The Disciples of Jesus

[George_Waters]

After almost fifteen years of marriage my wife and I were blessed with the birth of our first child in June. We named him Nathaniel, as we truly believe he is a “gift from God”. Does Islam hold the disciples of Jesus in any special regard as it does the companions of Mohammed?

Peace

George

 

[Faith101]

George Waters:

After almost fifteen years of marriage my wife and I were blessed with the birth of our first child in June. We named him Nathaniel, as we truly believe he is a “gift from God”. Does Islam hold the disciples of Jesus in any special regard as it does the companions of Mohammed?

Peace

George

Congratulations

Thats an interesting question… from what i know, we dont reallly know too much about them. They are mentioned in the Quran as those who supported Jesus peace be upon him when everyone else didnt…example (Jesus speaking)

'…; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

‘It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.’"

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah.” Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness." (Quran 3:50-53)

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Thats an interesting question… from what i know, we dont reallly know too much about them. They are mentioned in the Quran as those who supported Jesus peace be upon him when everyone else didnt…example (Jesus speaking)

'…; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

‘It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.’"

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah.” Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness." (Quran 3:50-53)

Jesus had 12 apostles whom he chose as his closest followers who shared their lives with him and thus can be considered first hand witnesses to Jesus. Later on after the resurrection, these apostles, by the power of the Holy Spirit were able to do miracles which Jesus himself had done. It was them or their immediate students who wrote most of the New Testament of the Bible after being inspired by the Holy Spirit on what to write and record down.

Outside this circle there were the 72 disciples mentioned in the Gospels whom Jesus commisioned to go out to bring the good news about him. They were sent like lambs among wolves. They were not to take a purse or a sandal (See Luke 10) . When they came back they reported that the name of Jesus is very powerful that even the demon obeyed their command. Jesus told them they should be glad rather for the fact that their names were written in heaven.

Then there were just followers of Jesus like the group of women who followed and supported him.

The apostles, the disciples and the mentioned followers were personal witnesses of Jesus. Later on, most of them were matryed at the hands of the Jews or the Romans who persecuted them. They died willingly for their belief and nothing else. No money, power or material things.

Interesting isn’t it, the disciples. What about Mohammad. Is there anything similar about his followers or those who were close to him?

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

Jesus had 12 apostles whom he chose as his closest followers who shared their lives with him and thus can be considered first hand witnesses to Jesus. Later on after the resurrection, these apostles, by the power of the Holy Spirit were able to do miracles which Jesus himself had done. It was them or their immediate students who wrote most of the New Testament of the Bible after being inspired by the Holy Spirit on what to write and record down.

Outside this circle there were the 72 disciples mentioned in the Gospels whom Jesus commisioned to go out to bring the good news about him. They were sent like lambs among wolves. They were not to take a purse or a sandal (See Luke 10) . When they came back they reported that the name of Jesus is very powerful that even the demon obeyed their command. Jesus told them they should be glad rather for the fact that their names were written in heaven.

Then there were just followers of Jesus like the group of women who followed and supported him.

The apostles, the disciples and the mentioned followers were personal witnesses of Jesus. Later on, most of them were matryed at the hands of the Jews or the Romans who persecuted them. They died willingly for their belief and nothing else. No money, power or material things.

Interesting isn’t it, the disciples. What about Mohammad. Is there anything similar about his followers or those who were close to him?

Similiar in terms of giving up their lives for the message that there is no diety worthy of worship but Allah alone and that Mohamed was his last messenger

In terms of miracles, i always thought that it was unique for Muslims not to depend on them. For instance, every religion in the world (from Christianity to Hinduism) is always claiming miracles in the name of their religion to this day. THey claim to have seen something out of the ordinary…proof that their religion is the truth.

While Mohamed peace be upon him had his miracles just like all the other messengers, Muslims dont depend on them nor do they draw conclusions that because of this or that miracle, Islam is the truth.

The Quran is the ultimate mircale. One that is witnessed by every single person who has an open heart. It is not an image in the sky…but a spirtual light that continues to guide thousands of people back to the worship of God. No wonder its the fastest growing religion on earth.

i iknow that was off topic…but with all the miracle talk…i just wanted to say that.

 

[exoflare]

Reuben J:

Interesting isn’t it, the disciples. What about Mohammad. Is there anything similar about his followers or those who were close to him?

groan ~ NOT more setup questions… :crying:

For the love of cake, stop the madness. LOL

 

[Reuben_J]

groan ~ NOT more setup questions… :crying:

For the love of cake, stop the madness. LOL

Can you please elaborate?

My question would eventually lead to comparison between the followers of Jesus and Mohammad. This is important because the followers, to much extend were responsible for the reproduction of the Bible and the the Quran (and hadith) that we have today.

