The doctrine of Rapture is one more false doctrine

[edwinG]

MaggieOH:

Hi Edwin,

I am pleased that you have made a comment and have stated where you stand. I can assure you that on this subject we are in total agreement.

There are some variances in what we understand, especially with regard to interpreting the 1000 years. I see that as a perfect number.

God Bless
MaggieOH

Hi Maggie,
I am easy on the meaning of the number. Tribulation will finish in my life time, Christ has given me work during the latter part of tribulation.
Oh Maggie, how I wish you would pray only to Him in Christ’s holy name. Your church allows this, please do it. I am begging you Maggie.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[MaggieOH]

edwinG:

Hi Maggie,
I am easy on the meaning of the number. Tribulation will finish in my life time, Christ has given me work during the latter part of tribulation.
Oh Maggie, how I wish you would pray only to Him in Christ’s holy name. Your church allows this, please do it. I am begging you Maggie.
Walk in love
edwinG

Edwin,

I pray every day to God.

However, I think that we have to remember that there are tribulations in all of our lives, both great and small. Life is not meant to be a bed of roses if we are followers of Christ.

Even though we are not in the mother of all End Times, I do think that there are signs of being in an end time. I do not know what age is coming to an end. Perhaps we are beginning to see an end to some of the rifts and schisms that exist between the more orthodox Christians. If that is the case then there is a great newer age to come.

However, I fear that due to the push for the culture of death in our society that we might be heading for even harder times than we are experiencing now.

As you are aware, the prophets interpreted the signs of their times as a warning for those who had turned away from God. In the days of Isaiah and Jeremiah and other minor prophets the people had fallen into apostasy and the kingdom of Israel was worshipping false gods. They had built altars in high places to sacrifice their children to Astarte. According to the mind of the prophets, this is the reason that the wrath of God (through the coming of a conqueror) was brought upon both Israel and Judah.

We live in a society where the sacrifice of children is blatantly made every day. That is right, the sacrifice of unborn children that is offered up to Satan through abortion.

We live in a time where there appears to be an increase in the number of natural disasters, for example the Tsunami that affected your area of the world. Well even though it is minor in comparison, within the space of one month Sydney has been hit by at least two serious storms that have in fact been mini tornados. During the last storm we really have been only lightly affected with hail stone damage to our carport roof. There are lots of far more serious natural disastors that have been spreading around the world.

We have wars, and we have rumours of wars, which is yet another reason why so many are tricked into believing the unsound teaching of the Rapture doctrine. Those who hear a preacher like the one that I described above (totally fictitious btw) have that fear drilled into them. Instead of concentrating upon God and doing the will of God, the people who have been tricked into harbouring those fears spend their time building shelters in the “hills” (oh my I forgot, I live in the Hills district ) so that there attention is taken away from doing the will of God in their daily lives.

EdwinG we do agree on some things, and I mean the challenge should not be to me to pray to God since I already do that, but it should be to you to say one Hail Mary, or at least find some literature on the Rosary. You will be pleasantly surprised to see how the focus is on Jesus, but through the eyes of a silent suffering mother.

MaggieOH

 

[Absalom]

Maggie,

No, it’s not available as text, but it only costs a dollar to order it.

 

[MaggieOH]

Absalom!:

Maggie,

No, it’s not available as text, but it only costs a dollar to order it.

Unfortunately when one lives in another country and who has no independent income, it is difficult to even afford $1.

MaggieOH

 

[MaggieOH]

Absalom!:

Maggie,

No, it’s not available as text, but it only costs a dollar to order it.

 

[cyprian]

MaggieOH:

PPC,

When attempting to understand what is written in apocalyptic literature you do need to have some idea of the genre of literature as well as the historical times.

Yes, the prophecy of Jesus, and of Daniel came to pass when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans. HOWEVER…

There is always an element of Scripture that relates in some way to the future. At this point in time we need to do remember that Jesus told us “You will not know the day or the hour when I will return”. There is nothing in the Scripture to substantiate any form of guess work as to when the End Times to end all End Times will be upon us.

