The Devil is in the Catholic Church

[dixieagle]

Yes, but the problem is that “good reason” has many different interpretations. What is one person’s good reason may not really be a good reason in God’s eye’s.

Indeed, there may be as many "good reasons’ as there are couples and families; it is between the couple, their well formed conscience and God.

Most of the time it is very difficult to become unselfish, especially surrounded by society’s view of large families and children in general. They are thought of as burdens.

Sadly, true.

Of course, God does not mean everyone to have large families, ie:infertile couples.

Or even every fertile couple; there are many variables and valid reasons for smaller families; physical or mental health issues, ability to adequately care for a child (and I don’t mean a lavish lifestyle), etc. And these are for no one but the couple and God to judge - just as large families should not be looked down upon.

 

[luvmykids]

Or even every fertile couple; there are many variables and valid reasons for smaller families; physical or mental health issues, ability to adequately care for a child (and I don’t mean a lavish lifestyle), etc. And these are for no one but the couple and God to judge - just as large families should not be looked down upon.

I completely agree, but the majority of people I come across in my travels, feel the need to immediately give me a defense as to why they do not have as many children as me, and it’s usually, “oh, I could never do it, I can barely handle the two I have.” I get that comment almost as often as the “boy do you have your hands full” comment.

What these people don’t understand is that I didn’t think I could do it after my second one either. I could barely handle the 2 I had as well. If someone had told me that I was going to have 6 kids I would have said “impossible, I could never do it.” Somehow, God gives you the grace to handle it when you are faithful to Him. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it wasn’t easy with 2 kids either. Once you have a child, your life changes forever.

I don’t go through every day, thinking that I have it all under control. I never had it all under control. I just trust God and give each and every day to Him.

 

[dixieagle]

I completely agree, but the majority of people I come across in my travels, feel the need to immediately give me a defense as to why they do not have as many children as me, and it’s usually, “oh, I could never do it, I can barely handle the two I have.” I get that comment almost as often as the “boy do you have your hands full” comment.

What these people don’t understand is that I didn’t think I could do it after my second one either. I could barely handle the 2 I had as well. If someone had told me that I was going to have 6 kids I would have said “impossible, I could never do it.” Somehow, God gives you the grace to handle it when you are faithful to Him. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it wasn’t easy with 2 kids either. Once you have a child, your life changes forever.

I don’t go through every day, thinking that I have it all under control. I never had it all under control. I just trust God and give each and every day to Him.

Lovely sentiments; we all do what we can Sounds as if your children are blessed indeed!

 

[mom_of_ten]

Again I say that NFP is Church-supported…it is NOT Church Teaching…not dogma, not doctrine…we are NOT obligated to agree with it.

Hurtful comments are just that…and are never of the Lord.
I will not defile this forum by stating the INNUMERABLE grotesque, rude, insulting, and accusatory comments that my husband and I OFTEN endure for having what is perceived as a large family. (Although, Catherine of Sienna’s parents would think it quite small, ha ha).

However, we ALSO receive smiles, hugs, prayers, and good wishes…which is what WE choose to give whenever we see ANY family…one child or fifteen…for each and all are gifts of God.

I pray for all of the posters during this Holy Week, that TRUTH may be theirs; and that those who suffer with anger, confusion, or defensiveness may be comforted and have Peace in the Passion of Christ.

And finally, the PURPOSE of marriage is the PROCREATION and EDUCATION of children.

“Be fruitful, multiply, and FILL THE EARTH”, said the Lord.

(Right now, the entire world population can fit (shoulder to shoulder) on an island in New Zealand)…not really filling the earth, are we?

PEACE
mom of ten

 

[kristie_m]

Again I say that NFP is Church-supported…it is NOT Church Teaching…not dogma, not doctrine…we are NOT obligated to agree with it.

mom of ten

But it’s in the CCC. Why would it be there if it weren’t church teaching? Not as a form of willy nilly birth control, mind you, but a legitimate alternative for those with grave reason to limit the size of their family.

Seems to me that we all had to take the class before we were married…is that not teaching???

Sorry, I may be caught up in the language here, and missing your meaning.

The only people qualified to judge if their reasons are “grave” enough would be the couple, (hopefully with counsel from their priest) and God. It would be incredibly presumptuous to claim to understand someone else’es circumstances when you can’t possibly know ALL of the factors that go in to their decision as to whether or not to use NFP.