Good understanding of the followers from explanation from the Muslims would put the source of the holy books into better perspective in future discussion.

But if you think otherwise, please let me know.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Similiar in terms of giving up their lives for the message that there is no diety worthy of worship but Allah alone and that Mohamed was his last messenger

In terms of miracles, i always thought that it was unique for Muslims not to depend on them. For instance, every religion in the world (from Christianity to Hinduism) is always claiming miracles in the name of their religion to this day. THey claim to have seen something out of the ordinary…proof that their religion is the truth.

Christianity don’t claim miracles to proof that it is true. For whatever happen, there is always a reason for them in God’s plan for every individual. Miracle, like healing from physical sickness sometimes can lead a person to realize the presence of God in his/her life. This sometimes can trigger profound personal conversion and increase of faith. Or it just to show the compassion of God.

Faith101:

While Mohamed peace be upon him had his miracles just like all the other messengers, Muslims dont depend on them nor do they draw conclusions that because of this or that miracle, Islam is the truth.

This is what I understand too, so far.

Faith101:

The Quran is the ultimate mircale. One that is witnessed by every single person who has an open heart. It is not an image in the sky…but a spirtual light that continues to guide thousands of people back to the worship of God. No wonder its the fastest growing religion on earth.

i iknow that was off topic…but with all the miracle talk…i just wanted to say that.

Some Muslims explain to me that Quran is a miracle because of its linguistic beauty from the Prophet who was illiterate. Your explanation above would make it more a miracle, but as for the beauty thing …, I’m not convinced, honestly.

 

[Faith101]

Christianity don’t claim miracles to proof that it is true. For whatever happen, there is always a reason for them in God’s plan for every individual. Miracle, like healing from physical sickness sometimes can lead a person to realize the presence of God in his/her life. This sometimes can trigger profound personal conversion and increase of faith. Or it just to show the compassion of God

Allah leaves no one without first trying to guide them to the truth…in whatever way He wants. With that in mind, then i do agree with you about “miracles”. I woudlnt call them miracles in the sense of the word that people use today…but its kind of like there are times when you KNOW God is there and He is guiding you. Alhamdulilah.

Some Muslims explain to me that Quran is a miracle because of its linguistic beauty from the Prophet who was illiterate

That is only one part of it (and a very important part if you understand how an illiterate man who had very few run-ins with the people of the book can come up with words of this nature)…but I dont even think of that when i am listening to the Quran (i understand it more when i listen because my reading is toooooo slowwww…lol).

I know it means nothing to most of you here…but I swear the Quran can be from NO ONE but the Creator Himself. I do read it in English as well because there are some words which i am unfamiliar with…but there is absolutly no comparison with the Arabic…i never know what to say when it comes to the Quran…a miracle is too small of a word.

 

[George_Waters]

Islam holds all the prophets in high (if not equal as I have heard claimed) regard and places a lot of emphasis of the companions of Mohammed. I would assume that the disciples of Jesus would have some mention in the Quaran and Islamic tradition at least equal to the Biblical account and Christian tradition. I am interested in how Muslims view Peter, James, John, etc., etc… (On a side note, I have read how we Christians place too much emphasis on Paul, but find it interesting that the “companions” receive such high billing.)

I do agree with ReubenJ, it would be interesting to see the similarities between the companions and the disciples. Sure, we can discus any and all miracles attributed to each and all, but the main focus is the Islamic teachings concerning the disciples of Jesus.

Thanks all,

George

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Allah leaves no one without first trying to guide them to the truth…in whatever way He wants. With that in mind, then i do agree with you about “miracles”. I woudlnt call them miracles in the sense of the word that people use today…but its kind of like there are times when you KNOW God is there and He is guiding you. Alhamdulilah.

Though not everything, miracles do play an important part in Christianity. It’s useful to understand this in a correct perspective for you to have better insight about Christianity.

Modern Christian Theology defines miracle as a phenomenon in nature which transcends the capacity of natural causes to such a degree that it must be attributed to direct intervention of God. [John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible]

In OT examples include the plague in Egypt and the events of the Exodus.
In NT examples include the raising of the dead alive, the restoration of sight to the blinds, lepers can walk, the deliverance (freedom) of those possessed by demons, etc. by Jesus.

The fullness of this miracle, now better known as power, is communicated to the apostles (some are mentioned by George Waters) by the reception of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; they received it, they are clothed with it …

The apostles feel themselves full of the power of Jesus, which enable them to preach, to bear witness to Him and to heal. The power exhibits itself also to early Christians in the primitive church and occasionally until today to Christians who are gifted with this special gift (of the Holy Spirit).

