The different types of merit

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Lion_Heart

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Greetings in Christ,

Without going into the fine details, our Church teach two main types of merit. CONGRUENT MERIT and CONDIGN MERIT.

CONGRUENT MERIT:-

Congruent merit refers to GAINING MERIT FOR OTHERS.
Christ’s merit on the cross was CONGRUENT MERIT, His congruent merit gained for us the gift of salvation, the gift of final perseverance, healing, gifts of the Spirit, etc.

CONDIGN MERIT:-

The beneficiary is THE PERSON who performs the condign merit.
This CONDIGN MERIT called supernatural merit or good works.
We are cooperating with the grace of God and God works through us.

This works involved getting more holy (work on to improve our sanctification) and more just (work on to be more just in ourselves). Proclaim the Gospel to everyone, doing charity works.

For Christ’s CONGRUENT MERIT we have (salvation) God’s gift OF heaven.

For our CONDIGN MERIT God has promised us reward IN heaven.
This CONDIGN MERIT sometimes called supernatural merit or good works.

CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS COUNT FOR ANYTHING:-

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one MUST be in a STATE OF GRACE, MUST be a member of the BODY OF CHRIST, MUST be SAVED, MUST be already JUSTIFIED before we do a SINGLE WORK that counts for anything.

Further conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL merit possible:

“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin
Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasis mine.

In my opinion:-
a. The interpretation of any Bible verse which we conclude; work is a condition of our salvation, that conclusion is incorrect.

b. The interpretation of any Church doctrine which we conclude; work is a condition of our salvation, that conclusion is also incorrect.

c. Unless we believe work is not a condition of our salvation, we can never do good works that God accepts, because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation and not for Love and for the Glory of God.

To believe work is NOT a condition of our salvation PRECEDES good works.

I would like to have the view of the members on the conditions of supernatural merit/good works.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
b. The interpretation of any Church doctrine which we conclude; work is a condition of our salvation, that conclusion is also incorrect.
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But this is NOT the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches that we are saved by Christian Baptism (OK, I suppose that Baptism is a “work,” but I doubt it’s the type of “work” you mean). NOTHING can remove us from that salvation other than our own willful and deliberate rejection of the Will of God through mortal sin. No “works” can EVER restore us to a State of Grace except Sacramental Confession (which, I suppose, is a “work,” but I doubt it’s the type of “work” you mean).

It is possible that a person may fall into mortal sin by a “sin of omission,” such as those Jewish leaders in Our Lord’s parable, who passed by the fallen traveler, when a (despised) Samaritan chose to help. These would be like those who saw me hungry, but did not offer me food. Or naked, but offered me no clothing. But no Catholic is ever required (as a condition of salvation) to seek out good works to perform. We are not required to work in a soup kitchen, or provide a homeless shelter, or build houses for Habitat for Humanity, or any such thing.

Please define what you mean by the term “work.” Do you mean rendering aid to those you encounter who are in immediate need of it? Failure to do so could constitute mortal sin (and could even be criminally negligent under US law, and you could go to prison (and later to hell)). Or do you mean to “seek out” acts of charity to perform? (the latter is usually what non-Catholics refer to, but it is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.)

The Catholic Economy of Salvation is deceptively simple. We are saved by Christian Baptism (in which the minister does not even need to be Catholic - the Church accepts most protestant Baptisms). If we avoid mortal sin, we go to heaven. Period. If we fall into mortal sin, but make a good confession, we go to heaven. Period. Did I mention works (besides receiving the Sacraments of the Church)? No, I don’t think so.

This is the Doctrine of the Catholic Church. If you can cite something to the contrary, please do so.
 
DavidFilmer said:
But this is NOT the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches that we are saved by Christian Baptism (OK, I suppose that Baptism is a “work,” but I doubt it’s the type of “work” you mean). NOTHING can remove us from that salvation other than our own willful and deliberate rejection of the Will of God through mortal sin. No “works” can EVER restore us to a State of Grace except Sacramental Confession (which, I suppose, is a “work,” but I doubt it’s the type of “work” you mean).
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Greetings in Christ DavidFilmer,

The Church teaches that we are saved by “Grace ALONE, SOLELY on account of the work of Christ.” (Basic Catholic Beliefs, Doctrines, Ideas, Practices, and Customs.)
Another way to put it, means the same thing (Catholics permitted to believe):- We have been saved by (formed) faith alone.

