The Devil

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snoopy4211966

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I am trying to come to terms about who or what the Devil really is … some people I talk to believe he is a real (for lack of a better phrase) fallen angel -which is what I was taught as a kid - many people today seem to think of him more as a “force” that came about through “free choice” human nature etc…
I am not sure what the Church teaches - and it is not a subject that most priests seem eager to discuss. I know there are a lot more pressing issues - but I am trying to figure out if there are really demons out there (as in the prayer to St Michael) of if it is more of a force (not just one being trying to screw us all up) hope that made sense and hope this is the right place to ask (I’new here) so if it is not - could some one direct me to the right place? Thanks
 
Welcome to CAF snoopy. The CC teachers that the Satan is a fallen angel.
CCC 391-392:
Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.”

Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.” The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.
CCC 414:
Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.
 
Were Satan ( the adversary) just a force and not an intellect, it would mean God created evil and purposely placed hinderance to our free wiil in the way of our salvation and relationship with Him.

And it seems a little too circular to say the Devil is a force that emanates from our free choices; I’m free to choose right or wrong, I choose wrong, which creates an evil force, which causes me to choose wrong again… So how did that 1st wrong choice come about without that a preceding force caused by wrong choice?

But I guess that would put more personal culpability back into the phrase ’ The Devil made me do it’ 😃
 
The bible speaks of Satan literally – as Christ said, he was a liar from the beginning. One of, if not THE greatest of his lies is to convince people that he doesn’t exist.

There’s a lot more to be said here, but consider Ephesians 6:10-12
10 Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power.
11 Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.
Note verse 12. He’s writing literally about Satan and his minions – the evil spirits of the heavens.
 
Satan being a force, seems to imply that he was created evil by God. God doesn’t will evil. Satan also being a force seems to be more new age spiritualism without religion ****.

“Everything… is like… a force… dude and… the force… is like the Force…”

This is what I think of, when I think of stuff like that.

Pax
 
I am trying to come to terms about who or what the Devil really is … some people I talk to believe he is a real (for lack of a better phrase) fallen angel -which is what I was taught as a kid - many people today seem to think of him more as a “force” that came about through “free choice” human nature etc…
I am not sure what the Church teaches - and it is not a subject that most priests seem eager to discuss. I know there are a lot more pressing issues - but I am trying to figure out if there are really demons out there (as in the prayer to St Michael) of if it is more of a force (not just one being trying to screw us all up) hope that made sense and hope this is the right place to ask (I’new here) so if it is not - could some one direct me to the right place? Thanks
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

VII “BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL”

2850 The last petition to our Father is also included in Jesus’ prayer: "I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one."163 It touches each of us personally, but it is always “we” who pray, in communion with the whole Church, for the deliverance of the whole human family. the Lord’s Prayer continually opens us to the range of God’s economy of salvation. Our interdependence in the drama of sin and death is turned into solidarity in the Body of Christ, the "communion of saints."164

2851 In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. the devil (dia-bolos) is the one who “throws himself across” God’s plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ.

2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is "the deceiver of the whole world."165 Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be "freed from the corruption of sin and death."166 Now "we know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one."167

The Lord who has taken away your sin and pardoned your faults also protects you and keeps you from the wiles of your adversary the devil, so that the enemy, who is accustomed to leading into sin, may not surprise you. One who entrusts himself to God does not dread the devil. "If God is for us, who is against us?"168

2853 Victory over the "prince of this world"169 was won once for all at the Hour when Jesus freely gave himself up to death to give us his life. This is the judgment of this world, and the prince of this world is "cast out."170 "He pursued the woman"171 but had no hold on her: the new Eve, “full of grace” of the Holy Spirit, is preserved from sin and the corruption of death (the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of the Most Holy Mother of God, Mary, ever virgin). "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring."172 Therefore the Spirit and the Church pray: "Come, Lord Jesus,"173 since his coming will deliver us from the Evil One.

2854 When we ask to be delivered from the Evil One, we pray as well to be freed from all evils, present, past, and future, of which he is the author or instigator. In this final petition, the Church brings before the Father all the distress of the world. Along with deliverance from the evils that overwhelm humanity, she implores the precious gift of peace and the grace of perseverance in expectation of Christ’s return By praying in this way, she anticipates in humility of faith the gathering together of everyone and everything in him who has “the keys of Death and Hades,” who "is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."174

Deliver us, Lord, we beseech you, from every evil and grant us peace in our day, so that aided by your mercy we might be ever free from sin and protected from all anxiety, as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.175

2864 In the last petition, “but deliver us from evil,” Christians pray to God with the Church to show forth the victory, already won by Christ, over the “ruler of this world,” Satan, the angel personally opposed to God and to his plan of salvation.

163 ⇒ Jn 17:15.

164 Cf. RP 16.

165 ⇒ Jn 8:44; ⇒ Rev 12:9.

