The Dignity of Men

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friardchips said:
Our Lord already achieved this. And Our Lady followed. Men and women, sisters and brothers, need to walk hand in hand to achieve this, in Spirit. Men AND women saints, to set the example. Not disagreeing with you, I just think there is another half to add on to this fine quote! šŸ˜ƒ Maybe it is true that men donā€™t step up. I think the part about ā€˜silenceā€™ is profound and especially relevant today. šŸ‘
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Are people seriously this dense? The posts are about manhood! Thatā€™s it Manhoodā€¦not manhood plus womenhood for the sake of being all inclusiveā€¦or PC. ITs about being a man. The entire blog is about man hood, male saints, beer, cigars, bacon, manly things Jesus said etcā€¦

Is it really that hard for people to comprehend this? Seriously? Can one thing about reclaiming manhood be posted on these forums without people slamming it as sexist, or filling the com boxes up with stuff about women? Or the extreme as the above poster said apparently its not catholic in his opinionā€¦geez donā€™t you read JPII? Seriously dude get a life that ā€œyour interpretationā€. Wow im absolutely baffled here.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
Are people seriously this dense? The posts are about manhood! Thatā€™s it Manhoodā€¦not manhood plus womenhood for the sake of being all inclusiveā€¦or PC. ITs about being a man. The entire blog is about man hood, male saints, beer, cigars, bacon, manly things Jesus said etcā€¦

Is it really that hard for people to comprehend this? Seriously? Can one thing about reclaiming manhood be posted on these forums without people slamming it as sexist, or filling the com boxes up with stuff about women? Or the extreme as the above poster said apparently its not catholic in his opinionā€¦geez donā€™t you read JPII? Seriously dude get a life that ā€œyour interpretationā€. Wow im absolutely baffled here.
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What is life without woman?! Bacon, cheeseburgers, cigars, manly turd, isnā€™t that saintly, to be honest.

Do at least try to make sense! šŸ˜ƒ

Or is the conclusion here to be had that it basically just doesnā€™t!
 
friardchips said:
What is life without woman?! Bacon, cheeseburgers, cigars, manly turd, isnā€™t that saintly, to be honest.

Do at least try to make sense! šŸ˜ƒ

Or is the conclusion here to be had that it basically just doesnā€™t!
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Well those things certainly make life more fun! especially bacon! šŸ˜ƒ
 
ā€¦Iā€™m being harsh, it is your thread, would you like me to find you a cape?! šŸ˜‰
 
friardchips said:
What is life without woman?! Bacon, cheeseburgers, cigars, manly turd, isnā€™t that saintly, to be honest.

Do at least try to make sense! šŸ˜ƒ

Or is the conclusion here to be had that it basically just doesnā€™t!
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Hold on a sec ill be back in 8 months after im done reading JPII theology of the body all 129 sections so I can learn about manhood from a proper place. :mad:
 
eightydeuce82 said:
Hold on a sec ill be back in 8 months after im done reading JPII theology of the body all 129 sections so I can learn about manhood from a proper place. :mad:
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Life is about learning. We canā€™t do that when revisiting Mars. Women are part of the deal. They never originated from Venus. šŸ˜›
 
friardchips said:
Life is about learning. We canā€™t do that when revisiting Mars. Women are part of the deal. They never originated from Venus. šŸ˜›
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Of course they are and a huge part at that! No one and not one of my posts on manhood have discredited, demoralized, or shunned women! Not a single one. Alas all the heros show up to throw the ā€œthatā€™s not catholicā€ stuff every time with out fail. The old donā€™t you read the bible and follow it with their private interpretation of what that particular verse means. Pretty sure the church has only defined you guessed it a whole 3 :eek: verses in the bible. The rest is you guessed it up to usā€¦as long as the church agrees of course.

theology of the Body is wonderful BTW! It really is but its not dogma :eek:. So there is that.
 
You did bring up the subject of radical feminism and if you are going to do that then you could allow for opinions on such things (just to make sure that is covered) and you did mention manhood being under attack and so could allow for opinions with possible explanation for some of that too.

But as I see it, you have mixed up various types of man anyway: the saint and the worldly man. They are not the same. Or not always. They do not in many cases cover the same territory In sainthood, the man often swerves dramatically into a caring feminine quality - this feminine might be covered in the manliness though. After all, men and women came from He Who IS. IOW, does Father contain the feminine?! (Patriarchal, as you said).