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan
Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become righteous and be saved? We are NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE by James Akin

Quote: “In fact, in TRADITIONAL WORKS OF CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, one regularly encounters the statement that FORMED FAITH IS JUSTIFYING FAITH. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period. End quote. (It is on the internet, every Catholic and Protestant should read and study it.)

Sola fide formata = (formed) FAITH ALONE
THE COMPOSITE OF GOD’S GIFT OF FAITH:

a. BELIEF ……. (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)
b. HOPE ……… (Unconditional TRUST in God.)
c. CHARITY …. (Unconditional LOVE for God.)

Faith also includes Baptism of Desire.

To freely accept the GIFT OF FAITH, “THE WILL IS PREPARED BY THE LORD.” – Canon 4 of the Council of Orange (529 AD); John 6:44-45.

This formed faith (baptism of desire included to formed faith) produces INSTANT JUSTIFICATION and INSTANT SALVATION without water baptism and without sacraments, [CCC 1249]; Acts 10:44-48.

As 1.2 billion Catholic in the world, probably millions of catechumens in heaven who never had water baptism or any sacrament.

At the point of our conversion, (makes no difference that a person is Catholic or Protestant), “God raises us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” (Eph.2:6)

Quote: “AUGUSTINE’S CONTRIBUTION TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

We are inserted into the Body of Christ by our baptism and become members united to the Head, so that while our feet may be on earth we are already in heaven.” End quote.
The above quote taken from a public letter of Paul Maloney OSA Written September 19th 2012

So those who are saying we are not saved until we are in heaven, they are perfectly right, because at our conversion God takes us up to heaven.

Continued on the next post
 
Continuation

CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS COUNT FOR ANYTHING

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one MUST be in a STATE OF GRACE, MUST be a member of the BODY OF CHRIST, MUST be SAVED, MUST be already JUSTIFIED before we do a SINGLE WORK that counts for anything.

Further conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL merit possible:

“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasis mine.

If we believe: Work is condition of our salvation, then our works can NEVER BE UP TO THE ABOVE STANDARDS because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation not for love and for the Glory of God, and ALL our work goes up in smoke at the judgment of 1 Cor.3:11-15.

This is THE DIVIDING LINE between true religion and false religion.

The members of true religion working FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY, NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP them SOMEHOW but for SHEER LOVE of God and for HIS GLORY.

They can do it because they KNOW they have the IRREVACABLE God’s gift of everlasting life.

CANNOT BE OVER EMPHASIZE: This is THE KEY to do supernatural merit that God accepts and recognize!!! – There is NO other way to achieve supernatural merit which is the only good works.

The members of false religions working for God’s FREE GIFT OF SALVATION. In an uncertain and fired hope that by the end of their life enough works done and for their merit they deserve salvation.

We don’t know who the elects are, only God can see their faith.
Christ has declared in His MOST SOLEMN STATEMENT (John 5:24) who the elects are, but we can’t see their faith.

WE ONLY KNOW WHAT CHRIST HAS PROCLAMED IN JOHN 5:24
  1. The elects to Heaven HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
    MEANING: The elects has God’s GIFT OF EVERLASTING LIFE which can NEVER be revoked. (It is un-revocable. Rom.11:29)
TO HAVE CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT EVERLATING LIFE MEANS:
God’s gift of EVERLASTING LIFE is NOT periodical LIFE and DEATH.

God’s gift is EVERLASTING LIFE.
Periodical LIFE and DEATH is NOT everlasting life.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, … has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of FAITH is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees FAITH as FUNDAMENTAL in justification. FOR WITHOUT FAITH, NO JUSTIFICATION CAN TAKE PLACE. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the RENEWAL OF LIFE by justifying grace, this RENEWAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and CONTRIBUTES NOTHING TO JUSTIFICATION

Our salvation PRECEDES our cooperation with the grace of God.
So, to work on to be more JUST and HOLY is the FRUIT of our salvation NOT the cause of it.

The fruits of our salvation CAN NOT be contributed to our salvation.
This is our SUPERNATURAL MERIT and the other is GOD’S GIFT OF SALVATION.
The two do NOT MIX!!!
The fruits of our salvation is our supernatural merit. God rewards it IN heaven.

Performing a sacrament is our supernatural merit. Our supernatural merit CAN NOT be contributed to our salvation.

