The differnce between Reformed and Calvinist

[jwright82]

Time magazine, I beleive, labeled the movement known as The New Calvinism as one of the most significant movements in America today. That makes me pause because being Reformed, truly Calvinist, is much different than what these people beleive it is. Calvinism is strictly speaking a theory of salvation only, being Reformed (like being Catholic involves more) and cannot be truly Reformed by itself. The Reformed tradition is some what like the Catholic tradition, but in fundemental disagreement at certian points. I wanted to point out that being Calvinist is not the same thing as being Reformed, but all Reformed are Calvinist.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Time magazine, I beleive, labeled the movement known as The New Calvinism as one of the most significant movements in America today. That makes me pause because being Reformed, truly Calvinist, is much different than what these people beleive it is. Calvinism is strictly speaking a theory of salvation only, being Reformed (like being Catholic involves more) and cannot be truly Reformed by itself.

I thought Calvin’s Institutes dealt with a lot more than just salvation. Based on that I would say that Calvinism is a religion, not a bare soteriological doctrine.

 

[jwright82]

I thought Calvin’s Institutes dealt with a lot more than just salvation. Based on that I would say that Calvinism is a religion, not a bare soteriological doctrine.

You are absolutly correct. The so-called new Calvinist movement generaly only subscribes to Calvin’s theory of salvation. But like Catholocism, the Reformed Tradition is much more than just that. So differentiate myself from that group, that is why I prefer Reformed over Calvinist, although all Reformed are Calvinist as well, if that makes sense?

 

[Esdra]

You are absolutly correct. The so-called new Calvinist movement generaly only subscribes to Calvin’s theory of salvation. But like Catholocism, the Reformed Tradition is much more than just that. So differentiate myself from that group, that is why I prefer Reformed over Calvinist, although all Reformed are Calvinist as well, if that makes sense?

In the Reformed Tradition not only Calvin is a “Church Father” but also Zwingli, Bullinger and Brucer.

The Reformed Evangelical Churches are not only based on Calvin, but also on other Swiss Reformators.
In addition to that there are also different creeds/confessions that make up Reformed Theology. Like the Westminster Creed, or the Helvetic Creed etc.

Esdra

 

[jwright82]

In the Reformed Tradition not only Calvin is a “Church Father” but also Zwingli, Bullinger and Brucer.

The Reformed Evangelical Churches are not only based on Calvin, but also on other Swiss Reformators.
In addition to that there are also different creeds/confessions that make up Reformed Theology. Like the Westminster Creed, or the Helvetic Creed etc.

Esdra

I agree. I primaraly subscribe to the Westminster Confessions, but secondaraly I subscribe to the other Reformed Confessions, I study the Lutheran Confessions as well.

 

[Esdra]

I agree. I primaraly subscribe to the Westminster Confessions, but secondaraly I subscribe to the other Reformed Confessions, I study the Lutheran Confessions as well.

I am in an (European) Baptist Church. [That’s important, as Baptists in the US and those in Europe are completely different!].

I have recently studied the Heidelberg Catechism and the Helvetic Confession.
And I have to admit that I can go with all the points there (except maybe infant baptism).
I was astonished how near the Reformed Evangelical Churches are to the Baptists. (Not the US Baptists, as I can’t speak for them!)

Esdra

 

[jwright82]

I am in an (European) Baptist Church. [That’s important, as Baptists in the US and those in Europe are completely different!].

I have recently studied the Heidelberg Catechism and the Helvetic Confession.
And I have to admit that I can go with all the points there (except maybe infant baptism).
I was astonished how near the Reformed Evangelical Churches are to the Baptists. (Not the US Baptists, as I can’t speak for them!)

Esdra

I am curious what are the differences between European and US Baptists? I love those confessions as well. Do you like the Canons of Dordt?

 

[Esdra]

I am curious what are the differences between European and US Baptists? I love those confessions as well. Do you like the Canons of Dordt?

Well first of all European Baptists are minority Churches. [The German wikipedia is good on this. The English, sadly enough, less…]
Secondly they are normally not anti-Catholic.
Thirdly, they don’t see themselves as “American Sects” (meaning descendents from US Baptists) but that they are descendents of the “Baptism-movement” which arose in the Swiss Reformation in Zuerich in the 16th century.

Especially in the Tyrol, the county I live in, the “Baptists” there are proud to say that they are descendents of the Hutterites and Jakob Hutter (which you certainly know, as they migrated in the 18th century from Europe to North America). Jakob Hutter lived in South Tyrol (which is in the meantime a part of Italy; but was in the 16th century part of the Tyrol and the Empire of Austria-Hungary).

