the doctrine of soul sleep

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benidict

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All Adventist and other proponents of the doctrine of soul sleep. lets debate it here. Adventist, feel free to attempt to convince me that this doctrine is biblical and not a fabrication by Mrs. White. Lets keep it narrowed down to this doctrine only. šŸ™‚
 
benidict said:
All Adventist and other proponents of the doctrine of soul sleep. lets debate it here. Adventist, feel free to attempt to convince me that this doctrine is biblical and not a fabrication by Mrs. White. Lets keep it narrowed down to this doctrine only. šŸ™‚
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Yes, we have been gravitating toward this for a couple days, havenā€™t we. šŸ˜‰
 
GaryTaylor said:
Yes, we have been gravitating toward this for a couple days, havenā€™t we. šŸ˜‰
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Why yes we have dear brother. I am getting tired of other peoples threads running the risk of being derailed, but I also wont let this doctrine go un answered. So hopefully the proponents of this doctrine will gravitate here insteadā€¦ We can only hopeā€¦šŸ˜‰ peace šŸ™‚
 
The jws believe this also. They believe that man is a soul and that when man expires - thatā€™s it. Nothing lives on, They interpret the soul to be the ā€œbreath of Godā€, therefore all living beings, be they man or animal, are souls.
Of course, the jws began as an offshoot of the adventist movement in the 19th century so I guess they just carried this interpretation with them.
 
catsrus said:
The jws believe this also. They believe that man is a soul and that when man expires - thatā€™s it. Nothing lives on, They interpret the soul to be the ā€œbreath of Godā€, therefore all living beings, be they man or animal, are souls.
Of course, the jws began as an offshoot of the adventist movement in the 19th century so I guess they just carried this interpretation with them.
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Exactly friend Catsrus. I dont even feel a need to appeal to the Church Fathers or tradition. There is so much in the bible alone to refute this doctrine, its really not necessary. But I think their views would be welcomed, in order to see if they supported this doctrine, or if it was a fabrication in the mid 1800s. Jehovahs are welcome to join us here too. also any bible christian who holds to this view, of any denomination. there may be more than we know. Peace šŸ™‚
 
We believe that souls go to heaven, hell or purgatory at death.
I know someone who is Assemblies of God and they believe the dead are waiting for the Last Judgment outside the gates of heaven and hell, and that
people who died before Christ went to the Bosom of Abraham, and will not participate in any judgment.

The Catholic Church is not ā€œBible Aloneā€ and therefore relies on early writings and Tradition.
Unless your point is that to argue with a Bible Alone person, you go at it with that concept, to level the playing field.

When I studied Adventists movements of the 19th Century, and there were many but they didnā€™t all survive, or they have morphed into other religions, I noticed that they believe the early church was pure until Constantine came along.
If you look up the JWā€™s, they claim no human ā€œfounderā€, as do most Protestant sects, and anyone who is the ā€˜headā€™ of the church since their founding is missing.

None of their publications have authors, and they edit them as they go along. Like Wikipedia without the sources listed. Their Bible has been edited to suit whatever they are believing at any given time.
 
The silence of our Adventist friends is deafeningā€¦Chirp Chirpā€¦Chirp Chirpā€¦šŸ˜‰
 
benidict said:
All Adventist and other proponents of the doctrine of soul sleep. lets debate it here. Adventist, feel free to attempt to convince me that this doctrine is biblical and not a fabrication by Mrs. White. Lets keep it narrowed down to this doctrine only. šŸ™‚
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What is itā€™s biblical support?
 
pablope said:
What is itā€™s biblical support?
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To my knowledge Pablo, taking the bible as a whole. there is not. Alot of passages need to be read into, or omitted to come up with this doctrine. Great question brother. I dont hold out much hope of an Adventist coming to this thread though. Or the other one for that matter. My Mormon friends would be happy to engage if this were a thread about their faith. They are more than eager to defend their position, and have gained much respect from me for doing so. Peace to you and yours. šŸ™‚
 
originally posted by** Katrina5**
If you look up the JWā€™s, they claim no human ā€œfounderā€, as do most Protestant sects, and anyone who is the ā€˜headā€™ of the church since their founding is missing.
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Thatā€™s their claim but it is not so. They were founded by Charles Taze Russell in 1879.
 
catsrus said:
Thatā€™s their claim but it is not so. They were founded by Charles Taze Russell in 1879.
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Thank you for the correction.
From what Iā€™ve read, I had the impression that if a leader went too far off the path, they sort of zapped him since they have a way of re-writing history, editing the Bible and so forth.

The one I spent time with said Jesus didnā€™t die on a cross. They nailed him to a large pole, and they have pictures of it. I thought maybe they were confused and meant he carried only the cross beam to Calvary, but she had all the Bible verses to prove it wasnā€™t a cross.