As I stated above:- As 1.2 billion Catholic in the world, probably millions of catechumens in heaven who never had water baptism or any sacrament.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
Continuation

CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS COUNT FOR ANYTHING

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one MUST be in a STATE OF GRACE, MUST be a member of the BODY OF CHRIST, MUST be SAVED, MUST be already JUSTIFIED before we do a SINGLE WORK that counts for anything.

Further conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL merit possible:

“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasis mine.

If we believe: Work is condition of our salvation, then our works can NEVER BE UP TO THE ABOVE STANDARDS because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation not for love and for the Glory of God, and ALL our work goes up in smoke at the judgment of 1 Cor.3:11-15.

This is THE DIVIDING LINE between true religion and false religion.

The members of true religion working FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY, NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP them SOMEHOW but for SHEER LOVE of God and for HIS GLORY.

They can do it because they KNOW they have the IRREVACABLE God’s gift of everlasting life.

CANNOT BE OVER EMPHASIZE: This is THE KEY to do supernatural merit that God accepts and recognize!!! – There is NO other way to achieve supernatural merit which is the only good works.

The members of false religions working for God’s FREE GIFT OF SALVATION. In an uncertain and fired hope that by the end of their life enough works done and for their merit they deserve salvation.

We don’t know who the elects are, only God can see their faith.
Christ has declared in His MOST SOLEMN STATEMENT (John 5:24) who the elects are, but we can’t see their faith.

WE ONLY KNOW WHAT CHRIST HAS PROCLAMED IN JOHN 5:24
  1. The elects to Heaven HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
    MEANING: The elects has God’s GIFT OF EVERLASTING LIFE which can NEVER be revoked. (It is un-revocable. Rom.11:29)
TO HAVE CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT EVERLATING LIFE MEANS:
God’s gift of EVERLASTING LIFE is NOT periodical LIFE and DEATH.

God’s gift is EVERLASTING LIFE.
Periodical LIFE and DEATH is NOT everlasting life.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, … has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of FAITH is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees FAITH as FUNDAMENTAL in justification. FOR WITHOUT FAITH, NO JUSTIFICATION CAN TAKE PLACE. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the RENEWAL OF LIFE by justifying grace, this RENEWAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and CONTRIBUTES NOTHING TO JUSTIFICATION

Our salvation PRECEDES our cooperation with the grace of God.
So, to work on to be more JUST and HOLY is the FRUIT of our salvation NOT the cause of it.

The fruits of our salvation CAN NOT be contributed to our salvation.
This is our SUPERNATURAL MERIT and the other is GOD’S GIFT OF SALVATION.
The two do NOT MIX!!!
The fruits of our salvation is our supernatural merit. God rewards it IN heaven.

Performing a sacrament is our supernatural merit. Our supernatural merit CAN NOT be contributed to our salvation.

As I stated above:- As 1.2 billion Catholic in the world, probably millions of catechumens in heaven who never had water baptism or any sacrament.

With love in Christ,
LH
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Sorry but your lengthy posts are incoherent to me.
In a couple of sentences of your own words what point are you trying to make?
 
thistle said:
Sorry but your lengthy posts are incoherent to me.
In a couple of sentences of your own words what point are you trying to make?
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Greetings in Christ Thistle,
  1. We are NOT justified/saved by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.
    Our salvation is God’s free gift.
  2. Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)
    ONLY AFTER we have been saved we can do good works.
  3. If we believe: Work is condition of our salvation, then our works can NEVER PLEASE GOD because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation not for love and for the Glory of God, and ALL our work goes up in smoke at the judgment of our works. – 1 Cor.3:11-15.
  4. Whatever we did before we have been saved, or whatever we will do after we have been salved, contributes nothing to our salvation, because our salvation is God’s free gift.
  5. The members of false religion working for God’s free gift of salvation.
  6. For the members of true religion salvation is God’s free gift.
    They don’t work for to get it or for to keep it.
    They know:- Work is not a condition of their salvation. So, they work for love and for the Glory of God.
This is THE ONLY KIND of WORK that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
Greetings in Christ Thistle,
  1. We are NOT justified/saved by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.
    Our salvation is God’s free gift.
  2. Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)
    **ONLY AFTER we have been saved we can do good works. **
  3. If we believe: Work is condition of our salvation, then our works can NEVER PLEASE GOD because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation not for love and for the Glory of God, and ALL our work goes up in smoke at the judgment of our works. – 1 Cor.3:11-15.
  4. Whatever we did before we have been saved, or whatever we will do after we have been salved, contributes nothing to our salvation, because our salvation is God’s free gift.
  5. The members of false religion working for God’s free gift of salvation.
  6. For the members of true religion salvation is God’s free gift.
    They don’t work for to get it or for to keep it.
    They know:- Work is not a condition of their salvation. So, they work for love and for the Glory of God.
This is THE ONLY KIND of WORK that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.