:clapping: Amen, sister

Therefore, we do need to put Scripture into its historical perspective before getting caught up in what might or might not happen in the future. You ask several questions regarding the Antichrist, the Whore of Babylon and the mark of the Beast.

Well, I think that one can define the Antichrist in the following way:

"Children, these are the last days;
you were told that an Antichrist must come,
and now several antichrists have already appeared…
The man who denies that Jesus is the Christ -
he is the liar,
He is the Antichrist;
and he is denying the Father as well as the Son,
because no one who has the Father can deny the Son,
and to acknowledge the Son is to have the Father as well. " (1 John 2: 18-23)

The true Antichrist is Satan. He alone is the man of sin. However, there continue to be antichrists and last century we saw several of these antichrists make their appearance. They are the ones who cultivate the culture of death. It would not be hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint two very likely suspects as fitting the description given by St. John through the ages: Mohammed and Joseph Smith. In both cases they denied that Jesus is the Son of God. There are many others that do the same. The fact is, if you try very hard you will come up with dozens of names and examples of antichrist. I, for example would nominate those who support atheism as antichrist, because atheism is a system that denies both Father Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As such I would have to nominate Marx, Lenin, Stalin and all who have helped to spread Communism throughout the world, because the Communists attempted to wipe out Christianity and belief in God.

Now what about the Mark of the Beast? Well, again I think that you have to work of the historical perspective first. Yet on the Spiritual level I would have to guess that the mark of the Beast is best explained as the mark of sin. Anything else, especially the talk of barcodes or microchips being inserted is an attempt to take people away from worship of God.

That leaves one more point - the whore of Babylon. Again the starting point is the historical setting. Babylon is the codeword for Rome. It was understood by the early Christians as a reference to pagan Rome because the behaviour of the pagan Romans was a reminder of the behaviour of the Babylonians when the Jews were in exile in Babylon. At the same time the Christians were in exile because the Jews in Jerusalem (prior to the fall) had persecuted the Christians and they had to flee. Again this is just the starting point for understanding and at least putting the Book of Revelation into its historical setting. Then as you shift into the future there are certainly other parallels that can be drawn until you reach our own time.

The possibility that Jerusalem is the Whore of Babylon referred to by John is not beyond acceptance. The Jews had attempted to keep the Romans on side whilst attempting to continue to persecute the Christians, and then the Romans turned on the Jews in A.D. 70. The Whore of Babylon is one who sells herself out to others. Is this happening today? I think that there is ample world wide evidence to pin point a sell out to the culture of death.

Does that mean that we are in the mother of all End Times? No. Yet the possibility of being in an end time as we know it is very real. However, look again at what John wrote for his own time:

“Children, these are the last days”…

What did he mean? I think that he was indeed referring to events that were happening around him, including the sacking of Jerusalem, but perhaps something else as well.

The point is, we should follow what Jesus said to us… “Be prepared” and “Stay awake”.

MaggieOH

 

[Absalom]

MaggieOH:

Unfortunately when one lives in another country and who has no independent income, it is difficult to even afford $1.

MaggieOH

Very sorry to hear that. John has several lectures on various Catholic subjects, and they are all very good.

 

[edwinG]

MaggieOH:

Edwin,

I pray every day to God.

However, I think that we have to remember that there are tribulations in all of our lives, both great and small. Life is not meant to be a bed of roses if we are followers of Christ.

Even though we are not in the mother of all End Times, I do think that there are signs of being in an end time. I do not know what age is coming to an end. Perhaps we are beginning to see an end to some of the rifts and schisms that exist between the more orthodox Christians. If that is the case then there is a great newer age to come.

However, I fear that due to the push for the culture of death in our society that we might be heading for even harder times than we are experiencing now.

As you are aware, the prophets interpreted the signs of their times as a warning for those who had turned away from God. In the days of Isaiah and Jeremiah and other minor prophets the people had fallen into apostasy and the kingdom of Israel was worshipping false gods. They had built altars in high places to sacrifice their children to Astarte. According to the mind of the prophets, this is the reason that the wrath of God (through the coming of a conqueror) was brought upon both Israel and Judah.

We live in a society where the sacrifice of children is blatantly made every day. That is right, the sacrifice of unborn children that is offered up to Satan through abortion.