I have never heard about the Canons of Dordt before. I just had a glimpse on reformed.org to get an idea!

Esdra

 

[Augsburg1530]

Time magazine, I beleive, labeled the movement known as The New Calvinism as one of the most significant movements in America today. That makes me pause because being Reformed, truly Calvinist, is much different than what these people beleive it is. Calvinism is strictly speaking a theory of salvation only, being Reformed (like being Catholic involves more) and cannot be truly Reformed by itself. The Reformed tradition is some what like the Catholic tradition, but in fundemental disagreement at certian points. I wanted to point out that being Calvinist is not the same thing as being Reformed, but all Reformed are Calvinist.

The Time magazine article, sadly, resorts to the lowest common denominator by labeling preachers like Mark Driscoll or John Piper “New Calvinists.” I don’t even think that Calvinist over Reformed is an apt label. Baptists who held to the five points were traditionally referred to as Particular Baptists (vs. General Baptists, who held to a universal atonement). Referring to anyone who holds to the five points as Calvinist or Reformed would be equivalent to calling you a Lutheran because you hold to justification sola fide.

 

[jwright82]

Well first of all European Baptists are minority Churches. [The German wikipedia is good on this. The English, sadly enough, less…]
Secondly they are normally not anti-Catholic.
Thirdly, they don’t see themselves as “American Sects” (meaning descendents from US Baptists) but that they are descendents of the “Baptism-movement” which arose in the Swiss Reformation in Zuerich in the 16th century.

Especially in the Tyrol, the county I live in, the “Baptists” there are proud to say that they are descendents of the Hutterites and Jakob Hutter (which you certainly know, as they migrated in the 18th century from Europe to North America). Jakob Hutter lived in South Tyrol (which is in the meantime a part of Italy; but was in the 16th century part of the Tyrol and the Empire of Austria-Hungary).

I have never heard about the Canons of Dordt before. I just had a glimpse on reformed.org to get an idea!

Esdra

Wow thank you for the info, I love learning things that I do not know!

 

[jwright82]

The Time magazine article, sadly, resorts to the lowest common denominator by labeling preachers like Mark Driscoll or John Piper “New Calvinists.” I don’t even think that Calvinist over Reformed is an apt label. Baptists who held to the five points were traditionally referred to as Particular Baptists (vs. General Baptists, who held to a universal atonement). Referring to anyone who holds to the five points as Calvinist or Reformed would be equivalent to calling you a Lutheran because you hold to justification sola fide.

You are correct. These New Calvinists are on the right track but they tend to be ignorant of other slightly more important aspects of what being Reformed is. A lot of people tend to equate predestination or God’s absolute sovierghnty as the most important elements of the Reformed faith. Now these elements are very important, non-negotiable, but we come to these beleifs withen a wider matrix of what is called Covenant Theology. I say though, contra many conservative Reformed people, that we should be reaching out to these, largley young people (what am I saying I am only 27), to show them that there is so much more to being Reformed than the 5 points.

 

[Esdra]

Wow thank you for the info, I love learning things that I do not know!

It was a pleasure to me.
I think it’s really important to differentiate between American and European Baptists.

 

[Esdra]

Hi all,

this is an attempt to explain you what the differences between US and European Baptists are. - As I have been asked the one or other occasion.

I am in an (European) Baptist Church. [That’s important, as Baptists in the US and those in Europe are completely different!].

I have recently studied the Heidelberg Catechism and the Helvetic Confession.
And I have to admit that I can go with all the points there (except maybe infant baptism).
I was astonished how near the Reformed Evangelical Churches are to the Baptists. (Not the US Baptists, as I can’t speak for them!)

Esdra

I am curious what are the differences between European and US Baptists? I love those confessions as well. Do you like the Canons of Dordt?

Well first of all European Baptists are minority Churches. [The German wikipedia is good on this. The English, sadly enough, less…]
Secondly they are normally not anti-Catholic.
Thirdly, they don’t see themselves as “American Sects” (meaning descendents from US Baptists) but that they are descendents of the “Baptism-movement” which arose in the Swiss Reformation in Zuerich in the 16th century.

Especially in the Tyrol, the county I live in, the “Baptists” there are proud to say that they are descendents of the Hutterites and Jakob Hutter (which you certainly know, as they migrated in the 18th century from Europe to North America). Jakob Hutter lived in South Tyrol (which is in the meantime a part of Italy; but was in the 16th century part of the Tyrol and the Empire of Austria-Hungary).

I have never heard about the Canons of Dordt before. I just had a glimpse on reformed.org to get an idea!