The difference between free love and SSM debates

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

So, why did it come out of the bedroom?

If it had stayed in the bedroom, there would be little, if any, debate.

 

[kozlosap]

Gay activism is what has brought this to the forefront. Not content to live their lives in privacy, they insist on giving the rest of us TMI in an attempt to change the values of society. Quite honestly, I have no need to know if you are gay. You may share with your confessor, your family and your closest friends, but of course keeping it within the normal boundaries of acceptable social behavior does nothing to actually convince society that homosexuality is **normal. **

I’m a straight 62 year old woman with a thirty year old daughter and I taught high school for 35 years.

Society does change over time, otherwise I would not have a MA, be able to vote or even own property. When LGBTQ people decided that they should no longer have to live in their closets about 35 years ago is when things began to change in societies perception of gay individuals. Our old prejudices will never reappear because the last two generations have grown up loving their LGBTQ family members and friends. Someone once said that all politics are local. I think that in this situation, all views of different sexual identities is personal too, not in the old form of the majority referring to the minority as “them”. Gays are not a nebulous group of people, they are our brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, friends, teachers and yes, parents.

 

[frobert]

Dear frobert–I don’t know where you live, and maybe that’s the difference–I live in a major metropolitan area, and as early as the 90s I was hearing/seeing major pushback from gay rights activists at any hint gay sex might be morally or even for health reasons problematic. I had out-and -proud gay co workers.

I’ve never met an Wesboro Baptist Church style gay basher in my entire life. The people I know who oppose gay sex are actually pretty mild about it. Don’t believe in gay marriage, and at the same time get very angry at gay-targeted crime and discrimination.

I can say I saw this live-and-let-live attitude being the most prevalent attitude even as far back as the 80s, when I first understood the concept of homosexuality. The worst I saw tended to be among teenage boys who would skeeve at the idea of gay activity. But teenagers are trying to figure out their place in the world, anyway and are massively insecure.

Even my most ultra-conservative, gun-toting, prepper, young-Earth creationist Evangelical friend firmly believes that if a homosexual accepts Jesus as their personal Lord and savior and makes their best effort to avoid this sin and repents when they do fall, will be saved.

I guess I just saw one too many messages about how Christians all want gays to rot in Hell and lost my cool and that’s why I originally posted. Having a grumpy day about being misrepresented…

I don’t think you responded to what I wrote except in a tangential way. I lived in NY metropolitan area in the 80s to mid 90s and am well aware of the proud and gay activism and acceptance of gays but we were a subset and the majority of gays lived and still do in small town USA where they dared not come out to their families for fear that they would be disowned. Today I live in a small conservative village in what is considered a bible belt county in Florida. I am part of the town leadership and my partner and myself are quite welcome in all circles including our church. The only point I was attempting to make in my previous post is that being gay is no longer the family, social, religious or business barrier it was pre 2000. No gay or anti-gay activist could have predicted the speed of reversal in acceptance in 1990s and early 2000s even the ones living in metropolitan areas.

 

[frobert]

So, why did it come out of the bedroom?

If it had stayed in the bedroom, there would be little, if any, debate.

Most gay and lesbian to not broadcast what they do in their bedrooms just as most straights do not broadcast what they do in their bedrooms. For most gays and lesbians gay marriage is a civil rights issue not a sexual issue.

BTW, If I really was curious about what other people do in their bedrooms I could easily go to internet porn site that covers a variety of sexual niches. I am sure at best I would be bored and at worse nauseated.

 

[DaisymaeD]

Dear frobert–I guess it comes to the definition of “control”. For instance, I have never believed in anti-sodomy laws, and I believe that combat military service should be open to men (regardless of sexual preference), but not to women.

(I’m sure that last sentence will get me flamed into oblivion, but hey–YOLO!!!)

 

[kozlosap]

Dear frobert–I guess it comes to the definition of “control”. For instance, I have never believed in anti-sodomy laws, and I believe that combat military service should be open to men (regardless of sexual preference), but not to women.

(I’m sure that last sentence will get me flamed into oblivion, but hey–YOLO!!!)