With love in Christ,
LH
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That doesn’t make sense and is not what the Church teaches.

Nobody is saved while they are alive. You are only saved if you die in a state of grace.
 
thistle said:
That doesn’t make sense and is not what the Church teaches.

Nobody is saved while they are alive. You are only saved if you die in a state of grace.
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Thistle, you and I have disagreed on this forum on several topics, but I must agree with you that I have attempted to comprehend Lion Heart’s messages, and have found myself unequal to the challenge.

I agree that it seems that Lion Heart is teaching contrary to Catholic doctrine (which would mean he is a heretic, though perhaps an accidental heretic, and not personally accountable). But, since I cannot really interpret what he is saying, I have no idea.

I echo your request to Lion Heart to clarify his position in one or two sentences. I cannot tell even if he agrees or disagrees with you or I.

Maybe this will help: I am addressing this question to the Forum Member Lion Heart, in a series of yes/no questions. I ask about Catholic doctrine, and ask Lion Heart if he agrees or disagrees:


  1. *]Do you agree that everyone on earth is justified (which means “CAN go to heaven”) by Our Lord’s Sacrifice on Calvary?
    *]Do you agree that SOME (but not ALL) of these justified people are guaranteed to be SAVED (which means, “WILL go to heaven”) through valid Christian Baptism?
    *]Do you agree that ONLY mortal sin can remove us from a State of Grace, which we are guaranteed to obtain through valid Christian Baptism?
    *]Do you agree that Sacramental Confession is the only guaranteed means that a Baptized person can regain the State of Grace that he enjoyed upon Baptism?
    *]Do you agree that ANYONE who has received Christian Baptism and dies in a State of Grace is guaranteed admission into heaven?

    Lion Heart, I ask you directly: Do you answer “yes” unconditionally to each and every one of these questions?

    If you reply, I sincerely ask that your reply include a response to either the individual questions, or at least a “yes” or “no” reply to my last question. If you wish to respond with more doctrinal spaghetti, please preface your response with an answer to this (or these) questions.
 
DavidFilmer said:
Thistle, you and I have disagreed on this forum on several topics, but I must agree with you that I have attempted to comprehend Lion Heart’s messages, and have found myself unequal to the challenge.

I agree that it seems that Lion Heart is teaching contrary to Catholic doctrine (which would mean he is a heretic, though perhaps an accidental heretic, and not personally accountable). But, since I cannot really interpret what he is saying, I have no idea.

I echo your request to Lion Heart to clarify his position in one or two sentences. I cannot tell even if he agrees or disagrees with you or I.

Maybe this will help: I am addressing this question to the Forum Member Lion Heart, in a series of yes/no questions. I ask about Catholic doctrine, and ask Lion Heart if he agrees or disagrees:


  1. *]Do you agree that everyone on earth is justified (which means “CAN go to heaven”) by Our Lord’s Sacrifice on Calvary?
    According to Church teaching: Everyone Redeemed. Only Christians justified.

    *]Do you agree that SOME (but not ALL) of these justified people are guaranteed to be SAVED (which means, “WILL go to heaven”) through valid Christian Baptism?
    Faith + Baptism = Yes.

    *]Do you agree that ONLY mortal sin can remove us from a State of Grace, which we are guaranteed to obtain through valid Christian Baptism?
    Yes.

    *]Do you agree that Sacramental Confession is the only guaranteed means that a Baptized person can regain the State of Grace that he enjoyed upon Baptism?
    Yes.

    *]Do you agree that ANYONE who has received Christian Baptism and dies in a State of Grace is guaranteed admission into heaven?
    Yes.

    Lion Heart, I ask you directly: Do you answer “yes” unconditionally to each and every one of these questions?

    Yes.

    With love in Christ, LH

    If you reply, I sincerely ask that your reply include a response to either the individual questions, or at least a “yes” or “no” reply to my last question. If you wish to respond with more doctrinal spaghetti, please preface your response with an answer to this (or these) questions.
Click to expand...
 
thistle said:
That doesn’t make sense and is not what the Church teaches.

