The devil's concubine

[CB_Catholic]

St. Thomas Aquinas wasn’t always right, but he also wasn’t always wrong.

I would go as far as to say that Incubus and a Succubus, due to having been reported often online when people suffer night attacks, are real. But I think these things can be reasoned to the ridiculous - Incubus being able to collect human secretion; reason being, that for life to begin there must be a time limit for the life-span of male fluid, and for it to survive for longer in order to be useful, would need a suitable environment to survive. Because such evil spirits are pure spirit then I don’t see how they could safely store what they gather; moreover, I don’t see how Succubus could then turn into an Incubus, that the collected fluid could work in its own form to further process impregnation. If the Incubus form was built in such a way then it could surely have its own fluid.

I think instead, that they are one and the same, not two separate demons. And I think their names are just fancy names for demons attempting to find a way into a person’s consciousness. When they are given room when persisting in luring the person into giving in more, they make themselves appear attractive, but the outcome would end up being satan himself or a powerful fallen angel, and would not really look like what they appear to be to the person who is being seduced - not nice. Maybe leading to full on possession, eventually, through stages of increasing seriousness.

The only way that I could see impregnation as possible would be if demons could actually take form. I think this is possible. We know that satan can appear. But for their inner workings - they might not have any - to work as a human biological system is a bit unlikely. It is more likely that they feed off the lustful desires of the human. They could enter into lust with the sinner’s desire. But I still don’t think this would breed more demons, for practical reasons!

Incubi and Succubi are what people, who did not know the science behind it, mistook for sleep paralysis. They do not exist. It has been proven (and also experienced by me and others I know personally and thousands of research subjects) that when a person is in this state, which is fairly common, the sensation of not being alone, or feeling a “being” on top of your body, or trying to strangle you, or induce sexual arousal, or hearing voices, or seeing things can be present. There is much scientific study on sleep disorders, including sleep paralysis, and doing a google search will bring up this information.

St. Thomas and the people in the past did not have access to this scientific knowledge–they came up with the only explanation that made sense to them, because the things that can be experienced during sleep paralysis seem so real. Now there is a logical and rational scientific explanation for this, and when there is, that is where a Catholic should look to first for an explanation. That is how the Church operates in investigating any thing which may or may not be supernatural.

 

[ChibiViolet]

Incubi and Succubi are what people, who did not know the science behind it, mistook for sleep paralysis. They do not exist. It has been proven (and also experienced by me and others I know personally and thousands of research subjects) that when a person is in this state, which is fairly common, the sensation of not being alone, or feeling a “being” on top of your body, or trying to strangle you, or induce sexual arousal, or hearing voices, or seeing things can be present. There is much scientific study on sleep disorders, including sleep paralysis, and doing a google search will bring up this information.

St. Thomas and the people in the past did not have access to this scientific knowledge–they came up with the only explanation that made sense to them, because the things that can be experienced during sleep paralysis seem so real. Now there is a logical and rational scientific explanation for this, and when there is, that is where a Catholic should look to first for an explanation. That is how the Church operates in investigating any thing which may or may not be supernatural.

Well, it’s not a part of doctrine to believe in them or not, though to say they are disproved is inaccurate. I believe in both sleep-paralysis and demonic sexual attacks and such…of course, not all of the occurrences of human-demon sex are attacks. I researched this as the question as to whether or not it was possible puzzled me and made me really want to know. It was idle curiosity and I should not have read from the website I did, as it was very clearly Satanic. (No, I read about no exact rituals as I did not wish to.)

 

[friardchips]

Well, it’s not a part of doctrine to believe in them or not, though to say they are disproved is inaccurate. I believe in both sleep-paralysis and demonic sexual attacks and such…of course, not all of the occurrences of human-demon sex are attacks. I researched this as the question as to whether or not it was possible puzzled me and made me really want to know. It was idle curiosity and I should not have read from the website I did, as it was very clearly Satanic. (No, I read about no exact rituals as I did not wish to.)

You did what many do. I think one of the aims of demonic interference is to get Christians to start obsessing over them (not saying you were obsessing, but this is what these sites can lead to). But certainly, if one is concerned about something, then it is natural also to try and research the issue.