We live in a time where there appears to be an increase in the number of natural disasters, for example the Tsunami that affected your area of the world. Well even though it is minor in comparison, within the space of one month Sydney has been hit by at least two serious storms that have in fact been mini tornados. During the last storm we really have been only lightly affected with hail stone damage to our carport roof. There are lots of far more serious natural disastors that have been spreading around the world.

We have wars, and we have rumours of wars, which is yet another reason why so many are tricked into believing the unsound teaching of the Rapture doctrine. Those who hear a preacher like the one that I described above (totally fictitious btw) have that fear drilled into them. Instead of concentrating upon God and doing the will of God, the people who have been tricked into harbouring those fears spend their time building shelters in the “hills” (oh my I forgot, I live in the Hills district ) so that there attention is taken away from doing the will of God in their daily lives.

EdwinG we do agree on some things, and I mean the challenge should not be to me to pray to God since I already do that, but it should be to you to say one Hail Mary, or at least find some literature on the Rosary. You will be pleasantly surprised to see how the focus is on Jesus, but through the eyes of a silent suffering mother.

MaggieOH

Hi Maggie,
I asked God last night why people are brought to Christ through Mary, He answered me this morning, Faith. Because people believe this, it happens. That does not make it right. Faith is the key to receiving and God who is love wants to give the best to all of us and all is available to all, as He loves all, so even evil people can have and receive through faith. What is important is that you give up your life to Christ in Him alone. That you "dont move mountains to the sea, ( unless it is His will) but that you see and do only as He does in heaven. Now Christ says that what is not against Him is for Him, but in Mary you are neglecting the meat and potatoes aspect of the Holy Bible. This is the psychology of the mind. Too me, it seem evident you have great faith in Mary, you can’t even forsake her for one month even though it does not contradict your Roman Catholic church. The bible tells us not to put our trust in men. In Him alone. Hopefully it wont happen Maggie but in need in haste you may call on her and it will be too late. She can not help you, only He can. The door may close Maggie. Please for the last time. In Him and in Him alone. You can not be wrong in Him alone. I repeat, you can not be wrong in Him alone.I am pulling my hair out. Have you been seduced?
Walk in love
May Christ grow in your heart
edwinG

 

[MaggieOH]

edwinG:

Hi Maggie,
I asked God last night why people are brought to Christ through Mary, He answered me this morning, Faith. Because people believe this, it happens. That does not make it right. Faith is the key to receiving and God who is love wants to give the best to all of us and all is available to all, as He loves all, so even evil people can have and receive through faith. What is important is that you give up your life to Christ in Him alone. That you "dont move mountains to the sea, ( unless it is His will) but that you see and do only as He does in heaven. Now Christ says that what is not against Him is for Him, but in Mary you are neglecting the meat and potatoes aspect of the Holy Bible. This is the psychology of the mind. Too me, it seem evident you have great faith in Mary, you can’t even forsake her for one month even though it does not contradict your Roman Catholic church. The bible tells us not to put our trust in men. In Him alone. Hopefully it wont happen Maggie but in need in haste you may call on her and it will be too late. She can not help you, only He can. The door may close Maggie. Please for the last time. In Him and in Him alone. You can not be wrong in Him alone. I repeat, you can not be wrong in Him alone.I am pulling my hair out. Have you been seduced?
Walk in love
May Christ grow in your heart
edwinG

Edwin,

you are getting off topic here and you have not listened to what I have said. I praise God and pray to God every day. He is not neglected in my life.

I would like to take this up in a new thread so that I can keep to the subject of the thread.

MaggieOH

 

[awalt]

Maggie,

Thanks - but just for clarification, I was never conned into believing in the Rapture. I didn’t know all the specifics of Revelation, what the Church specifically taught etc. going into it, but I Knew going in it was fiction and that it would be an opportunity to learn.

I had strong faith going in, but threought Holy Spirit I learned and my faith grew more. Plus I was entertained

 

[MaggieOH]

awalt:

Maggie,

Thanks - but just for clarification, I was never conned into believing in the Rapture. I didn’t know all the specifics of Revelation, what the Church specifically taught etc. going into it, but I Knew going in it was fiction and that it would be an opportunity to learn.

