong to continue to “kick” the Catholic Church over this issue. However, they are protecting child rapists and deserve to be called on this. The fact that you can’t answer the questions I put toward you shows that you cannot defend these actions.

Can you link to a reliable source that shows that the Church is refusing to cooperate with authorities?

How about the letter from the current Pope that I linked? Is that not good enough?

 

[Franciscan]

You brought it up. You said it was wrong to continue to “kick” the Catholic Church over this issue. However, they are protecting child rapists and deserve to be called on this. The fact that you can’t answer the questions I put toward you shows that you cannot defend these actions.

Ammonius Saccus,
You won.
Is that what you want to hear?

If the whole scandal ever ends, I truly hope anyone involved in covering up or raping kids will go to jail forever. And Even that would be insufficient as a penalty.—Here we agree.

To say the whole Catholic Church is corrupt or immoral because of these traitors is not fair-I think you will agree.

 

[fnz2thrght]

Here’s the thing though- unless you actually live here - in MA - you can’t really understand how the Catholic Church is part of just about everyone’s lives. So to me, it was just mobsters (whitey bulger) a very evil guy, spewing forth his garbage. But the thing is, even the bad guys go to church here. They sit and the go to confession and they give money to the church. They still claim they are catholic. The scene didn’t seem out of place to me at all. That’s just the way life is here. I can’t speak for what the rest of the country is like, but roughly 75% of everyone I know is Catholic…many not practicing but they still consider themselves to be Catholic, just as most consider themselves to be French or Irish. Its who we are. I have 4 churches within 2 miles of my house. It’s a very different thing out here.

I’m not condoning it, but I thought the scene was in keeping with the movie.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

To say the whole Catholic Church is corrupt or immoral because of these traitors is not fair-I think you will agree.

No, it does not make the whole corrupt or immoral, but it is the official position of the Catholic Church (per Ratzinger’s letter) that the Catholic Church is to continue to withhold information in regard to active investigations of child rapists.

 

[Orogeny]

Do you have a link to that document that is translated to english? I can’t read latin.

Peace

Tim

 

[cathgal]

It seems to me, that in order to be consistent, you’ve also got to say that the Passion is also an anti-Christian movie. Since it depicts Satan as a villain who presides over the brutal and violent torture of Christ and since moviegoers will naturally seek to emulate a villain no matter what he or she does in the film, the Passion is therefore one of the most evil movies ever released to the general public. There is no justification for it. A movie that glorifies graphically violent deicide is small potatoes next to a movie about insulting a few priests.

“glorifies graphically violent deicide” ??
Do you know of any person who watched it and laugh at the deity being slayed? Did any enjoy the violence? Rather than criticizing on the violence itself, why not focus on why the deity is willing to take on a violent slaying. No doubt that was the focal point of the movie.
We’re not talking about the deity taking on a few punches, lashes and kicks and then was crucified. I mean, what’s so special about that?! Some people had suffered just as much! Watch the movie and you’ll know what I’m talking about, if you haven’t already. Words cannot describe it!

The movie has affect many people that they have turned back to God and you said there is no justification for it?? The only ‘no’ justification is the Christians who watched it and do not repent of their sins!

 

[Martin_Le_Fay]

“glorifies graphically violent deicide” ??
Do you know of any person who watched it and laugh at the deity being slayed? Did any enjoy the violence? Rather than criticizing on the violence itself, why not focus on why the deity is willing to take on a violent slaying. No doubt that was the focal point of the movie.
We’re not talking about the deity taking on a few punches, lashes and kicks and then was crucified. I mean, what’s so special about that?! Some people had suffered just as much! Watch the movie and you’ll know what I’m talking about, if you haven’t already. Words cannot describe it!

The movie has affect many people that they have turned back to God and you said there is no justification for it?? The only ‘no’ justification is the Christians who watched it and do not repent of their sins!

My point is that if you’re going to contextualize the Passion, you need to be consistent and do the same thing for movies like the Departed. If you don’t, then let’s be honest and admit that all we’re really doing here is trying to validate a movie’s morality based on our own subjective tastes.

 

[OldAgeGuru]

Martin, I agree with you.

I never saw The Passion. I have no urge or need to. What I can picture in my head is at least 10,000 times worse than whatever loony Mel Gibson could even think of putting on celluloid.

I don’t glorify the violence in The Departed. However, I understand that the violence in the movie is also a very real aspect of the lifestyle that those people chose to live. Some who were good people, like Sheen’s character, and some who were in the grey area like DiCaprio’s character, and some who were downright evil, like Damon and Nicholson’s characters. State troopers sign up to end the violence, sometimes by using it. And gangsters, well, I never really thought that they amicably resolved territorial disputes through negotiations, lawyers, handshakes and happy talk.

The intersting aspect of these stories, at least to me, is how these evil guys, who are TERRIFICALLY smart (see real life Whitey Bulger), who could have been anything, choose this life, and how they rationalize it, and live with it.

As for the quote, I watched the movie today again ( I had a Matt Damon fest, with Good Will, Talented Mr. Ripley, Dogma, Rounders and The Departed while writing a paper). The way the scene read to me wasn’t so much of Costello saying an ignorant and rude comment to an innocent priest, but a comment to a priest who Costello knew had innappropriately touched children and who Costello had a “conversation” about it with him, and just a reminder about that “conversation” and the ramifications.

My DVD came with the script and the scene has this

Costello: Good Morning Fathers
(The Older priest is very nervous looking around. THe Younger priest concerned for his elder but not personally implicated. Costello leans over the older priest)

Costello: Remember our talk? Little boys, etc…
(older priest nods terrified)
I am as God made me, is that what you say?
(older priest nods)
Younger pirest: May I remind you that pride comes before the fall?

So basically it’s that the older priest was allegedly guilty, and the younger priest had no idea.

 

[Chancellare]

All these accusation and counter accusations about the Catholic Church being corrupt and immoral gloss over other more fundamental underlying facts:

1. We conveniently label the Church as an outside entity outside of its real definition: That the Church is composed of the people as ministers the sacrament and the clergy performing their office. As such we conveniently forget that since we are the Church and we are corrupt and immoral as a people, we cannot simply flush down one party as the source of corruption and then others are good…
2. The corrupt and immoral practices of all are just a reflection of the moral decadence of the society wherein we live. So we cannot make ourselves holier by convicting as few members of the clergy who were shaped by our society and came from our own loins.
3. There is a psychopathologist’s term for it: projection and tranference.
   I have more of them but it could be digressing already.
   I have a few more things to say but I choke with the realization that much as we like to convict the clergy who stumbled, we cannot claim moral ascendancy at all without cleaning our own interior life as well. Sorry but this may have to be in another thread.

 

[Nick]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=61975&highlight=movie