I agree that it is not disproved and on the contrary would say that if demonic activity is accepted to be real in the Roman Catholic Church, which it is, then these types of demonic attack are, more than likely, true.

 

[friardchips]

Incubi and Succubi are what people, who did not know the science behind it, mistook for sleep paralysis. They do not exist. It has been proven (and also experienced by me and others I know personally and thousands of research subjects) that when a person is in this state, which is fairly common, the sensation of not being alone, or feeling a “being” on top of your body, or trying to strangle you, or induce sexual arousal, or hearing voices, or seeing things can be present. There is much scientific study on sleep disorders, including sleep paralysis, and doing a google search will bring up this information.

St. Thomas and the people in the past did not have access to this scientific knowledge–they came up with the only explanation that made sense to them, because the things that can be experienced during sleep paralysis seem so real. Now there is a logical and rational scientific explanation for this, and when there is, that is where a Catholic should look to first for an explanation. That is how the Church operates in investigating any thing which may or may not be supernatural.

Yes, there is such a thing as “sleep paralysis” but this is not always necessarily disconnected from demonic interference, and actual cases of demonic obsession, oppression and possession would begin with such attacks that are over and above the biological level of run-of-the-mill sleep paralysis. It is a mistake to rationalise the spiritual realms, IMO. And better to stay guarded knowing who our enemy is. St. Thomas Aquinus would not have gone to the extents of describing demonic activity in such detail just because of sleep paralysis - during sleep paralysis, one as a rule feels extreme fear, but not sensations equating to actual physical intrusion; to the seduced party, the intrusion is not always fear-based.

 

[ChibiViolet]

You did what many do. I think one of the aims of demonic interference is to get Christians to start obsessing over them (not saying you were obsessing, but this is what these sites can lead to). But certainly, if one is concerned about something, then it is natural also to try and research the issue.

I agree that it is not disproved and on the contrary would say that if demonic activity is accepted to be real in the Roman Catholic Church, which it is, then these types of demonic attack are, more than likely, true.

Well, when on the site, my head felt very light and for a while afterwards I had a horrible though relatively minor demon obsession, which, was not to say that I obsessed, but that a demon obsessed me; this is a form of demonic attack, the goal of which was, to lead into you can imagine which mortal sin…by praying A LOT, it went away. I remember the exact moment it went away, when I vowed to God never to do as the demon was compelling me to.

 

[friardchips]

Well, when on the site, my head felt very light and for a while afterwards I had a horrible though relatively minor demon obsession, which, was not to say that I obsessed, but that a demon obsessed me; this is a form of demonic attack, the goal of which was, to lead into you can imagine which mortal sin…by praying A LOT, it went away. I remember the exact moment it went away, when I vowed to God never to do as the demon was compelling me to.

I wouldn’t ever make vows, to be honest, but certainly to apologise and ask for help is sensible.

It depends how far down the road you went. But do be careful because it is essentially tantamount to playing with satan. There is loads of this stuff around on the internet that leads to the same: New Age and some western Hindu sites can be invites (don’t get me started on the subject of Yoga) as well as the obvious straight-down satanic ones. Certain sins can lead to such activity very easily so blessings from priests are a very good idea.

 

[friardchips]

Also, to note: demonic attacks don’t only happen when people are experiencing sleep paralysis.

 

[mikekle]

The original post was about a possible son of satan, the Nephilim do not fit this bill, they would be hybrid offspring of demons and human females, I believe the poster was asking about the actual son of satan, Ive seen this idea in many movies, some they call him mammon, (which I believe is actually money, so?).

It is a popular idea in Hollywood, but Ive never seen any biblical reference to a literal offspring of satan himself, I dont even think any non-biblical older texts suggest such a thing. I think this is probably just something from Hollywood.

 

[friardchips]

The original post was about a possible son of satan, the Nephilim do not fit this bill, they would be hybrid offspring of demons and human females, I believe the poster was asking about the actual son of satan,

Well, if other demons can have offspring, then it is more likely a literal interpretation of an actual manifestation of an anti-Christ in person, is possible. I, however, think that to suggest this is a real possibility, is false. So, I’d agree with you. I think Nephilim were fallen angels who tempted people to sin. In actual fact, it might be that the interpretation of “offspring” is incorrect, anyway. Because at that point in history, the Jews did not possibly think of fallen angels in the way we understand them - in the way we understand fallen angels to have come about i.e:- that any angel who chose, or any person who dies obstinately in mortal sin, is, in a sense, “offspring” of satan! Because of the choice. So fallen angels could simply be the name Hebrews gave, to what we know to be, fallen angels.