Nobody is saved while they are alive. You are only saved if you die in a state of grace.
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Greetings in Christ Thistle,

Quote: “You are only saved if you die in a state of grace.”
You are perfectly right Thistle. You are only saved if you die in a state of grace.

Thistle, do you know what it mean “in the state of grace”?
  1. According to Catholic teaching and the Scripture, being “in the state of grace” means:-
a. God has JUSTIFIED us:- At our justification God has DECLARED us just and declared us to be sons of God. – Rom.3:24.

b. God has RE-CREATED us:- At our re-creation God has MADE us sons of God. – Ez.36:26-27; Eph.2:1; Col.2:10-13.

c. God has SANCTIFIED us:- At our sanctification God has MADE us holy. – 1 Cor.6:11; Rev.1:5.

Justification, re-creation and sanctification is one composite with three parts in it.
If we understand the function of each part of them, we can have a deeper understanding.

OUR NEW SPIRITUAL POSITION AS BORN AGAIN:-

We are perfect and complete in the Body of Christ.

100% RE-CREATED (Born Again/New Creation).
100% JUSTIFIED.
100% SANCTIFIED.

We CAN NOT contribute to our salvation (justification, sanctification) even one iota.

In the Body of Christ, we are 100% saved, 100% justified and 100% sanctified. – We cannot add anything to it. It is God’s PRFECT gift.

OUR EVERLASTING LIFE IS THE GIFT OF GOD BY CHRIST’S MERIT.

Our salvation CAN NOT be improved by addition and as God’s elects to Heaven to lose it is a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

John 15:5 also states: If we are not in union (members of the body of Christ) with Christ, WE CAN DO NOTHING.

CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS COUNT FOR ANYTHING

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one MUST be in a STATE OF GRACE, MUST be a member of the BODY OF CHRIST, MUST be SAVED, MUST be already JUSTIFIED before we do a SINGLE WORK that counts for anything.

Quote: Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

If we are not saved and born again, we are NOT in the state of grace.
If we are die as unsaved then we CAN NOT die in the state of grace, we die under God’s condemnation without the possibility of salvation.

Can we know while we are alive that we have been saved?

According to Church teaching: If we have special revelation from God that we are saved, we can know.
Of course the church doesn’t mean a kind of special revelation that God appears to someone and says in a deep voice: “Thistle My son you are saved.”

God can reveal Himself to us in many different special ways.

FOR EXAMPLE:-

a. Our Faith. This is not just only His supernatural and special revelation to us, but His gift as well.

b. The Scripture. This is also His supernatural and special revelation to us, and His gift as well.

God’s very special message for you personally Thistle in John 5:24; John 3:16-18; Eph.2:8; 1 John 5:13:- “You may know that you have eternal life.”

a. If you don’t reject God’s gift of faith given to you then you “have been saved by faith.” You see, the condition is:- To believe it by God’s gift of faith. If you don’t reject God’s gift of faith then you believe, you have been saved and THEN and ONLY THEN you are in the state of grace.

b. If you Thistle reject God’s gift of faith with that rejection you also reject to believe God’s special revelation addressed by God personally to you Thistle, that you have been saved. Then you are not saved.

c. Being saved, being in the state of grace, being reconciled with God, Born Again, New creation, being member of the Body of Christ, being member of the invisible Church, GOES TOGETHER.

MEANING:-
  1. If you have one of them, then you have them all.
  2. It is a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY to have only one or two without to have the rest.
It is a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY that someone who is not saved can be in the state of grace.

It is also a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY that someone can be saved only after he has died.

If someone did not die as saved, then he did NOT die in the state of grace, but died under God’s condemnation and we all know where he is going.

THINK ABOUT IT; OUR SALVATION IS BY FAITH:-

If we believe by faith that we are saved, then we have the chance that we are saved.

But, if we reject God’s gift of faith and we don’t believe that we are saved, then we have THROWN AWAY the ONLY possibility that we can be saved.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
You are perfectly right Thistle. You are only saved if you die in a state of grace.

Thistle, do you know what it mean “in the state of grace”?
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I’m pretty sure he does. And I don’t think he needs any lessons from you.
Our salvation CAN NOT be improved by addition and as God’s elects to Heaven to lose it is a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.
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Most of your post seems to reflect Catholic teaching (though it’s hard to tell, as your posts are difficult to follow). But, here, you seem to be advocating the Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS) position, which has no place in truth.

Do you believe that once salvation is attained, it is impossible to loose?
 
DavidFilmer said:
I’m pretty sure he does. And I don’t think he needs any lessons from you.

