The difference in versions of The Ten Commandments

[GRATEFULONEjim]

I tried doing a search because I figured this had been asked previously, but I found no threads that were associated. I am discussing the issue of the 10 Commandments being different between protestant and Roman Catholic teaching. If the Commandments were handed down from God centuries before the Catholic Church came into being, how is there a discrepancy in the translation from what the Catholic Church lists and what the protestant churches list? Especially seeing that it was the Catholic Church who gave the protestants the Bible.

 

[Trishie]

For a start, Jim, Deuteronomy 5:6-21 and Exodus 20 2-17 didn’t number them.
See
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm

The Catechism further states: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P78.HTM

2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. the catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. the present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. the Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.

 

[aragonjohn1]

technically there isnt ten commandments mentioned in the bible there is 13 in leviticus and exodus 17 in new testament and one old testament book and 630+ in the old testament

Shalom
God Bless

 

[babs57]

I think the difference comes from the Protestants’ focus on idoltry. They have separated what we call the first commandment into two:

1. Thou shalt have no false gods before Me.
2. Thou shalt not make graven images.

In my opinion these are the same commandment, as an idol is a false god.

Then, the problem catches up to them at the end of the list. The Protestants have combined the last two commandments into one:

1. Thou shalt not covet.

The more Catholic rendering is:

1. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
2. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

Some Protestants claim that Catholics have combined the first two commandments into one, and separated the last commandment into two in order to excuse all the “idols” (statues and pictures) we have in our churches and houses. However, I believe the 9th commandment (lust) and the 10th commandment (envy) are two very different sins.

In the list in Deut ch5, there is a pretty strong distinction between the two. Deut 5:21 he talks about DESIRING the neighbor’s wife, but lists the neighbor’s goods (personal possesions) as things not to be coveted. Protestants will also say that since adultery is already listed, then there is no need to list it again (as coveting your nieghbor’s wife). However, stealing is also listed. So by that reasoning, there would be no reason to list coveting your neighbor’s goods as a separate commandment either.

All that being said, there is also the fact that the numbers 3 and 7 are very symbolic in the scriptures (the number 3 signifying God, and the number 7 signifying God’s interaction with man). If you look at the Ten Commandments as divided into the two “Great Commandments” (Love God above all things - Deut 6:4-5 and Love your neighbor as yourself - Lev 19:18, also Matt 22:37-40), the numbering of them becomes significant.

1. LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS.

1. I am the Lord, thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.
3. Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy.

1. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF.

1. Honor thy father and thy mother.
2. Thou shalt not murder.
3. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
4. Thou shalt not steal.
5. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
6. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
7. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

The Church follows this numbering (which I believe is the Augustinian one). However, what is important more than the numbering, of course, is the LOVE. :yup:

 

[porthos11]

Both Catholics and Protestants are wrong to blame the other for the difference in numbering or to attribute malice to the other. As cited earlier, it’s merely a difference between the Augustinian and Greek reckoning because there are more than ten imperatives in both Exodus and Deuteronomy, so some way needed to be found to group them into ten as per Deuteronomy 10:4.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I am surprised that Women’s Lib has never protested the Protestant form, which lumps the wife in with the rest of the neighbor’s possessions.

 

[babs57]

Both Catholics and Protestants are wrong to blame the other for the difference in numbering or to attribute malice to the other. As cited earlier, it’s merely a difference between the Augustinian and Greek reckoning because there are more than ten imperatives in both Exodus and Deuteronomy, so some way needed to be found to group them into ten as per Deuteronomy 10:4.

No malice intended. These are only things that have come up in discussion with people on the topic of the numbering. Please replace “protestant” with “some people” in my answer. :hug1:

 

[Nelka]

I think the difference comes from the Protestants’ focus on idoltry. They have separated what we call the first commandment into two:

1. Thou shalt have no false gods before Me.
2. Thou shalt not make graven images.

In my opinion these are the same commandment, as an idol is a false god.

Then, the problem catches up to them at the end of the list. The Protestants have combined the last two commandments into one:

1. Thou shalt not covet.

The more Catholic rendering is:

1. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
2. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

Some Protestants claim that Catholics have combined the first two commandments into one, and separated the last commandment into two in order to excuse all the “idols” (statues and pictures) we have in our churches and houses. However, I believe the 9th commandment (lust) and the 10th commandment (envy) are two very different sins.

In the list in Deut ch5, there is a pretty strong distinction between the two. Deut 5:21 he talks about DESIRING the neighbor’s wife, but lists the neighbor’s goods (personal possesions) as things not to be coveted. Protestants will also say that since adultery is already listed, then there is no need to list it again (as coveting your nieghbor’s wife). However, stealing is also listed. So by that reasoning, there would be no reason to list coveting your neighbor’s goods as a separate commandment either.

All that being said, there is also the fact that the numbers 3 and 7 are very symbolic in the scriptures (the number 3 signifying God, and the number 7 signifying God’s interaction with man). If you look at the Ten Commandments as divided into the two “Great Commandments” (Love God above all things - Deut 6:4-5 and Love your neighbor as yourself - Lev 19:18, also Matt 22:37-40), the numbering of them becomes significant.

1. LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS.

1. I am the Lord, thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.
3. Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy.

1. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF.

1. Honor thy father and thy mother.
2. Thou shalt not murder.
3. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
4. Thou shalt not steal.
5. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
6. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
7. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

The Church follows this numbering (which I believe is the Augustinian one). However, what is important more than the numbering, of course, is the LOVE. :yup:

I am surprised that Women’s Lib has never protested the Protestant form, which lumps the wife in with the rest of the neighbor’s possessions.

 

[R_C]

See
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm

The Catechism further states: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P78.HTM

2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. the catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. the present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. the Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.

:yup:

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Great posts…Thank you.

 

[patrick457]

I tried doing a search because I figured this had been asked previously, but I found no threads that were associated. I am discussing the issue of the 10 Commandments being different between protestant and Roman Catholic teaching. If the Commandments were handed down from God centuries before the Catholic Church came into being, how is there a discrepancy in the translation from what the Catholic Church lists and what the protestant churches list? Especially seeing that it was the Catholic Church who gave the protestants the Bible.

Everyone has already given good answers so I’ll just drop my two cents.

We are told that God spoke the ‘Ten Words’ (the traditional term ‘Ten Commandments’ is a loose translation) to the Israelites, but we aren’t told how to divide them. Currently there exists three main ways of reckoning: the Philonic (used by the 1st century Jewish writers Philo and Josephus, some early Church Fathers, most modern Protestants and the Eastern Orthodox), the Augustinian (first attested in St. Augustine’s works; favored by Catholics and Lutherans) and the Talmudic (the reckoning found in rabbinic literature used by modern Jews).

The difference between the three is (1) the Talmudic considers “I am Yhwh, your God” and “You must not have other gods” to be two separate declarations (‘words’), while the Philonic and the Augustinian classify them together; (2) the Philonic treats “You must not make a carved idol” as distinct from "You must not have other gods while the Talmudic and Augustinian lump them together; (3) “You must not covet” is one ‘word’ in the Philonic and Talmudic, but is two in the Augustinian.

Now there are some Catholics who are quick to condemn the Philonic reckoning as a Protestant ‘innovation’, but this is an urban legend that needs to be laid to rest: Philo and Josephus in the 1st century and some of the Fathers used it, so it already has a pedigree. The Eastern Churches (who are probably also as ‘iconophiles’ as we Catholics are, if not more, and elevate marriage as a sacrament - or rather, a ‘mystery’ ) use it, so anyone who uses the Philonic division is not necessarily ‘iconoclastic’ or ‘woman-hating’.

 

[chosen_people]

God and the Jews fundamentally changed the way all people regarded religion. Until the Jews, religion was something that dealt with man’s relationship to God. The Jews irrevocably changed that concept.For Jews religion dealt not only with man’s relationship to God but also man’s relationship to other people.

The second revolution was the connection between laws and commandments and God. The concept of laws was already well known. However, with God’s revelation to the entire Jewish nation at Sinai, we establish the concept that these laws and commandments are not merely rules to be followed but a Divine imperative.

If we understand those concepts we can understand the division of the ten commandments.The first five commandments (having faith in God’s existence, prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of vain oaths, the Sabbath and honoring parents [which in Judaism is equal to honoring God] - all deal with the relationship between man and God. The second five commandments (prohibition against murder,prohibition against adultery,prohibition against kidnapping [usually misunderstood to mean simple theft],prohibition against bearing false witness and prohibition against coveting) - all deal with relationships among people.

 

[farpinho]

God and the Jews fundamentally changed the way all people regarded religion. Until the Jews, religion was something that dealt with man’s relationship to God. The Jews irrevocably changed that concept.For Jews religion dealt not only with man’s relationship to God but also man’s relationship to other people.

The second revolution was the connection between laws and commandments and God. The concept of laws was already well known. However, with God’s revelation to the entire Jewish nation at Sinai, we establish the concept that these laws and commandments are not merely rules to be followed but a Divine imperative.

If we understand those concepts we can understand the division of the ten commandments.The first five commandments (having faith in God’s existence, prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of vain oaths, the Sabbath and honoring parents [which in Judaism is equal to honoring God] - all deal with the relationship between man and God. The second five commandments (prohibition against murder,prohibition against adultery,prohibition against kidnapping [usually misunderstood to mean simple theft],prohibition against bearing false witness and prohibition against coveting) - all deal with relationships among people.

 

[Crumpy]

God and the Jews fundamentally changed the way all people regarded religion. Until the Jews, religion was something that dealt with man’s relationship to God. The Jews irrevocably changed that concept.For Jews religion dealt not only with man’s relationship to God but also man’s relationship to other people.

The second revolution was the connection between laws and commandments and God. The concept of laws was already well known. However, with God’s revelation to the entire Jewish nation at Sinai, we establish the concept that these laws and commandments are not merely rules to be followed but a Divine imperative.