I had strong faith going in, but threought Holy Spirit I learned and my faith grew more. Plus I was entertained

To keep this thread on topic, perhaps those who used belong to or previously belonged to churches were the Dispensationalist Rapture doctrine was taught might add some points on what they were actually taught. I am hoping that we can move on to examining the Scriptures that are used by those who preach the Rapture so that we have a ready response and will be in a continuing position of not being taken in by that kind of persuasive preaching. What I am looking for now, is a testimony from someone who used to believe in the Rapture doctrine and why that person believed.

MaggieOH

 

[Michael_C]

I’d like to say I find the end times / Rapture stories to be very entertaining. I’d also like to say that I don’t believe a word of it. All the different versions of what may happen are a good example of the problems with Sola Scriptura. The readings of one woman at the grindstone remaining and one taken away and one ma in the field and another taken away state that the non-believers will be taken away and the faithful will remain. So in case of rapture I expect to be right here.

 

[MaggieOH]

edwinG:

Hi Maggie,
I am easy on the meaning of the number. Tribulation will finish in my life time, Christ has given me work during the latter part of tribulation.
Oh Maggie, how I wish you would pray only to Him in Christ’s holy name. Your church allows this, please do it. I am begging you Maggie.
Walk in love
edwinG

Hi Edwin,

I have been thinking about your response. I do not know of one period in history where there has not been a tribulation of some kind. These tribulations will continue if the world does not repent and come back to the Lord.

The Tribulation as it is written in the Scripture has occurred when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans and razed the Temple to the ground. That does not mean that this is a one time event or that there is another future Tribulation that awaits all those who fail to do the will of God. I see history repeating itself.

We all have work to do because we are all commissioned to spread the Good News of the Gospel message. There are millions who have not had the opportunity to hear the Gospel message and nothing will occur until all the nations come to the Lord.

However, that does not take away from the fact that the scenario of the Left Behind series, plus that of the preachers who go out and preach End Times is nothing more than fiction.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

Michael C:

I’d like to say I find the end times / Rapture stories to be very entertaining. I’d also like to say that I don’t believe a word of it. All the different versions of what may happen are a good example of the problems with Sola Scriptura. The readings of one woman at the grindstone remaining and one taken away and one ma in the field and another taken away state that the non-believers will be taken away and the faithful will remain. So in case of rapture I expect to be right here.

Then why are so many taken in by these stories? Why do they accept the stories and end up being so fearful?

Maggie

 

[serendipity]

Thanks for the great poll Maggie! I am very relieved to see that so many people understand that he secret rapture theory is not rooted in scripture. I know the official Catholic stance on thsi, but where I live there are so few catholics and so many people who belong to a “make your own church” congregation that it seems the world at large thinks this somehow a fundamental Christian truth. I would not even call these people fundamental Christians, because I think that is an inaccurate name. Catholcism is the fundamantal Christianity, because it is the orginial Church of Christ.

 

[Jimmy_B]

**Sorry MaggieOH, **

I didn’t vote in this one.

1 Thessalonians 5

1 Concerning times and seasons, brothers, you have no need for anything to be written to you.

2 For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief at night.

3 When people are saying, “Peace and security,” then sudden disaster comes upon them, like labor pains upon a pregnant woman,and they will not escape.

4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness, for that day to overtake you like a thief.

QUOTE]

Here is one of my first treads-

End Times?

An entire lifetime can be spent to learn, understand and experience the fullness of your faith as a Catholic and you would still just scratch the surface.

The Bible, History, Church Fathers, prayers, Saints, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Apologetics, Canon Law, early documents and writings from the Church, past and present, Sacraments, Mysteries, Stations of the Cross, the most Holy Rosary. Adoration etc… etc… Other awesome written works like Imitation of Christ. etc…

I do not have much time to research or “dwell’ on the
“End Times.” We all have our own priorities on our journey home; “End Time” prophesies is way down on my list.

There isn’t enough time in the day to gain all the experience and knowledge that our Mother Church, The Most Holy Catholic Church, has to offer us…

We our fortunate to have the Church and all the richness associated with Her. Other religions, which have fair less, have more time to spend on “End Times”. Continue your journey and may God Bless You.

