The Deuterocanonicals (No, not a debate....... hopefully!)

[NotWorthy]

As I’m reading through the Old Testament, I’m coming across the Deuterocanonical books and two things strike me.

A) You can see where the Greek way of thinking is influencing the writers. It’s almost as if these books serve as a bridge between the Non-Deutero books and the New Testament. You can clearly see the seeds of the New Testament theology in so many of them.

Ex. Sirach 3:17-18 - My son, perform your tasks in meekness; then you will be loved by those whom God accepts. The greater you are, the more you must humble yourself; so you will find favour in the sight of the Lord. Can’t you hear Jesus speaking when you read this?

B) Just about every book has something in it that makes it glaringly obvious why they were discarded by Non-Catholics. In addition to the most clear example of 2nd Maccabees and prayers for the dead, I came across Sirach chapter 5:
"Do not be so confient of atonement that you add sin to sin. Do not say, “His mercy is great, he will forgive the multitude of my sins,” for both mercy and wrath are with him, and his anger rests on sinners. And I’ve seen examples such as these in just about every book.

 

[El_camino]

As I’m reading through the Old Testament, I’m coming across the Deuterocanonical books and two things strike me.

A) You can see where the Greek thinking is affecting the writers.

The only problem is that MOST of those books were originally written in Hebrew… the thing is that the hebrew version is no longer available and all we got today is the Greek translation… (although fragment of these books in Hebrew were found among the Dead sea scrolls) so, no offense, but what you just said here is not quite correct.

NotWorthy:

Ex. Sirach 3:17-18 - My son, perform your tasks in meekness; then you will be loved by those whom God accepts. The greater you are, the more you must humble yourself; so you will find favour in the sight of the Lord. Can’t you hear Jesus speaking when you read this?

Yes… I can hear Jesus speaking there, but Sirach was in fact one of the books that was original written in Hebrew.

newadvent.org/cathen/05263a.htm

Many blessings,

E.C.

 

[NotWorthy]

The only problem is that MOST of those books were originally written in Hebrew… the thing is that the hebrew version is no longer available and all we got today is the Greek translation… (although fragment of these books in Hebrew were found among the Dead sea scrolls) so, no offense, but what you just said here is not quite correct.

I didn’t say they were originally penned in Greek. I said they were influenced by Greek thinking. Big difference. For example, the Greeks seemed to have a fuller concept of the soul existing after death. The Hebrews, other than Abraham, and a gradual development of Sheol (which was simply empty nothingness for the dead to dwell in and only began to surface in the Psalms), didn’t have nearly as modern a view of the soul until you come across the writings in the Deutero’s.

Yes… I can hear Jesus speaking there, but Sirach was in fact one of the books that was original written in Hebrew.

newadvent.org/cathen/05263a.htm

Many blessings,

E.C.

Again, no argument. Greek thinking and Greek writing are not the same thing.

 

[El_camino]

I didn’t say they were originally penned in Greek. I said they were influenced by Greek thinking. Big difference. For example, the Greeks seemed to have a fuller concept of the soul existing after death. The Hebrews, other than Abraham, and a gradual development of Sheol (which was simply empty nothingness for the dead to dwell in and only began to surface in the Psalms), didn’t have nearly as modern a view of the soul until you come across the writings in the Deutero’s.

Again, no argument. Greek thinking and Greek writing are not the same thing.

Ohh ok… sorry I misunderstood you… I see what you say now and I agree…

Pax Christi,

E.C.

 

[dbacks5439]

scripturecatholic.com has an excellent listing of NT-Deuterocanonical text comparisons.

 

[fellowChristian]

Matthew 6:12, 14-15—“Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors; if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your heavenly father forgive your transgressions.”
Sirach 28:2—“Forgive your neighbor’s injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven.”

Luke 1:17 (describing John the Baptist)—“He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers towards children and the disobediant to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord.”
Sirach 48:10—“You are destined, it is written, in time to come, to put an end to wrath before the day of the Lord, to turn back the hearts of fathers towards their sons, and to re-establish the tribes of Jacob.”

Luke 1:28, 1:42—“And coming to her, he said, ‘Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you!’…Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
Judith 13:18—"Then Uzziah said to her: 'Blessed are you, daughter, by the Most High God, above all the women of the earth; and blessed be the Lord God, the Creator of heaven and earth.

Luke 1:52—“He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones, but lifted up the lowly.”
Sirach 10:14—“The thrones of the arrogant God overturns, and establishes the lowly in their stead.”

Luke 12:19-20—“I shall say to myself, ‘Now as for you, you have so many good things stored up for many years, rest, eat, drink, be merry!’ But God said to him, ‘You fool, this night your life will be demanded of you; and the things you have prepared, to whom will they belong?’”
Sirach 11:19—“When he says: ‘I have found rest, now I will feast on my possessions,’ he does not know how long it will be till he dies and leaves them to others.”

Luke 18:22—“When Jesus heard this, he said to him, ‘There is still one thing left for you: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.’”
Sirach 29:11—“Dispose of your treasure as the Most High commands, for that will profit you more than the gold.”

John 3:12—“If I tell you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?”
Wisdom 9:16—“Scarce do we guess the things on earth, and what is within our grasp we find with difficulty; but when things are in heaven, who can search them out?”

John 5:18—“For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath, but he also called God his own Father, making himself equal to God.”
Wisdom 2:16—“He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father.”