If we understand those concepts we can understand the division of the ten commandments.The first five commandments (having faith in God’s existence, prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of vain oaths, the Sabbath and honoring parents [which in Judaism is equal to honoring God] - all deal with the relationship between man and God. The second five commandments (prohibition against murder,prohibition against adultery,prohibition against kidnapping [usually misunderstood to mean simple theft],prohibition against bearing false witness and prohibition against coveting) - all deal with relationships among people.

I like the Jewish convention of numbering (although I can’t recite it by memory). In addition to the above, in the Jewish numbering, the first 5 commandments have the words “the Lord your God” in them, which distinguishes them from the remaining commands. so, it is easy to conclude that the first 5 deal with man’s relationship to God, and the second 5 deal with man’s relationship with mankind.

Also, the depiction of the tablets of stone as having a semi-circular top to them is artistic embellishment, without a basis in the holy writings. It does, however, draw attention to itself for what it is.

There is a slight difference in wording between Exodus and Deuteronomy about the Sabbath. One says “remember” the Sabbath, the other says “observe” the Sabbath. The Jewish sages and rabbis have pondered that difference for many years.

 

[patrick457]

I like the Jewish convention of numbering (although I can’t recite it by memory). In addition to the above, in the Jewish numbering, the first 5 commandments have the words “the Lord your God” in them, which distinguishes them from the remaining commands. so, it is easy to conclude that the first 5 deal with man’s relationship to God, and the second 5 deal with man’s relationship with mankind.

1. *]I am Yhwh your God, who led you up from the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves.
   *]There will not be for you other gods upon my face.
   *]You must not take up the name of YHWH your God for a falseness.
   *]Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   *]Honor your father and your mother.
   *]You must not murder.
   *]You must not commit adultery.
   *]You must not steal.
   *]You must not answer against your neighbor a lying witness
   *]You must not covet the house of your neighbor; you must not covet the woman of your neighbor, and his manservant, and his maidservant, and his ox, and his donkey, and all which is your neighbor’s.

 

[Crumpy]

the “documentary hypothesis” asserts that there are various “sources” that have been combined to form the Torah. The differences in wording between the Exodus and Deuteronomy support the hypothesis that these sections were pieced together from different sources or traditions.

Although the Torah is called the books of Moses, these differences suggest varied authorship.

The hypothesis is just that. It is asserted but unproven. This difference about the Sabbath could have resulted from variations due to scribal error, or because the “canon” of Jewish scripture was not settled at the time when these scrolls were written.

Modern Jewish exegesis suggests that the Torah was put together with respect for the various sources, such that this type of difference was not “fixed” for appearances.

There’s some saying attributed to the Lord, that he said one thing, and we heard two things.

The rabbis and sages try to harmonize all such variations.

 

[patrick457]

Personally, I see the Ten Words as the contract of the Sinai covenant in line with Ancient Near Eastern treaties, with the tablets of stone being the two identical copies of the treaty drawn up for each party (in this case, Yhwh and Israel).

 

[babs57]

God and the Jews fundamentally changed the way all people regarded religion. Until the Jews, religion was something that dealt with man’s relationship to God. The Jews irrevocably changed that concept.For Jews religion dealt not only with man’s relationship to God but also man’s relationship to other people.

The second revolution was the connection between laws and commandments and God. The concept of laws was already well known. However, with God’s revelation to the entire Jewish nation at Sinai, we establish the concept that these laws and commandments are not merely rules to be followed but a Divine imperative.

If we understand those concepts we can understand the division of the ten commandments.The first five commandments (having faith in God’s existence, prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of vain oaths, the Sabbath and honoring parents [which in Judaism is equal to honoring God] - all deal with the relationship between man and God. The second five commandments (prohibition against murder,prohibition against adultery,prohibition against kidnapping [usually misunderstood to mean simple theft],prohibition against bearing false witness and prohibition against coveting) - all deal with relationships among people.

This numbering makes sense, IF you consider honoring your parents equal to honoring G-D. However, I like the 3/7 division better.

 

[gibbs]

God and the Jews fundamentally changed the way all people regarded religion. Until the Jews, religion was something that dealt with man’s relationship to God. The Jews irrevocably changed that concept.For Jews religion dealt not only with man’s relationship to God but also man’s relationship to other people.

The second revolution was the connection between laws and commandments and God. The concept of laws was already well known. However, with God’s revelation to the entire Jewish nation at Sinai, we establish the concept that these laws and commandments are not merely rules to be followed but a Divine imperative.

If we understand those concepts we can understand the division of the ten commandments.The first five commandments (having faith in God’s existence, prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of vain oaths, the Sabbath and honoring parents [which in Judaism is equal to honoring God] - all deal with the relationship between man and God. The second five commandments (prohibition against murder,prohibition against adultery,prohibition against kidnapping [usually misunderstood to mean simple theft],prohibition against bearing false witness and prohibition against coveting) - all deal with relationships among people.

From what I’ve seen there are at least 4 ways of their being numbered depending on what denomination/religion you look at. That being said I find the two way split being described above the most informative. It goes hand in hand with Jesus’s response in Matthew 22 about the most important commandment:

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37* And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39* And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

No matter how you divide the commandments into 10 parts, Their meaning becomes more clear in these two divisions.