…Ive seen this idea in many movies, some they call him mammon, (which I believe is actually money, so?).

It is a popular idea in Hollywood, but Ive never seen any biblical reference to a literal offspring of satan himself, I dont even think any non-biblical older texts suggest such a thing. I think this is probably just something from Hollywood.

So what would you say to the interpretation of the anti-Christ, in post #16? (I would say it links with your post in some sense or other).

 

[mikekle]

Well, if other demons can have offspring, then it is more likely a literal interpretation of an actual manifestation of an anti-Christ in person, is possible. I, however, think that to suggest this is a real possibility, is false. So, I’d agree with you. I think Nephilim were fallen angels who tempted people to sin. In actual fact, it might be that the interpretation of “offspring” is incorrect, anyway. Because at that point in history, the Jews did not possibly think of fallen angels in the way we understand them - in the way we understand fallen angels to have come about i.e:- that any angel who chose, or any person who dies obstinately in mortal sin, is, in a sense, “offspring” of satan! Because of the choice. So fallen angels could simply be the name Hebrews gave, to what we know to be, fallen angels.

So what would you say to the interpretation of the anti-Christ, in post #16? (I would say it links with your post in some sense or other).

Well, I dont believe the antichrist is literally going to be the son of satan, I think this person will be born 100% human, but it will probably be well known at their birth, that they are indeed the antichrist, not by man, but known by satan, demons, God. Satan will assist this person thru out their lives, they will have supernatural abilities, probably even at a young age, Id assume he will be constantly groomed thru out life for what they are to do later in life.

I do differ on your opinion of the Nephilim though, I believe the fallen angels fell to earth, saw the beauty of the women, and since they were spirit, they could not do anything, so they possessed the human men, who then had sex with the females, thru this ‘special’ possession, they were able to pass some ‘demonic material’ to the offspring, I do believe these offspring, the Nephilim were indeed giants, there is just too much literal descriptions of them in many different verses/books.

However I do NOT believe they were actually as tall as Enoch states, (450ft tall), I think they were closer to 12-25ft tall, thats more realistic imo, (plus, it matches size of the artifacts)I know they specifically state they were so many Jewish Els, which does come out to around 450ft, but I doubt such a being could exist, they would have to eat constantly, and burn ridiculous amounts of energy in just walking…if they were truly this tall, they had some supernatural help!

A priest at my parish who has a PHD explained it the best I have heard, he said the Nephilim were born in Satans attempt to corrupt the human seed, so Jesus could not be born, but God bested him with the virgin birth, this is one reason the Nephilims existence is kept hidden by the mainstream, Satan, who rules our world right now, does not want anyone to know of these things, as it proves his existence and involvement, he prefers to go about things nowadays in less ‘in your face’ ways.

 

[friardchips]

Well, I dont believe the antichrist is literally going to be the son of satan, I think this person will be born 100% human, but it will probably be well known at their birth, that they are indeed the antichrist, not by man, but known by satan, demons, God. Satan will assist this person thru out their lives, they will have supernatural abilities, probably even at a young age, Id assume he will be constantly groomed thru out life for what they are to do later in life.

I do differ on your opinion of the Nephilim though, I believe the fallen angels fell to earth, saw the beauty of the women, and since they were spirit, they could not do anything, so they possessed the human men, who then had sex with the females, thru this ‘special’ possession, they were able to pass some ‘demonic material’ to the offspring, I do believe these offspring, the Nephilim were indeed giants, there is just too much literal descriptions of them in many different verses/books.

However I do NOT believe they were actually as tall as Enoch states, (450ft tall), I think they were closer to 12-25ft tall, thats more realistic imo, (plus, it matches size of the artifacts)I know they specifically state they were so many Jewish Els, which does come out to around 450ft, but I doubt such a being could exist, they would have to eat constantly, and burn ridiculous amounts of energy in just walking…if they were truly this tall, they had some supernatural help!