 

[mom_of_ten]

It is teaching with a “t”, not with a “T”…

The Holy Father has NEVER spoken infallibly on the subject; making NFP dogma.

Teaching with a capital T is that which comes from the Infallible Voice of the Magesterium…or Tradition traced to Jesus and His Apostles…NFP is neither.

 

[catherineajt]

The devil has been trying to destroy the Church since Day One. One way he does this is to try to decrease the number of Catholics and one way of doing that is thorugh contraception. Why are so many Catholics contracepting and having such small families these days?
A lot of Catholics are so worldly - they just seem to live like everyone else… (materialistic, etc…).
The devil is “protestan-tizing” the Catholic Church…
Do you agree?? Would like to hear testimonies… etc…

Define “small family”. To my mother in law, who had seven kids, our three-kid family is small. To my mother, who thinks two kids is the ideal, our family is “too big”.

One of the reasons we’re seriously considering using NFP to stay at three kids is that I have an autoimmune disorder which affects my ability to stop bleeding. During labor and delivery, this can be life-threatening. Should I continue having kids and risk leaving them without a mother, or stay with the three which God has blessed me with? Not everybody who remains at what you would consider a small family is doing so for purely selfish reasons.

As for materialistic…this is also subjective. We have a large house, on a good sized plot of land. Since we homeschool, this is important to our family, so the kids have room to run around and play. To some, it looks extravagant—plenty of people raise larger families in smaller homes. BUT…we don’t have SUVs or large vehicles, nor do we take vacations or wear fancy expensive clothing.

As for “protestantizing” the Catholic church, to a certain extent, I agree with you. I am always dismayed at renovated or new Roman Catholic churches which, inside, resemble a Protestant church…no crucifix, no images of Christ or Mary, just a big round “worship area”, chairs, no kneelers, and the music is just awful. But those are superificial areas, not doctrine. I don’t think the doctrine of the Church has been “protestantized”, just the practices in certain churches and areas. There is, as always, a backlash of sorts–the Latin Mass Communities are growing and more people are longing for the traditional services.

 

[Truly_Blessed]

Define “small family”. To my mother in law, who had seven kids, our three-kid family is small. To my mother, who thinks two kids is the ideal, our family is “too big”.

One of the reasons we’re seriously considering using NFP to stay at three kids is that I have an autoimmune disorder which affects my ability to stop bleeding. During labor and delivery, this can be life-threatening. Should I continue having kids and risk leaving them without a mother, or stay with the three which God has blessed me with? Not everybody who remains at what you would consider a small family is doing so for purely selfish reasons.

As for materialistic…this is also subjective. We have a large house, on a good sized plot of land. Since we homeschool, this is important to our family, so the kids have room to run around and play. To some, it looks extravagant—plenty of people raise larger families in smaller homes. BUT…we don’t have SUVs or large vehicles, nor do we take vacations or wear fancy expensive clothing.

As for “protestantizing” the Catholic church, to a certain extent, I agree with you. I am always dismayed at renovated or new Roman Catholic churches which, inside, resemble a Protestant church…no crucifix, no images of Christ or Mary, just a big round “worship area”, chairs, no kneelers, and the music is just awful. But those are superificial areas, not doctrine. I don’t think the doctrine of the Church has been “protestantized”, just the practices in certain churches and areas. There is, as always, a backlash of sorts–the Latin Mass Communities are growing and more people are longing for the traditional services.

Preach it, sister! My husband and I prayerfully and in consultation with our priest use NFP. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so! We have discerned with our priest that we have a good reason for doing so, but honestly, after reading some of these posts I feel like some posters think that short of the mother’s life, there is never a grave enough reason! And as far as the “always room for one more” attitude, this troubles me. Yes God will always provide, but just because you get pregnant does that always mean that God intended you to get pregnant? Can’t God sometimes prayerfully instruct the hearts of a couple to use NFP if in His wisdom he foresees a grave reason? Sometimes “God always provides” in the form of government assistance, the food shelf, etc. Wouldn’t it make sense that a couple in this situation prayerfully abstain from more children? THAT would truly be the selfless thing to do for the common good and for their family, would it not?

Couldn’t God likewise will a couple to abstain if there are issues of addiction, mental issues, etc? And wouldn’t a couple be doing wrong by willfully continuing to have as many children as they can?