Good grief. My daughter’s sorority sister is now a captain in the USAF and a jet pilot who just completed her in-air fueling training. Why on earth would you not want her to serve her country? If we want our military to have the best and the brightest, remember that 50% of the best and brightest are women.

 

[frobert]

Dear frobert–I guess it comes to the definition of “control”. For instance, I have never believed in anti-sodomy laws, and I believe that combat military service should be open to men (regardless of sexual preference), but not to women.

(I’m sure that last sentence will get me flamed into oblivion, but hey–YOLO!!!)

Perhaps you are

 

[DaisymaeD]

Haha–that didn’t take long!

Dear Koslosap–my view on women in combat (not the military at large, but combat in particular) , is not a moral/religious one, it’s more casual and open to change. Women are just as capable as men at getting the job done, I don’t doubt that for even a second. However, in the case of being captured by the enemy, I really, truly believe that women are WAY more vulnerable to rape and abuse by their captor, especially in countries where women have few rights.

That is all.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Nowadays, agreeing to the moral validity of gay sexual activity…
…a litmus test to make you an acceptable target for exclusion and hate, if you don’t agree with it.

Spot on DaisymaeD

I like your Op and agree that there is something sinister about the hypocrisy of the LGBTQ lobby which vilifies and hates those who disagree.

But JimG is right. It’s too late to shut the door after the horse has bolted. As a society, we are reaping what we sowed back in the 60’s and 70’s when the destruction of the nuclear family began. With;

• guilt-free sex/adultery
• abortion on demand
• no fault divorce
• the cult of hedonism and selfishness.
• pushing God into the closet and denying His existence.

 

[kozlosap]

Haha–that didn’t take long!

Dear Koslosap–my view on women in combat (not the military at large, but combat in particular) , is not a moral/religious one, it’s more casual and open to change. Women are just as capable as men at getting the job done, I don’t doubt that for even a second. However, in the case of being captured by the enemy, I really, truly believe that women are WAY more vulnerable to rape and abuse by their captor, especially in countries where women have few rights.

That is all.

Once again , I misread your post ! Sorry , I thought you meant the military as a whole. I’m certainly glad that I didn’t bring the entire Israeli military protocols into my argument !

 

[Rau]

It’s really not as simple as writing up a bunch of legal documents and having everything be the same as it would be for married spouses. For example, a person can transfer money and real estate to their spouse with no tax penalties. But if a man does the same to his same-sex partner, gift taxes would apply. Also, in California, a person can transfer property to their spouse (including through their will) without the property being reassessed. This is not possible between unmarried, same-sex partners and the property would be reassessed which would probably significantly raise the property taxes. If a person’s spouse dies and that spouse’s social security is higher, the survivor can receive the spouse’s higher social security payments. This would not be possible between unmarried same-sex partners. These are only just a few of the differences that cannot be rectified by writing up legal documents.

But the law can rectify them without requiring the redefinition of marriage. My jurisdiction did so 20 years ago.

 

[Rau]

Most gay and lesbian to not broadcast what they do in their bedrooms just as most straights do not broadcast what they do in their bedrooms. For most gays and lesbians gay marriage is a civil rights issue not a sexual issue.

What civil rights issue?

Marriage is sexual unon of State significance and with obvious eligibility criteria.

 

[frobert]

What civil rights issue?

Marriage is sexual unon of State significance and with obvious eligibility criteria.

The topic is: “The difference between free love and SSM debates.” One side wants to frame it as a sex debate while the other side frames it differently. On 4-28, the Supreme Court will hear arguments on the issues, the most import are individual rights and states; rights. It is unlikely that any arguments will be entertained on the merits of free love.

 

[Rau]

The topic is: “The difference between free love and SSM debates.” One side wants to frame it as a sex debate while the other side frames it differently. On 4-28, the Supreme Court will hear arguments on the issues, the most import are individual rights and states; rights. It is unlikely that any arguments will be entertained on the merits of free love.

That doesn’t answer my question.

Free love is not a State endorsed and supported institution. I don’t think it will come up, though I know people partake of this freedom now.

 

[frobert]

That doesn’t answer my question.

Free love is not a State endorsed and supported institution. I don’t think it will come up, though I know people partake of this freedom now.

Nor should it be