A priest at my parish who has a PHD explained it the best I have heard, he said the Nephilim were born in Satans attempt to corrupt the human seed, so Jesus could not be born, but God bested him with the virgin birth, this is one reason the Nephilims existence is kept hidden by the mainstream, Satan, who rules our world right now, does not want anyone to know of these things, as it proves his existence and involvement, he prefers to go about things nowadays in less ‘in your face’ ways.

Okay, well I appreciate your thoughts on this, thank you. St. David is reported to have killed a giant (?).

I think a spawn of satan is unlikely. Reason being, that if this was possible, he could have made lots of spawns. In fact, if this was the case, he could have done away with bothering to tempt Adam and Eve and instead just reproduced. I think there is no actual spawn of satan but rather his influence overpowers many to live according to the culture of death.

Another reason, is because satan is not our Creator. He is only a fallen angel. Of course, he has power, but it is limited. What this means, is that he has no divine power to reproduce and no human functions to have intercourse. So he can only influence through people, not pro-create! When a baby comes into being, it is through a natural process preceded by grace. satan has not the grace to bring forth life and so he could not even try. He can never bring forth life but only death. So the concept is a non-starter!

Think of people who have physical relations outside of marriage, and who are maybe also criminals, why are their offspring not considered satan’s spawn? They are not; they are most definitely human. Why are they allowed these mistakes? Because humans have a chance to change. But satan made his choice; so, for satan to make a child, he would have to influence and bring forth life himself, directly. This is genetically impossible and spiritually impossible. He is a murderer not life-giver. He has no grace to perform such an action.

I am sure angels don’t have genitalia because they have no need for them. Genitalia are physical attributes for pro-creation in the physical world, and not the Heavenly realms and dominions. Angels were never meant to reproduce, and if that is so, then did fallen angels grow some after they fell?! Of course not. They can’t because it is impossible. Every animal and mammal, in life, all has a purpose for being, and their physical ligaments allow them to survive in their habitat. The same goes for our environment - all has a reason for being in the eco-system. So angels who live in the heavenly realm would have no genitalia because they would not need any!

People attribute too much power to satan. He has not enough power to achieve such things. He can only influence, not create. Only our Creator, can create!

 

[mikekle]

Okay, well I appreciate your thoughts on this, thank you. St. David is reported to have killed a giant (?).

I think a spawn of satan is unlikely. Reason being, that if this was possible, he could have made lots of spawns. In fact, if this was the case, he could have done away with bothering to tempt Adam and Eve and instead just reproduced. I think there is no actual spawn of satan but rather his influence overpowers many to live according to the culture of death.

Another reason, is because satan is not our Creator. He is only a fallen angel. Of course, he has power, but it is limited. What this means, is that he has no divine power to reproduce and no human functions to have intercourse. So he can only influence through people, not pro-create! When a baby comes into being, it is through a natural process preceded by grace. satan has not the grace to bring forth life and so he could not even try. He can never bring forth life but only death. So the concept is a non-starter!

Think of people who have physical relations outside of marriage, and who are maybe also criminals, why are their offspring not considered satan’s spawn? They are not; they are most definitely human. Why are they allowed these mistakes? Because humans have a chance to change. But satan made his choice; so, for satan to make a child, he would have to influence and bring forth life himself, directly. This is genetically impossible and spiritually impossible. He is a murderer not life-giver. He has no grace to perform such an action.

I am sure angels don’t have genitalia because they have no need for them. Genitalia are physical attributes for pro-creation in the physical world, and not the Heavenly realms and dominions. Angels were never meant to reproduce, and if that is so, then did fallen angels grow some after they fell?! Of course not. They can’t because it is impossible. Every animal and mammal, in life, all has a purpose for being, and their physical ligaments allow them to survive in their habitat. The same goes for our environment - all has a reason for being in the eco-system. So angels who live in the heavenly realm would have no genitalia because they would not need any!

People attribute too much power to satan. He has not enough power to achieve such things. He can only influence, not create. Only our Creator, can create!