There must be prudence on both sides-- a generous spirit in discerning whether or not to abstain AND an acknowledgment that adding to one’s family SHOULD be prayerfully discerned. We’re not rabbits that should simply reproduce as much as physically possible all the time. I’m not saying that anyone posting in this forum is advocating that, though some of the posts seem to come close.

 

[sacredcello]

It is teaching with a “t”, not with a “T”…

The Holy Father has NEVER spoken infallibly on the subject; making NFP dogma.

Teaching with a capital T is that which comes from the Infallible Voice of the Magesterium…or Tradition traced to Jesus and His Apostles…NFP is neither.

It is my understanding that the Holy Father has spoken infallibly from the chair, ex cathedra on only two occasions. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (1854) and the Assumption of Mary (1950).

This is not to say the Humanae Vitae should be eyed suspiciously, as it is from the universal ordinary magisterium of the Church. But, neither should the teaching on NFP be viewed with suspicion, either. It is also from the Holy Father. To quote John Paul II in his address at a family life conference on May 3, 1981: “Therefore the acts proper to conjugal life, ordered according to authentic human dignity, must be honored with the greatest reverence…All this is possible only if the virtue of conjugal chastity is seriously practiced.”

 

[maria29]

Again I say that NFP is Church-supported…it is NOT Church Teaching…not dogma, not doctrine…we are NOT obligated to agree with it.

Hurtful comments are just that…and are never of the Lord.
I will not defile this forum by stating the INNUMERABLE grotesque, rude, insulting, and accusatory comments that my husband and I OFTEN endure for having what is perceived as a large family. (Although, Catherine of Sienna’s parents would think it quite small, ha ha).

However, we ALSO receive smiles, hugs, prayers, and good wishes…which is what WE choose to give whenever we see ANY family…one child or fifteen…for each and all are gifts of God.

I pray for all of the posters during this Holy Week, that TRUTH may be theirs; and that those who suffer with anger, confusion, or defensiveness may be comforted and have Peace in the Passion of Christ.

And finally, the PURPOSE of marriage is the PROCREATION and EDUCATION of children.

“Be fruitful, multiply, and FILL THE EARTH”, said the Lord.

(Right now, the entire world population can fit (shoulder to shoulder) on an island in New Zealand)…not really filling the earth, are we?

PEACE
mom of ten

I tend to listen when the Church that I believe in writes about moral issues. I trust that they wouldn’t lead me astray. If I believe that the Pope is the head of the Church, how can I disregard something he writes?

Yes the purpose of marriage is procreation, but to do so thoughtfully. We have a moral duty and obligation to provide for the children we do have according to the Church. I am totally at peace with our choice right now that more children is not what God wants for us right now.

I don’t believe in putting God to the test. This always seems to have horrible consquences.

 

[saintbtg]

And as far as the “always room for one more” attitude, this troubles me. Yes God will always provide, but just because you get pregnant does that always mean that God intended you to get pregnant? Can’t God sometimes prayerfully instruct the hearts of a couple to use NFP if in His wisdom he foresees a grave reason? .

I completely agree you…

I like many of you come from a big family…eleven kids in all. I have one son and I am practicing NFP. His labor and deliver was very complicated and we both almost died. There is an increasing risk of the same thing happening again. Further more my son was just diagnosed with type 1 diabetes…you try convincing my husband to have more just because “there is always room for one more.”

I would rather have my one perfect son than risk not even being around to see him grow-up. If that makes me a bad Catholic than so be it.

As far some previous post about mothers working …what are your children doing while you are typing away online all day? I work part-time and bring my son with but in a month I am starting a new job that would but him in daycare for 15 hours a week. I am going to this because one income is NOT enough for our family. We are currently on Government subsidized housing, My son is on Government health insurance and we drive 12 year old cars. My putting my son in daycare is not to be able to buy him “this or that new thing” it is to make sure we can take care of him ourselves without the governments help. We are trying to make a good life for him…not an extravagant one.

For all of you who like to quote the bible…doesn’t the bible also say “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” Matthew 7:1-3 It is not up anyone else to tell a couple not to use NFP, to tell them that there is always room for one more. In this country, in this recession we DO NOT have room for one more…and my husband and I are the only people who should be able to decide that.