It is important to define saint from worldly man and his bravado.
 
friardchips said:
You did bring up the subject of radical feminism and if you are going to do that then you could allow for opinions on such things (just to make sure that is covered) and you did mention manhood being under attack and so could allow for opinions with possible explanation for some of that too.

But as I see it, you have mixed up various types of man anyway: the saint and the worldly man. They are not the same. Or not always. They do not in many cases cover the same territory In sainthood, the man often swerves dramatically into a caring feminine quality - this feminine might be covered in the manliness though. After all, men and women came from He Who IS. IOW, does Father contain the feminine?! (Patriarchal, as you said).

It is important to define saint from worldly man and his bravado.
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Iā€™m not sure how I have mixed up either since this topic isnā€™t really on the worldly man and I welcome all topics but what I donā€™t welcome is the thatā€™s not catholic stuff.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
There is a famine abroad on the earth, a famine not of bread, for we have had too much of that and our luxury has made us forget God; a famine not of gold, for the glitter of so much of that has blinded us to the meaning of the twinkle of the stars; but a famine of a more serious kind, and one which threatens nearly every country in the world ā€“ the famine of really great men. In other words, the world today is suffering from a terrible nemesis of mediocrity. We are dying of ordinariness; we are perishing from our pettiness.

The worldā€™s greatest need is great men, someone who will understand that there is no greater conquest than victory over oneself; someone who will realize that the real worth is achieved, not so much by activity, as by silence; someone who will seek the Kingdom of God and His justice, and put into actual practice the law that it is only by dying to the life of the body that we ever live to the life of the spirit; someone who will brave the taunts of a Good Friday to win the joy of Easter Sunday; who will, like a lightning-flash, burn away the bonds of feeble interests which tie down our energies to the world; who, with a fearless voice, like John the Baptist, will arouse our enfeebled nature out of the sleek dream of unheroic repose; who will gain victories, not by stepping down from the Cross and compromising with the world, but who will suffer in order to conquer the world.

In a word, what we need are saints, for saints are the truly great men. ā€¦ I assume without further ado that the grace of God is the one thing necessary, and that God will give that grace to those who do His will.

ā€“ Venerable Fulton J. Sheen, The Worldā€™s Greatest Need (Address delivered January 31, 1932)
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I found this thread to be thought-provoking, for many reasons. Maybe not the reasons you envisaged might ensue. What I found though, is that this is more of a thread to read, and go ā€œhmm, okay thenā€. Not sure where the discussion takes place? I think of people as pretty amazing but I think we are all also fallible to a fault. And history has proved this. Myself included. We have to learn to fail. And be humble when we do. Something I need to learn. Cathedrals, rockets in space, law and order, is all as easy to tare down as it is to build. It means nothing, ultimately. All superficial.

In contrast, sainthood is not grace due to the efforts of man or woman. Grace is from our Creator. It is His power. We are nothing without Him. And to believe anything else is to not understand that we canā€™t do anything without Him. We canā€™t do what the quote above says without first admitting our utterly foolish and pathetic nothingness. We can give way for He who IS though. Be silent in thanks to Him. But ā€œgreat menā€?! Hmm.

It is just that you said you wanted to ā€œcelebrate mankindā€. I canā€™t celebrate mankind because I think man has failed and continues to go astray. We all have. But as part of the post above says: we can put our trust in our Creator. So there is hope at least for salvation even after all this dismal failure.

But that is not all. I find it hard to celebrate mankind without giving tribute to our Lordā€™s Holy Mother, who was and is not a man. I think man is utterly feeble without her support in helping us to be more like her Son. So by all means letā€™s celebrate, by first admitting our failure, as I see that it is us who put the nails in to the cross and Our Lady who was left to take care of the consequences, then letā€™s go on to celebrate her, as she pities us.

A man is someone who learns how to trust like a child.

A saint is someone who knows how to lose for our Creator and be thankful for it at the end of each day.
 
friardchips said:
I found this thread to be thought-provoking, for many reasons. Maybe not the reasons you envisaged might ensue. What I found though, is that this is more of a thread to read, and go ā€œhmm, okay thenā€. Not sure where the discussion takes place? I think of people as pretty amazing but I think we are all also fallible to a fault. And history has proved this. Myself included. We have to learn to fail. And be humble when we do. Something I need to learn. Cathedrals, rockets in space, law and order, is all as easy to tare down as it is to build. It means nothing, ultimately. All superficial.