It is therefore a part of the lasting presence of Jesus in His Church and enduring “sign” of the present operation of God. We don’t use miracle per se as proof that Christianity is true, because whether it is true or not must be accepted by faith (believing) without asking for proof. In fact, like Islam, we believe it’s wrong to demand fro a miracle (as proof of God).

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

That is only one part of it (and a very important part if you understand how an illiterate man who had very few run-ins with the people of the book can come up with words of this nature)…but I dont even think of that when i am listening to the Quran (i understand it more when i listen because my reading is toooooo slowwww…lol).

I know it means nothing to most of you here…but I swear the Quran can be from NO ONE but the Creator Himself. I do read it in English as well because there are some words which i am unfamiliar with…but there is absolutly no comparison with the Arabic…i never know what to say when it comes to the Quran…a miracle is too small of a word.

You seem to be a religious person (for want of better word, but it’s meant as compliment anyway). You are in good position to understand what a holy book can do to a person. I’d say good for you. Many Christians too have similar experience with the Bible. For them it can simply address any situation in their lives as if God Himself speaks to them as they meditate, reflect and bask in His Word. It is not just any book.

As for the fact that the Quran is a miracle because of its linguistic beauty and the fact that the Prophet is illiterate do subjected to question by non-Muslims, simply because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As for illiteracy, it’s not uncommon too. In my student days in one project study, I was brought to witness a native bard who would recite his animistic chant for three days and three nights non-stop except for an occasional break for meals. He was illiterate but everyone in the village agreed it was the most beautiful recitation among the tribe and it’s a wonder how he can remember all the verses. I’m not trying to degrade the Quran but only to say that the reason mentioned is questionable in our eyes. Yet, the miracle is surely for its believers.

… …

BTW am I digress too much bro George? I’ll try to take note.

 

[George_Waters]

Reuben, all you can ask of anyone is that they try, but you keep running with your discussion! Faith 101 seems to be the only Muslim trying to address my original question and she has stated her thoughts. Thank you Faith101, I do appreciate it! If people are interested in discussing miracles (which the disciples did perform), far be it from me to interfere! (Besides if enough posts are made maybe more Muslims will read this thread and I will get more Muslims to respond to my question! )

Peace

George

 

[Faith101]

As for the fact that the Quran is a miracle because of its linguistic beauty and the fact that the Prophet is illiterate do subjected to question by non-Muslims, simply because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Its not just about that. Its the fact that the Quran contains NO mistakes, no contradictions.

Do they not consider the Qur’an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy. (Quran 4:82)

Not only that, but what about the scientific accuracy of the Quran. They’ve actually hosted conferences with non-muslim scientists to discuss the topic of Quran and science. Some of the scientist actually converted to Islam, and if they did not, they said something along the lines of “this book can not be from any normal human being”

whyislam.org/877/Modern_Science/Quran_Science.asp

Say: “The (Qur’an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran 25:6)

This book actually lives in the hearts and minds of many Muslims around the world…to the extent that people have memorized the entire book (over 10 million people) and the rest of us who have memorized large portions of it. WHat other book can claim that?

But We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? (Quran 54:22)

Its a miracle to me, because it guides in a way that really nothign else could…

Verily in this (Qur’an) is a Message for people who would (truly) worship Allah. (Chapter #21, Verse #106)

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah. (Quran 2:2)

Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur’an, or are their hearts locked up by them? (Chapter #47, Verse #24)

I can not make your heart open to the Quran, that is for Allah alone, but I leave you with this
And to rehearse the Qur’an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: “I am only a Warner”. (Quran 27:92)

 

[Booklover]

George Waters:

After almost fifteen years of marriage my wife and I were blessed with the birth of our first child in June. We named him Nathaniel, as we truly believe he is a “gift from God”. Does Islam hold the disciples of Jesus in any special regard as it does the companions of Mohammed?

Peace

George

Congratulations George, to you and your wife!

Vickie

 

[jim1130]

George Waters:

After almost fifteen years of marriage my wife and I were blessed with the birth of our first child in June. We named him Nathaniel, as we truly believe he is a “gift from God”. Does Islam hold the disciples of Jesus in any special regard as it does the companions of Mohammed?

Peace

George

Mohammed and Mohammedanism
newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm

“According to the Sunni, the Prophets and Apostles were sinless and superior to the angels, and they had the power of performing miracles. Mohammedan angelology and demonology are almost wholly based on later Jewish and early Christian traditions. The angels are believed to be free from all sin; they neither eat nor drink; there is no distinction of sex among them. They are, as a rule, invisible, save to animals, although, at times, they appear in human form. The principal angels are: Gabriel, the guardian and communicator of God’s revelation to man; Michael, the guardian of men; Azrail, the angel of death, whose duty is to receive men’s souls when they die; and Israfil, the angel of the Resurrection.”