Multiply…fill the earth…what good is it to have an earth filled with starving children or insanely stressed out mothers. For some, having many children works and that is wonderful, but for others one, two, or four kids is more than enough…nothing good can come from making others(good Catholics no less) feel bad for using NFP.

 

[distracted]

Also, as to having one baby after another causing “trauma”…as I said, we are blessed with ten children…and six of those are aged seven and under…

first of all, it is so wonderful to hear of a family that lives what the Church teaches. Thank you so much for that… I am saddened (among other things) to always see how few young people there are in our world these days, but especially how few are in the Church (@ Mass)! Everywhere you look there are old people and very few young ones…

I can’t help but think the government is going to get even “harder” about this “problem”. In Oregon, there is dr-assisted suicide, used, i know, to encourage people into taking their lives (for the benefit of society)… Nazism… History repeats itself…

Also: I don’t know who said that having one child after another causes “trauma” but i think that is nonsense. What causes trauma is mistreating children - which can happen in any size family…
Frankly… my feeling /thought is that OK, maybe the child in a large family doesn’t get as much undivided attention from parents as an only child would, but he/she gets attention from siblings… which is just as important… & in some ways, better… Siblings are our closest relatives… (genetically).
Another thing is that “only” children & those w/ few siblings usually (@ least sometimes) get too much individual attention, & can therefore, become very spoiled and self-indulgent…

I think a lot of children/teens these days are verey spoiled…

& the indulged, undisciplined ones are the ones who are shooting their clasemates, etc…

Hmmm… has anyone here ever heard of a member of a large family doing that kind of thing? I haven’t…

 

[distracted]

Well said!

What made you join the Church?

What were you before you joined?

I heard there are 60,000 people joining the Church this Easter (in the U.S.)… That is such a heart-warming thought.

 

[saintbtg]

Also: I don’t know who said that having one child after another causes “trauma” but i think that is nonsense. What causes trauma is mistreating children - which can happen in any size family…
Frankly… my feeling /thought is that OK, maybe the child in a large family doesn’t get as much undivided attention from parents as an only child would, but he/she gets attention from siblings… which is just as important… & in some ways, better… Siblings are our closest relatives… (genetically). QUOTE]

yeah, children in small family can be spoiled with excessive attention from the parents…however, when families get too large and grow beyond parental control often times the older children find themselves RAISING the younger children. Sibling attention is a good but should never replace parental attention.

I am one of the oldest of a large family and have first hand experience in what I am writing about. Now that all the “older” kids are married and out of the house the younger kids are completely out of control. Also, I had a friend from a large family who’s parents were very financially blessed but still the mother could not give the attention needed for each child. therefore, when she felt she needed to remedy this, she would take them on extravagant trip or shopping sprees…isn’t that a form of spoiling???

 

[Truly_Blessed]

Absolutely true. And proof that there are nonmaterial grave reasons for using NFP. Even the financially blessed may find that they need a break from having more kids to truly devote themselves to the kids they have. Quality mommy-child time should not consist of “thanks for raising your little brothers, now go buy yourself something pretty.”

 

[luvmykids]

Absolutely true. And proof that there are nonmaterial grave reasons for using NFP. Even the financially blessed may find that they need a break from having more kids to truly devote themselves to the kids they have. Quality mommy-child time should not consist of “thanks for raising your little brothers, now go buy yourself something pretty.”

What this is proof of is that just having as many children as God will give you doesn’t automatically make you unselfish. You need to continue to live out your vocation as a mother. If this mother had time and patience to take children on shopping sprees and extravagant trips, she should have been doing other things to pay attention to the children. This was HER choice to do this. She wasn’t doing what she should have been doing, and not because she couldn’t, but because she chose not to!!

This is not proof that she shouldn’t have had those kids!

Sounds like a bunch of attempted excuses among those trying to make a case for limiting family size.

I barely see anyone with the family size of more than 2 or 3 children in Church. I have a hard time believing all these people have mental health issues, medical problems, addictions, etc…

I know these things do occur, and certain people do have these things going on, which is why I would never outright judge someone not knowing their circumstances. I am speaking in general terms, as I have met people who like I said, they feel the need to let me know why they didn’t have anymore as soon as they see my family.