In contrast, sainthood is not grace due to the efforts of man or woman. Grace is from our Creator. It is His power. We are nothing without Him. And to believe anything else is to not understand that we canā€™t do anything without Him. We canā€™t do what the quote above says without first admitting our utterly foolish and pathetic nothingness. We can give way for He who IS though. Be silent in thanks to Him. But ā€œgreat menā€?! Hmm.

It is just that you said you wanted to ā€œcelebrate mankindā€. I canā€™t celebrate mankind because I think man has failed and continues to go astray. We all have. But as part of the post above says: we can put our trust in our Creator. So there is hope at least for salvation even after all this dismal failure.

But that is not all. I find it hard to celebrate mankind without giving tribute to our Lordā€™s Holy Mother, who was and is not a man. I think man is utterly feeble without her support in helping us to be more like her Son. So by all means letā€™s celebrate, by first admitting our failure, as I see that it is us who put the nails in to the cross and Our Lady who was left to take care of the consequences, then letā€™s go on to celebrate her, as she pities us.

A man is someone who learns how to trust like a child.

A saint is someone who knows how to lose for our Creator and be thankful for it at the end of each day.
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I get ya but I donā€™t have a hard time celebrating people made in the image and likeness of God with out first pitying myself because of my failures in some kind of pre celebration disclaimer. Here in lies the problem had this been a post of great womanhood none of this discussion would have taken place. There would have been a bunch of Amenā€™s in the comboxes. You know it too.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
I get ya but I donā€™t have a hard time celebrating people made in the image and likeness of God with out first pitying myself because of my failures in some kind of pre celebration disclaimer.
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:ouch: Then you havenā€™t understood a thing I wrote. Shame, because I thought you might.
Here in lies the problem had this been a post of great womanhood none of this discussion would have taken place. There would have been a bunch of Amenā€™s in the comboxes. You know it too.
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A nice sounding thread; regarding the content, we are not on the same page, or even in the same book, it seems.

So letā€™s cut a long story short before we lessen our life spans any longer on thisā€¦ šŸ‘‹
 
MarcoPolo said:
Please donā€™t be vague. Please explain what ā€œmen do not lose outā€ means.
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Sorry. But that is what I mean: Men donā€™t lose out. It is up to us what we do. How we do it. How we perceive. How we treat. How we listen. How we take care. And how we respect. Women bear the brunt of a lot of the consequences because men donā€™t want to. We blame abortion on women when they are the victims due to a lack of support and social commitment normally by men in power or local government who set a bad example. Anything anti-family is convenient for men. Ultimately. And women pick up the pieces (one example). I know this a generalisation but the facts are there. We donā€™t think. We think we have it bad, maybe not, maybe we think we have it good. But it is women who take the real strain and are not commended for it at the end of the day. We give a big pat on our own backs and think we are the ones who are achieving everything. I wonder how many unsung heros were there quietly behind the scences, who helped men compromise and think twice, or stand by and encourage further. There is nothing wrong with the thread, IMO. It is rather nicely written and is talking about a particular idea or concept of mankind. And it is on one level. However, there are many levels, and for both genders. But the real all encompassing truth is that men are weak and would not get anywhere without the support of our female sisters, either by prayer, or a supportive word. And spiritually, not without our Holy Mother. I think our Lord was very close to the women He met because He truly valued them. And we only have to study Scripture a bit deeper to see the compassion He felt for them. The tendency now is to think that extreme feminism is to blame, but this is an excuse to start revving up the bravado again; I believe to the contrary. Women do not trust men enough to go ahead with having families or they feel pressured into doing stupid things. Young people grow up thinking marriages are a waste of time and as a consuquence donā€™t think there is any point for them to enter into such a commitment. To sum up, the more that we leave nothing for our pride, the more we can appreciate the Cross. And bear it. Is this manly? Or is it simply Christian? (I think, the latter).
 
Well, IIRC there were a few holy men who were accused of being less than manly in their time. The Blessed John Henry Newman was a recent one, off the top of my mind.
 
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