Yours in Christ,

Jimmy B****

 

[Jimmy_B]

I like to reflect on this.

Matthew 25:31-34

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,

32 and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

37 Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’

40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’

44 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’

45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’

46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[Veronica_Anne]

To clear this all up, may I suggest that y’all… if you can… watch the series on EWTN titled:

The Last Things: in Time and Eternity

Catholics tend to think of the last things as death and judgment, heaven and hell. However, in the new series, The Last Things: In Time and Eternity, Colin Donovan and Desmond Birch will be speaking about the area of theology called eschatology, which concerns not just the fate of individuals and the world, but the presence of the Kingdom of God in all its forms, both in the here-and-now and in eternity. Quoting Sacred Scripture and Tradition, as well as Church Magisterium, Donovan and Birch affirm the Church’s authority as guarantor of the Deposit of Faith from the beginnings of Christianity up to and including the events relating to the orientation of all of creation towards the Eschaton, or final goal of existence

The Last Things: in Time and Eternity

Episode 1: WHAT IS ESCHATOLOGY? PART 1

Episode 2: WHAT IS ESCHATOLOGY? PART 2

Episode 3: THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE KINGDOM: PART 1

Episode 4: THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE KINGDOM: PART 2

Episode 5: FAITH, HOPE AND CHARITY IN TIME & ETERNITY

Episode 6: THE WEDDING FEAST OF THE LAMB

Episode 7: CHRIST’S KNOWLEDGE OF THE END TIMES

Episode 8: HOW MANY COMINGS OF CHRIST?

Episode 9: THE RAPTURE AND THE MILLENNIUM

Episode 10: TRADITIONAL TEACHING ON END OF WORLD: PT 1

Episode 11: TRADITIONAL TEACHING ON END OF WORLD: PT 2

Episode 12: TRADITIONAL TEACHING ON END OF WORLD: PT 3

Episode 13: REL. OF PRIVATE REVELATION TO DEPOSIT OF FAITH

Colin B. Donovan, STL

Colin Donovan is Vice President for Theology at EWTN. A layman, he has the Licentiate in Sacred Theology, with a specialization in moral theology, from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas (Angelicum) in Rome, where he wrote on the Donation of the Spouses in Marriage. He earned the BTh from the Seminary of Christ the King in Mission, BC, Canada and the BA in Biological Science from Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. Prior to coming to EWTN in 1995, he taught Theology at Aquinas College in Nashville.

EWTN
5817 Old Leeds Rd.
Irondale, AL 35210
Phone: (205) 271-2900
**Desmond Birch ***
Author of **Trial, Tribulation and Triumph: Before, During, and After Anti-Christ. **

ewtn.com/series/Last_things/index.htm

Yes, we are in the “end times.” It’s the definition of “end times” that seems to be hanging people up.

It means “the time after Jesus rose” – as compared to the time before Jesus rose as the historical period before then.

There are MANY things that must happen before the end of the world as we know it.

Bottom line… Jesus will return at the end of the world… ONCE.

 

[Maccabees]

Michael C:

I’d like to say I find the end times / Rapture stories to be very entertaining. I’d also like to say that I don’t believe a word of it. All the different versions of what may happen are a good example of the problems with Sola Scriptura. The readings of one woman at the grindstone remaining and one taken away and one ma in the field and another taken away state that the non-believers will be taken away and the faithful will remain. So in case of rapture I expect to be right here.

Entertaining? Sure you haven’t seen the Left Behind movies?
To put them in the category of movie or entertainment is being very generous and to think those awful books sold millions.
No accounting for bad taste and false teaching. Just when they died off the Davinci Code picked up where they left off. Fiction has been in consistent in one thing heresey and its attack on the catholic church. From both angels the fundamentislist and the liberals.

 

[philipmarus]

My younger brother is a lapsed Catholic who goes to a private Baptist School (This is his Senior year). He told me he watched the Left Behind movie in one of his classes. His criticism of the movie was that the Antichrist was portrayed as a Eastern European or Slav. Could this be very very subtle form of Anti-Catholicism?