Most of your post seems to reflect Catholic teaching (though it’s hard to tell, as your posts are difficult to follow). But, here, you seem to be advocating the Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS) position, which has no place in truth.

Do you believe that once salvation is attained, it is impossible to loose?
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Greetings in Christ DavidFilmer,

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, … has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote

Scripture Catholic by John Salza.
III. Predestination and the “Elect”
Quote: “There are two types of predestination, TO GRACE and TO GLORY. … Predestination is either to grace (which we could lose) or to glory (which we cannot lose). … 1 Tim.2:6 – Jesus Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all (not just for the elect). But only those predestined to glory will be saved.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE TWO CITATION
  1. All predestined to heaven will end up in Heaven. CAN BE NO EXCEPTION.
  2. All predestined to grace (even if they become Christians) they will all end up in hell. CAN BE NO EXCEPTION.
These doctrines above are official teachings of the Church.

If we look at the above picture we can see the mistake of the protestants.
They assume: Only those whom God predestined to Heaven become Christians.
So, they are saying: “Once saved always saved.”
Their mistake is: They don’t realize, not just only a predestined can be a Christian. – This is very clear from Hebr.6:4-6.

If they would say: “All predestined to heaven end up in Heaven” they would be right.
In fact: “Once saved always saved,” and “All predestined to heaven end up in Heaven,” based on the same principle.

The mistakes of some Catholics who are not familiar with related Catholic doctrines, conclude: If a Christian can end up in hell, then any Christian can end up in hell.

They don’t realize those Christians whom God has predestined to Heaven in fact CAN NOT end up in hell and cannot die outside the state of grace.

According to Catholic doctrine which comes from the above doctrine: Those who are not predestined to heaven cannot die in the state of grace.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
Greetings in Christ,

Without going into the fine details, our Church teach two main types of merit. CONGRUENT MERIT and CONDIGN MERIT.

CONGRUENT MERIT:-

Congruent merit refers to GAINING MERIT FOR OTHERS.
Christ’s merit on the cross was CONGRUENT MERIT, His congruent merit gained for us the gift of salvation, the gift of final perseverance, healing, gifts of the Spirit, etc.

CONDIGN MERIT:-

The beneficiary is THE PERSON who performs the condign merit.
This CONDIGN MERIT called supernatural merit or good works.
We are cooperating with the grace of God and God works through us.

This works involved getting more holy (work on to improve our sanctification) and more just (work on to be more just in ourselves). Proclaim the Gospel to everyone, doing charity works.

For Christ’s CONGRUENT MERIT we have (salvation) God’s gift OF heaven.

For our CONDIGN MERIT God has promised us reward IN heaven.
This CONDIGN MERIT sometimes called supernatural merit or good works.

CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS COUNT FOR ANYTHING:-

The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one MUST be in a STATE OF GRACE, MUST be a member of the BODY OF CHRIST, MUST be SAVED, MUST be already JUSTIFIED before we do a SINGLE WORK that counts for anything.

Further conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL merit possible:

“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin
Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasis mine.

In my opinion:-
a. The interpretation of any Bible verse which we conclude; work is a condition of our salvation, that conclusion is incorrect.

b. The interpretation of any Church doctrine which we conclude; work is a condition of our salvation, that conclusion is also incorrect.

c. Unless we believe work is not a condition of our salvation, we can never do good works that God accepts, because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation and not for Love and for the Glory of God.

To believe work is NOT a condition of our salvation PRECEDES good works.

I would like to have the view of the members on the conditions of supernatural merit/good works.

With love in Christ,
LH
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**
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. - **Revelation 20:12
 
fhansen said:
**
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. - **Revelation 20:12
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Greetings in Christ Fhansen,

John 5:24; “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life.”

The explanation is in Revelation 20:4-6.
The first resurrection is for the Christians. Only their WORK will be judged described in 1 Cor.3:10-15.
They CAN NOT lose their salvation. Please read the text.

Revelation 20:11-15; Is the judgment of those who has died without faith in the Scripture. They will be judged according to their works.
From the text it seems like some of them will be saved in the way as it is described in [CCC 1260].

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
Greetings in Christ Fhansen,

John 5:24; “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life.”

The explanation is in Revelation 20:4-6.
The first resurrection is for the Christians. Only their WORK will be judged described in 1 Cor.3:10-15.
They CAN NOT lose their salvation. Please read the text.