166 Roman Missal, Eucharistic Prayer IV, 125.

167 ⇒ 1 Jn 5:18-19.

168 St. Ambrose, De Sacr. 5, 4, 30: PL 16, 454; cf. ⇒ Rom 8:31.

169 ⇒ Jn 14:30.

170 ⇒ Jn 12:31; ⇒ Rev 12:10.

171 ⇒ Rev 12:13-16.

172 ⇒ Rev 12:17.

173 ⇒ Rev 22:17,20.

174 ⇒ Rev 1:8, ⇒ 18; cf. ⇒ Rev 1:4; ⇒ Eph 1:10.

175 Roman Missal, Embolism after the Lord’s Prayer, 126: Libera nos, quaesumus, Domine, ab omnibus malis, da propitius pacem in diebus nostris, ut, ope misericordiae tuae adiuti, et a peccato simus semper liberi, et ab omni perturbatione securi: expectantes beatam spem et adventum Salvatoris nostri Iesu Christi.
 
I am trying to come to terms about who or what the Devil really is … some people I talk to believe he is a real (for lack of a better phrase) fallen angel -which is what I was taught as a kid - many people today seem to think of him more as a “force” that came about through “free choice” human nature etc…
I am not sure what the Church teaches - and it is not a subject that most priests seem eager to discuss. I know there are a lot more pressing issues - but I am trying to figure out if there are really demons out there (as in the prayer to St Michael) of if it is more of a force (not just one being trying to screw us all up) hope that made sense and hope this is the right place to ask (I’new here) so if it is not - could some one direct me to the right place? Thanks
Satan is the first angel, and angels are persons with personal (individual) free will and intellect, who created evil, by his disobedience (choosing not-God over God).

The other demons are other angels who followed his lead.

Since angels are not allowed to change their minds, those who fell (who chose to cling to not-God) are eternally committed to that decision.

These all-too-real persons, the demons, can only tempt us human persons to sin and can’t MAKE us do anything, and with the help of the angels we can overcome any demon or group of demons.

Those things which are sinful which we cling onto are the masks of the demons, called “idols” or “false gods”, which they use to lead us by trickery, persuasion and temptation into chronically choosing not-God instead of God, which if we hold onto without repentance into death will drag us to hell.
 
CatsAndDogs.,.,

Something you said confuses me,🤷

Satan is the first angel, and angels are persons with personal (individual) free will and intellect, who created evil, by his disobedience (choosing not-God over God).

I thought only God could and DID Create? This statement you made interests me because my husband believes that God actually DID create evil so that we may have Free Will inwhich to choose God over Satan. As my husband put it,“how can we choose to love God if we do not have a choice in the first place?”

Please forgive me if this seems like a tread derailment.

As per the original question. I believe that Satan is an Angel, fallen in nature who hates God to the utmost (again, where did the hate originate from as I was under the assumption that nothing evil or bad entered the world untill Adam and Eve ate of the fruit) and his only goal is to take as many souls to hell as he can while he has the chance before Jesus returns in Glory.

St. Michael pray for us:gopray2:
 
CatsAndDogs.,.,

Something you said confuses me,🤷

Satan is the first angel, and angels are persons with personal (individual) free will and intellect, who created evil, by his disobedience (choosing not-God over God).

I thought only God could and DID Create?
Only God creates “from nothing” (ex nihilo).

Evil (qua evil, AS evil) is the result of a choice. It is to choose not-God over God.

It is a “secondary creation”. It is a rearrangement of God’s creation, just as an automobile is a rearrangement of materials into a new secondary creation.

God created all things good. He shared free will, which is not a creation of God but “of God”, with persons and those creations (creatures) perverted good into evil.
This statement you made interests me because my husband believes that God actually DID create evil so that we may have Free Will in which to choose God over Satan.
Your husband has it backwards. God created free will which has the subsequent consequence of allowing evil to be secondarily sub-created.

You have to remember: Man was not the first sub-creator of evil. The initial sub-creation of evil was satan’s doing!
As my husband put it,“how can we choose to love God if we do not have a choice in the first place?”
Please forgive me if this seems like a tread derailment.
As per the original question. I believe that Satan is an Angel, fallen in nature who hates God to the utmost (again, where did the hate originate from as I was under the assumption that nothing evil or bad entered the world untill Adam and Eve ate of the fruit)
As said above, satan was the first of the fallen. Well before man.
and his only goal is to take as many souls to hell as he can while he has the chance before Jesus returns in Glory.
St. Michael pray for us :gopray2:
Satan doesn’t hate God, because he knows precisely what God is (pure love which is not unlovable). Satan hates the fact that he can’t be WITH God because of his irrevocable choice of “self love” over actual love (God).

Satan, and the rest of the demons, simply exemplify that old saying in the extreme:

Misery loves company.
 
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