You are right…angels have no genitals, they are not sexual, but in the case of the fallen angels, they did possess human men (this is how they did this), keep in mind too, this was a special event, Im not claiming to know the logistics of how they actually passed on demonic material to the human women, maybe they possessed both the men and women…, IDK, Im sure they possessed human men though, but there was a little more going on when that all happened, I think there is likely alot we dont know about this event.

Regarding Satan, I know he is only allowed so much from God, but I wouldnt exactly put anything past him, God has been pretty favorable to him when it comes to powers and abilities over the years, especially considering he tried to take over heaven, take Gods throne for himself, somehow managed to convince 1/3 of Gods angels to follow him and turn their back on the true God (this is a feat I will never understand how he was able to do), these beings KNEW God, not like us, they literally KNEW him, the fact that 1/3 had this knowledge and still did what they did, really suggests there is more to this than we know about. I dont think we have the complete story.

 

[Mike_Dye]

Some would say Hollywood IS the devil’s concubine.

Good One Patti.

 

[friardchips]

You are right…angels have no genitals, they are not sexual, but in the case of the fallen angels, they did possess human men (this is how they did this), keep in mind too, this was a special event, Im not claiming to know the logistics of how they actually passed on demonic material to the human women, maybe they possessed both the men and women…, IDK, Im sure they possessed human men though, but there was a little more going on when that all happened, I think there is likely alot we dont know about this event.

Yes, but, but, but, when demons possess people, they take over the body not have physical entwinings with the body. Even if they possessed men and women, the passed fluid was still not the demon’s own wotsit. However, we do seem to agree that angels don’t have certain parts which are strictly for human activity.

Regarding Satan, I know he is only allowed so much from God, but I wouldnt exactly put anything past him, God has been pretty favorable to him when it comes to powers and abilities over the years, especially considering he tried to take over heaven, take Gods throne for himself, somehow managed to convince 1/3 of Gods angels to follow him and turn their back on the true God (this is a feat I will never understand how he was able to do), these beings KNEW God, not like us, they literally KNEW him, the fact that 1/3 had this knowledge and still did what they did, really suggests there is more to this than we know about. I dont think we have the complete story.

Hmm, well satan did all this in Heaven, but I think that is as far as we go in agreement here too. he is certainly a pain. But he cannot read minds, he is not omni-present, he cannot read the future, he has no divine power, and he cannot insist on taking over a person without that person letting him in and he cannot bug people personally unless allowed.

One point I thought of is this: the book of Enoch, which people have cited as having so-called Nephilim mentioned in there, does not exist in the OT. So it must not have been included in the Septuagint either, in which the Scribes collated the best writings; IOW, it wasn’t relevant and was probably nonsense!

 

[ChibiViolet]

I wouldn’t ever make vows, to be honest, but certainly to apologise and ask for help is sensible.

It depends how far down the road you went. But do be careful because it is essentially tantamount to playing with satan. There is loads of this stuff around on the internet that leads to the same: New Age and some western Hindu sites can be invites (don’t get me started on the subject of Yoga) as well as the obvious straight-down satanic ones. Certain sins can lead to such activity very easily so blessings from priests are a very good idea.

The vow was very helpful and led to an end of the obsession, which was making me feel I absolutely had to commit a VERY BAD double mortal sin that I had not committed before and on an intellectual level I did not really want to commit. I felt like the vow was the only way to free me and it did. I had not intended to play with Satan and it certainly did not feel like a game, but like Satan was trying to get me to do something terrible via compulsion–making me feel as though pure evil without a choice. It was because the website was consecrated to Satan (I could feel it) and the nature of the awful subject-matter I was reading, along with the added factor that before that I had (and still have) a minor demon-attachment of a different sort…

 

[ChibiViolet]

Yes, but, but, but, when demons possess people, they take over the body not have physical entwinings with the body. Even if they possessed men and women, the passed fluid was still not the demon’s own wotsit. However, we do seem to agree that angels don’t have certain parts which are strictly for human activity.

Hmm, well satan did all this in Heaven, but I think that is as far as we go in agreement here too. he is certainly a pain. But he cannot read minds, he is not omni-present, he cannot read the future, he has no divine power, and he cannot insist on taking over a person without that person letting him in and he cannot bug people personally unless allowed.