Revelation 20:11-15; Is the judgment of those who has died without faith in the Scripture. They will be judged according to their works.
From the text it seems like some of them will be saved in the way as it is described in [CCC 1260].

With love in Christ,
LH
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We’ll actually all be judged…by our love. We have to understand what Paul was getting at, not relying on a handful of verses for our theology or else we’ll remain hopelessly mired in a sort of stunted Protestant-think. The bible is not a catechism-and was never meant to be. To the extent we use it as such all kinds of errors easily creep in. But even at that, there are* waaayyy* too many verses, such as the one I cited, that point us to the understanding that God wants more from us-and for us-than mere faith and forgiveness of sin. He wants us righteous, the way He simply created us to be: to go, and sin no more.

The reason faith is so essential to our justification is not that it’s a sort of magic wand that, by itself, makes everything OK while in actuality everything is* not* OK-while we’re still not truly just IOW. The reason faith is essential is because it reestablishes communion with God, the life in us spoken of in John 5:24, which you quoted and which is the only true means to justice for man; faith, alone, is worthless unless it leads to justification, which faith doesn’t *necessarily *lead to. In order to be in right standing with God- to be authentically just-faith will have to continue on to hope, and most importantly then, to love. This is a work of His that we cooperate in. And so we must persist/persevere in these virtues, because that life spoken of in John 5:24 can be forfeited, just as Adam originally forfeited his:

**“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. **John 15

**28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.e 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
32“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. **Mark 12:28-34

God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Rom 2:6

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom 2:13

Love produces works/obedience by its nature, and “love fulfills the law”. The Atonement doesn’t provide us with an escape from our obligation to God, from obedience to Him, rather it provides us with the authentic means to that obedience. As we grow in love, as we grow in justice, IOW, we begin to obey* willingly*, which is the very reason why Jesus’s burden is light instead of heavy; His burden is light, not non-existent.

The only thing that counts is faith working through love. Gal 5:6

Read Matt 25:31-46 to see what we’re judged on-the kind of works that love produces. St John of the Cross could put all this in succinct terms:

**At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love. **
 
fhansen said:
We’ll actually all be judged…by our love.

The only thing that counts is faith working through love. Gal 5:6

Read Matt 25:31-46 to see what we’re judged on-the kind of works that love produces. St John of the Cross could put all this in succinct terms:

**At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love. **
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Greetings in Christ Fhansen,

The Church teaches that we are saved by “Grace ALONE, SOLELY on account of the work of Christ.” (Basic Catholic Beliefs, Doctrines, Ideas, Practices, and Customs.)
Another way to put it, means the same thing (Catholics permitted to believe):- We have been saved by “(formed) faith alone.

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier
Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan
Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985
Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become righteous and be saved? We are NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE by James Akin
Quote: “In fact, in TRADITIONAL WORKS OF CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, one regularly encounters the statement that FORMED FAITH IS JUSTIFYING FAITH. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period. End quote. (It is on the internet, every Catholic and Protestant should read and study it.)

Sola fide formata = (formed) FAITH ALONE
THE COMPOSITE OF GOD’S GIFT OF FAITH:

a. BELIEF ……. (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)
b. HOPE ……… (Unconditional TRUST in God.)
c. CHARITY …. (Unconditional LOVE for God.)

Faith also includes Baptism of Desire.

To freely accept the GIFT OF FAITH, “THE WILL IS PREPARED BY THE LORD.” – Canon 4 of the Council of Orange (529 AD); John 6:44-45.

This formed faith (baptism of desire included to formed faith) produces INSTANT JUSTIFICATION and INSTANT SALVATION without water baptism and without sacraments, [CCC 1249]; Acts 10:44-48.

As 1.2 billion Catholic in the world, probably millions of catechumens in heaven who never had water baptism or any sacrament.

At the point of our conversion, (makes no difference that a person is Catholic or Protestant), “God raises us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” (Eph.2:6)

Quote: “AUGUSTINE’S CONTRIBUTION TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.
We are inserted into the Body of Christ by our baptism and become members united to the Head, so that while our feet may be on earth we are already in heaven.” End quote.
The above quote taken from a public letter of Paul Maloney OSA Written September 19th 2012

So those who are saying we are not saved until we are in heaven, they are perfectly right, because at our conversion God takes us up to heaven.

Continued on the next post
 
Continuation

CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS COUNT FOR ANYTHING
The Catholic Church clearly teaches that one MUST be in a STATE OF GRACE, MUST be a member of the BODY OF CHRIST, MUST be SAVED, MUST be already JUSTIFIED before we do a SINGLE WORK that counts for anything.