PS I thought it was Karl Keating who wrote that. It has been a few years, so Iā€™ll check my source again.šŸ™‚
 
benidict said:
To my knowledge Pablo, taking the bible as a whole. there is not. Alot of passages need to be read into, or omitted to come up with this doctrine. Great question brother. I dont hold out much hope of an Adventist coming to this thread though. Or the other one for that matter. My Mormon friends would be happy to engage if this were a thread about their faith. They are more than eager to defend their position, and have gained much respect from me for doing so. Peace to you and yours. šŸ™‚
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Hi, Benedictā€¦that is what I have seen from one of our friendsā€¦but have not seen him post here yet. I wonder why?šŸ¤·
 
Has been awhile since my SDA Bible study but from what I recall, body + breath = soul. Gen 2:7 I think. And 1Thess 4 describes the one resurrection of the righteous at the 2nd Coming.
 
benidict said:
All Adventist and other proponents of the doctrine of soul sleep. lets debate it here. Adventist, feel free to attempt to convince me that this doctrine is biblical and not a fabrication by Mrs. White. Lets keep it narrowed down to this doctrine only. šŸ™‚
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Hi benidict
Firstly let me say that I have been spending a lot of time on this forum learning about the Catholic faith and have enjoyed every minute. I have learned a lot about the Catholic faith and feel that my outlook on christianity as a whole has been enriched for it.My opinion that the Catholic church has many wonderful christian people in it has been confirmed. I dont mind admitting that some issues on this forum have challenged my long held beliefs.However there are still too many non negotiables in my beliefs to come over to the catholic church. Whilst I cannot try to convince you of my beliefs about the huma soul as prosletysing is not permitted on this forum I am happy to show you from scripture why I believe what I believe. You dont need to explain to me why you hold your belief as I used to agree with you when I attended an AOG church. I didnt bother reading what the bible has to say about the soul as the OSAS doctrine is heavily promoted there and lead to laziness on my part. I didnt think that I needed to read scripture as Im saved and thats all that mattered. Deep down inside I didnt believe in OSAS but I went along with it any way as it was an excuse for laziness but thats for another thread. Sorry to waffle on about myself like this just thought Id make myself known to you. Sorry I cant provide any more time to this at the moment my wife is in Brisbane doing a course for her work and Im playing Mr mum at the moment. Hope to get onto this tomorrow. God blessings to all my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
kja said:
Hi benidict
Firstly let me say that I have been spending a lot of time on this forum learning about the Catholic faith and have enjoyed every minute. I have learned a lot about the Catholic faith and feel that my outlook on christianity as a whole has been enriched for it.My opinion that the Catholic church has many wonderful christian people in it has been confirmed. I dont mind admitting that some issues on this forum have challenged my long held beliefs.However there are still too many non negotiables in my beliefs to come over to the catholic church. Whilst I cannot try to convince you of my beliefs about the huma soul as prosletysing is not permitted on this forum I am happy to show you from scripture why I believe what I believe. You dont need to explain to me why you hold your belief as I used to agree with you when I attended an AOG church. I didnt bother reading what the bible has to say about the soul as the OSAS doctrine is heavily promoted there and lead to laziness on my part. I didnt think that I needed to read scripture as Im saved and thats all that mattered. Deep down inside I didnt believe in OSAS but I went along with it any way as it was an excuse for laziness but thats for another thread. Sorry to waffle on about myself like this just thought Id make myself known to you. Sorry I cant provide any more time to this at the moment my wife is in Brisbane doing a course for her work and Im playing Mr mum at the moment. Hope to get onto this tomorrow. God blessings to all my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.
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Hi KJA. First let me say thank you for coming on here. It is good that we have someone from the Adventist perspective on this thread. I dont like discussing doctrines about a group without them coming to shed light on any misconceptions if any we might have. any insights you have will be welcome. I dont look to convince you either. Its just very interesting to see if in fact this doctrine is biblical, or a newer developement in Christianity at large. I get what your saying about OSAS though. I was raised with the same belief, and I dont believe that one holds any water biblically either. We would actually be in agreement about that issue. If you would like to start another thread about It. Id be happy to back you up. Peace. šŸ™‚
 
benidict said:
All Adventist and other proponents of the doctrine of soul sleep. lets debate it here. Adventist, feel free to attempt to convince me that this doctrine is biblical and not a fabrication by Mrs. White. Lets keep it narrowed down to this doctrine only. šŸ™‚
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It sounds wierd and I donā€™t know who came up with it. Jesus wants us to love each other and become better people not worry about our souls sleeping or some stuff like that. I mean if he said that on the sermon on the mount people would be like ā€œWhat?ā€
 
Until kja returns and can explain things to a far greater degree than I ever could, Iā€™ll just list another Scripture verse to go along with the others I gave earlier which Iā€™ve had SDAs present to me.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they are to die, but the dead no longer know anything. There is no further recompense for them, because all memory of them is lost.

Another point which has been made to me is if our loved ones are in heaven looking down upon us, wouldnā€™t seeing our pain and suffering saddened them, and yet they would be in heaven?
 
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