I do not think you can compare us to rabbits!!! Rabbits do not have eternal souls as humans do. We are made in the image and likeness of God. God is the giver of life, and just because we have sex, God does not have to create another human being.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.”(Jeremiah1:5).

“Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be
His”(Galatians 1:15).

“For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb…Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be”(Psalm 139:13, 16).

“Your hands shaped me and made me…Did You not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life”(Job 10:8-12).

“This is what the Lord says-- He who made you, who formed you in the womb”(Isaiah 44:2).

“Children are a gift from God”(Psalm 127:3).

 

[mom_of_ten]

I completely agree you…

I like many of you come from a big family…eleven kids in all. I have one son and I am practicing NFP. His labor and deliver was very complicated and we both almost died. There is an increasing risk of the same thing happening again. Further more my son was just diagnosed with type 1 diabetes…you try convincing my husband to have more just because “there is always room for one more.”

I would rather have my one perfect son than risk not even being around to see him grow-up. If that makes me a bad Catholic than so be it.

As far some previous post about mothers working …what are your children doing while you are typing away online all day? I work part-time and bring my son with but in a month I am starting a new job that would but him in daycare for 15 hours a week. I am going to this because one income is NOT enough for our family. We are currently on Government subsidized housing, My son is on Government health insurance and we drive 12 year old cars. My putting my son in daycare is not to be able to buy him “this or that new thing” it is to make sure we can take care of him ourselves without the governments help. We are trying to make a good life for him…not an extravagant one.

For all of you who like to quote the bible…doesn’t the bible also say “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” Matthew 7:1-3 It is not up anyone else to tell a couple not to use NFP, to tell them that there is always room for one more. In this country, in this recession we DO NOT have room for one more…and my husband and I are the only people who should be able to decide that.

Multiply…fill the earth…what good is it to have an earth filled with starving children or insanely stressed out mothers. For some, having many children works and that is wonderful, but for others one, two, or four kids is more than enough…nothing good can come from making others(good Catholics no less) feel bad for using NFP.

---

It is the LORD with WHOM you should direct your apparent disagreement with the words, “Multiply, Fill the Earth”…for those are HIS words…not mine. Peace be with you.

I encourage all to read the story of Gianna Beretta Molla.

Scripture speaks AGAINST abstinence in a marriage…“Do not withhold yourselves from one another except when called to a time of prayer; and then quickly return to each other, lest ye be tempted”…NFP supporters often change the words, “called to a time of prayer” to “called to a time of abstinence” when quoting this Scripture…however, they are changing the Bible’s wording…it doesn’t say abstinence. Conversely, it speaks that couples should never abstain, unless called to a time of prayer…meaning the purpose of the abstinence is prayer…not trying to escape pregnancy.

God knows when mothers are ill (I myself suffer from EXTREME diabetes in pregnancy)…He knows that His children are starving…He knows that parents are tired…He knows that bills are hard to pay…He knows…He ALLOWS suffering (brought into the world through SIN, NOT having children)…and YET…he continues to bless people with babies.

One poster asked if “just because someone is pregnant, does that mean God Willed it” ??? OF COURSE…there can be NO life without Him WILLING it…He does not merely ALLOW life…HE CREATES IT…and invites us to take part in HIS creations! He did NOT hand over power to choose …He handed over a CHOICE to be OPEN to life or NOT.

Please do not call people rabbits…this is the sort of insulting behavior of which I alluded to in a previous post. I have been called “rabbit” in public…in FRONT of my children. These things are unspeakable…and VERY uncharitable.

 

[Truly_Blessed]

What this is proof of is that just having as many children as God will give you doesn’t automatically make you unselfish. You need to continue to live out your vocation as a mother. If this mother had time and patience to take children on shopping sprees and extravagant trips, she should have been doing other things to pay attention to the children. This was HER choice to do this. She wasn’t doing what she should have been doing, and not because she couldn’t, but because she chose not to!!

This is not proof that she shouldn’t have had those kids!

**"That was my point! Not that she “shouldn’t have had (past tense) those kids.” But that she needs to re-examine and re-engage her vocation as a mother… and until she has a handle on why she makes the choices she does, ABSTAIN FROM HAVING MORE KIDS! Just temporarily. But, no it makes much more sense to tell her (who, btw, in my post was a hypothetical woman) "go ahead, for some reason you like shopping with your kids and taking trips, but let the older kids do all the dressing, cooking for, cleaning, homework with, etc. the younger kids. Sure, go have more! "

I would never, EVER tell anyone “you shouldn’t have had those kids!” **

Sounds like a bunch of attempted excuses among those trying to make a case for limiting family size.