Further conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL merit possible:

“The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church.” (Denzinger 1576, 1582)

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin
Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.
This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasis mine.

If we believe: Work is condition of our salvation, then our works can NEVER BE UP TO THE ABOVE STANDARDS because we do it for ourselves to purchase salvation not for love and for the Glory of God, and ALL our work goes up in smoke at the judgment of 1 Cor.3:11-15.

This is THE DIVIDING LINE between true religion and false religion.

The members of true religion working FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY, NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP them SOMEHOW but for SHEER LOVE of God and for HIS GLORY.

They can do it because they KNOW they have the IRREVACABLE God’s gift of everlasting life.

CANNOT BE OVER EMPHASIZE: This is THE KEY to do supernatural merit that God accepts and recognize!!! – There is NO other way to achieve supernatural merit which is the only good works.

The members of false religions working for God’s FREE GIFT OF SALVATION. In an uncertain and fired hope that by the end of their life enough works done and for their merit they deserve salvation.

We don’t know who the elects are, only God can see their faith.
Christ has declared in His MOST SOLEMN STATEMENT (John 5:24) who the elects are, but we can’t see their faith.

WE ONLY KNOW WHAT CHRIST HAS PROCLAMED IN JOHN 5:24
  1. The elects to Heaven HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
    MEANING: The elects has God’s GIFT OF EVERLASTING LIFE which can NEVER be revoked. (It is un-revocable. Rom.11:29)
TO HAVE CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT EVERLATING LIFE MEANS:
God’s gift of EVERLASTING LIFE is NOT periodical LIFE and DEATH. God’s gift is EVERLASTING LIFE.
Periodical LIFE and DEATH is NOT everlasting life.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, … has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of FAITH is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees FAITH as FUNDAMENTAL in justification. FOR WITHOUT FAITH, NO JUSTIFICATION CAN TAKE PLACE. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the RENEWAL OF LIFE by justifying grace, this RENEWAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and CONTRIBUTES NOTHING TO JUSTIFICATION

Our salvation PRECEDES our cooperation with the grace of God.
So, to work on to be more JUST and HOLY is the FRUIT of our salvation NOT the cause of it.

The fruits of our salvation CAN NOT be contributed to our salvation. This is our SUPERNATURAL MERIT and the other is GOD’S GIFT OF SALVATION.

The two do NOT MIX!!!

The fruits of our salvation is our supernatural merit. God rewards it IN heaven.

Performing the sacraments and to the our other works is our supernatural merit.
Our supernatural merit CAN NOT be contributed to our salvation.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
Lion_Heart said:
Greetings in Christ Fhansen,

John 5:24; “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life.”

The explanation is in Revelation 20:4-6.
The first resurrection is for the Christians. Only their WORK will be judged described in 1 Cor.3:10-15.
They CAN NOT lose their salvation. Please read the text.

Revelation 20:11-15; Is the judgment of those who has died without faith in the Scripture. They will be judged according to their works.
From the text it seems like some of them will be saved in the way as it is described in [CCC 1260].

With love in Christ,
LH
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You seem to misinterpret this passage in Revelation to confirm the Protestant doctrine of two judgements- which is heresy. The Church teaches that we will all be judged together, the entire human race, regardless of belief.
 
JamesTheJust said:
You seem to misinterpret this passage in Revelation to confirm the Protestant doctrine of two judgements- which is heresy. The Church teaches that we will all be judged together, the entire human race, regardless of belief.
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Greetings in Christ JamesTheJust,

It is common knowledge in our Catholic Church:-
CHRIST IS THE HEAD and THE SUPREME ruler of the Catholic Church.

His WORDS are the WORDS of the Catholic Church.
His TEACHINGS are the TEACHINGS of the Catholic Church.
His DOCTRINES are the DOCTRINES of the Catholic Church.

John 5:24; “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and BELIEVES IN HIM who sent Me has everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life.”

The above WORDS, TEACHING and DOCTRINE:-
THE WORDS, TEACHING and DOCTRINE of the Catholic Church.

JamesTheJust, Please study very carefully the following Bible verses:-
What you will read might surprise you.

Acts 20:29-32; Matt.7:15-16; Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4, 11, 24; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 1 Tim.4:1-3; 2 Pet.2:1-3; Jude 4.

With love in Christ,
LH
 
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