One point I thought of is this: the book of Enoch, which people have cited as having so-called Nephilim mentioned in there, does not exist in the OT. So it must not have been included in the Septuagint either, in which the Scribes collated the best writings; IOW, it wasn’t relevant and was probably nonsense!

I’ve read many accounts of demons possessing people who had not deliberately opened themselves to demons, or even at all, in the case of curses.

A Satanist read my mind once. The exact way it happened led me to believe in the authenticity. I wish I could say that was a joke, but it’s not. It was FREAKY (and no, I was not asking to have my mind read or anything like that and it wasn’t even a person I knew, or had spoken to.)

 

[friardchips]

The vow was very helpful and led to an end of the obsession, which was making me feel I absolutely had to commit a VERY BAD double mortal sin that I had not committed before and on an intellectual level I did not really want to commit. I felt like the vow was the only way to free me and it did.

If you vowed to Him then that is between you and Him.

I am happy for you that you were freed from your obsession.

St. Paul worded in empathy, that we do the things we hate and not the things of the Spirit. A life-long battle. Obsession is not pleasant and is dangerous, and it is most definitely a great thing to be free from such a bind.

I had not intended to play with Satan and it certainly did not feel like a game, but like Satan was trying to get me to do something terrible via compulsion–making me feel as though pure evil without a choice.

All rings true.

It was because the website was consecrated to Satan (I could feel it) and the nature of the awful subject-matter I was reading, along with the added factor that before that I had (and still have) a minor demon-attachment of a different sort…

This is valuable info. I would even suggest that a thread be started on what you just said. I never thought that websites could be consecrated to satan but now you mention it, of course they could. How does one formally undo such a bind, please? (I am pleased you shared this with me).

(btw…I did think that because Microsoft used to put money into abortion, or at least, had a foundation involved with with such things, that before using any Microsoft products, one could do with getting the items blessed?!).

 

[friardchips]

I’ve read many accounts of demons possessing people who had not deliberately opened themselves to demons, or even at all, in the case of curses.

Yes, but you’re believing that the people who said they had not opened themselves up in any way, did not, when they may well have done. There are subtle ways in which we can and for those seriously discerning their path of righteousness, they could do with being aware what might be a good thing, and what might not.

A Satanist read my mind once. The exact way it happened led me to believe in the authenticity. I wish I could say that was a joke, but it’s not. It was FREAKY (and no, I was not asking to have my mind read or anything like that and it wasn’t even a person I knew, or had spoken to.)

I would trust nothing a satanist says. One of the many tactics satan uses is to slip little lies in to our consciousness, which go unquestioned, because of the legitimacy of all else that has been said. he slips in lies. For instance, I came upon a person who claimed to know things of a divine level, but then, amongst about nineteen pages of preaching which could have been true, and valuable, there was one little nasty bit, one sentence, which seemed as if it was a snipe at Our Lady, worded in a way which might have gone unnoticed, especially amongst all the other qualifiable assertions.

If I were you, I would also renounce all that was said by the satanist.

 

[dshix]

A Satanist read my mind once. The exact way it happened led me to believe in the authenticity. I wish I could say that was a joke, but it’s not. It was FREAKY (and no, I was not asking to have my mind read or anything like that and it wasn’t even a person I knew, or had spoken to.)

The mind is actually an inner sanctum of the soul which can only be truly known by the soul itself and God. So no, neither Satan nor any of his followers are truly capable of reading your mind.

They certainly can become very practiced at reading facial expressions, actions, or other factors to make very educated guesses about what you are thinking, and Satan can even help humans in doing this, but essentially this is just a trick, and any satanist who tries to get you to believe they are truly reading your mind is simply engaging in Satan’s trade: deception.

 

[friardchips]

The mind is actually an inner sanctum of the soul which can only be truly known by the soul itself and God. So no, neither Satan nor any of his followers are truly capable of reading your mind.

They certainly can become very practiced at reading facial expressions, actions, or other factors to make very educated guesses about what you are thinking, and Satan can even help humans in doing this, but essentially this is just a trick, and any satanist who tries to get you to believe they are truly reading your mind is simply engaging in Satan’s trade: deception.

the devil, is the genius predictor, which is why it is better that we do not gamble with truth.