I barely see anyone with the family size of more than 2 or 3 children in Church. I have a hard time believing all these people have mental health issues, medical problems, addictions, etc…

I know these things do occur, and certain people do have these things going on, which is why I would never outright judge someone not knowing their circumstances. I am speaking in general terms, as I have met people who like I said, they feel the need to let me know why they didn’t have anymore as soon as they see my family.

I do not think you can compare us to rabbits!!! Rabbits do not have eternal souls as humans do. We are made in the image and likeness of God. God is the giver of life, and just because we have sex, God does not have to create another human being.

** Which is exactly why I said we are NOT rabbits! For all of those reasons! But on the same note, you cannot say that everytime two humans have sex, God intends for them to get pregnant if infact they do get pregnant. There can be cases in which God perhaps will for two people to abstain from sex during fertile times, and is trying to tell those people, “hey, I love you both, but please PLEASE PLEASE use NFP until your drug habit is under control!” Just because two people decide to get pregnant doesn’t mean it’s God’s will! **

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you."(Jeremiah1:5).

“Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be
His”(Galatians 1:15).

“For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb…Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be”(Psalm 139:13, 16).

“Your hands shaped me and made me…Did You not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life”(Job 10:8-12).

“This is what the Lord says-- He who made you, who formed you in the womb”(Isaiah 44:2).

“Children are a gift from God”(Psalm 127:3)

Sing it, sister! I agree wholeheartedly with all of these things! And for that reason, discernment needs to happen in both whether people abstain from getting pregnant via NFP AND whether they try to conceive a baby!

 

[mom_of_ten]

Spouses are attracted to each other during the fertile time because it is the HOLY SPIRIT calling them together in their vocation and purpose of the procreation and education of children.

Get pregnant without God intending there to be new life?!?!?
This sounds BLASPHEMOUS!!! How DARE one claim that life can be created without the Will of GOD?!? Since when can human beings create something out of nothing?!? That is WHY GOD IS GOD!!! This is outrageous.

 

[distracted]

yeah, children in small family can be spoiled with excessive attention from the parents…however, when families get too large and grow beyond parental control often times the older children find themselves RAISING the younger children.

Done the right way, i don’t see the problem here. It is GOOD for children to learn how to “parent” (care for) their siblings, because for one thing, they will (probably) some day have to parent their own children… they learn how to care for another human being, something i wish everyone had learned… They learn empathy, etc.

Sibling attention is a good but should never replace parental attention.

I don’t feel it is impossible for a family to be balanced in this regard…

I am one of the oldest of a large family… Now that all the “older” kids are married and out of the house the younger kids are completely out of control.

I know of situations like this also. But that is the fault of the parents who don’t discipline well… younger ones should not be treated differently than older ones… Of course, since parents are fallible human beings, it is giong to probably happen more often than not… but anyway…

I had a friend from a large family who’s parents were very financially blessed but still the mother could not give the attention needed for each child. therefore, when she felt she needed to remedy this, she would take them on extravagant trip or shopping sprees…isn’t that a form of spoiling???

Yes… she should remedy it by making time for her children, time to talk with them, listen to them, etc… not buy them things.

In any case, Life on Planet Earth is imperfect. No one is ever going to create a perfect family situation no matter what. I hate to sound like a defeatist, but why bother striving for perfection when it doesn’t exist.? I think people should just have as many children as God gives them (valid Catholic marriage, etc…) and trust him with all the details… If the couple prays a lot, i believe they will end up having a healthy family… & if things go wrong… well, that’s life… that’s being human (sinful)… @ some point, after doing one’s best… one needs to trust God about such things…
It seems that somewhere along the line, we Americans got the notion that “paradise” (or the equivelent) can somehow be achieved on this earth… I think that we actually think that unconsciously…
but sometimes imperfection is perfection… as it were, because imperfection leads to unhappiness & unhappiness leads to our searching for the Only One who can make us happy…
We wouldn’t need him if we had “everything” else… (Or we wouldn’t FEEL we needed Him, i should say…)… and without Him, we end up in Hell…