the doctrine of soul sleep

[kja]

Hi all
Firstly, having been on both sides of the fence with this issue it is easy for me to see that the bible appears to support both sides of the argument. I suppose it is up to the individual to read the bible for themself, weigh up the evidence and decide which argument holds the most weight.

Gen 2:7 tells us that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul.
when it says that God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils I believe it is not only talking about oxygen, but that it is also talking about that spark of life that only God can give to a lifeless body. Man can pump oxygen into a dead body till the cows come home but it takes more than oxygen to bring life to a body.
The word for soul is 5315 in strongs concordance which is nephesh. Incidently it is the same Hebrew waord used in chapter 1:30 to describe all the living creatures that creep on the face of the earth.
As 2:7 says “man became a living soul” I conclude from this that a soul is something that we are and not something that is inside us that can continue to exist apart from the body.
Yes the scriptures do use the term spirit, soul, and body separately however that doesnt mean that they are different entities that can exist apart from each other. Look at prov 5:11 for example, it says “when your flesh and your body are consumed” however in reality your flesh and your body are an integral part of your being. One cant survive without the other. Lam 3:4 says “he has aged my flesh and my skin” but in reality your flesh and your skin are one and the same thing. From this evidence I have concluded that our spirit soul and body are all integral parts of one being.
The word spirit means air or breath. eg 1kings 10:5 says (speaking of the Queen of Sheba) that “there was no spirit left in her” after seeing all of King Solomons wealth. This simply means that she was left breathless at the sight of his wealth. The apostle paul also uses the word spirit to refer to our mind or our thinking. eg Eph 4:23 says "the spirit of your mind, 1 Corinth 5:3-4 and Col 2:5 says he was absent in the body but present in the spirit. This simply means he was with them in his thoughts but not physically there.
I hope this has been a positive contribution to this thread. Yours in Christ Kevin.

 

[kja]

Until kja returns and can explain things to a far greater degree than I ever could, I’ll just list another Scripture verse to go along with the others I gave earlier which I’ve had SDAs present to me.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they are to die, but the dead no longer know anything. There is no further recompense for them, because all memory of them is lost.

Another point which has been made to me is if our loved ones are in heaven looking down upon us, wouldn’t seeing our pain and suffering saddened them, and yet they would be in heaven?

Hi all
ECC 9:10 also says there is no wisdom in the grave. This says to me that when you are dead you know nothing.
Ecc 3:19-20 says that man and beast are all the same, what happens to the sons also happens to the animals. All are from the dust and all return to the dust.
Ecc 6:6 says they all (the righteous and the wicked) go to the same place.
The conclusion I draw from this is that if we all go to the same place then it is saying we all go to the grave at death. Ill leave it at that for now as we are about to have dinner. hope this has helped.

 

[benidict]

Hi all
Firstly, having been on both sides of the fence with this issue it is easy for me to see that the bible appears to support both sides of the argument. I suppose it is up to the individual to read the bible for themself, weigh up the evidence and decide which argument holds the most weight.

Gen 2:7 tells us that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul.
when it says that God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils I believe it is not only talking about oxygen, but that it is also talking about that spark of life that only God can give to a lifeless body. Man can pump oxygen into a dead body till the cows come home but it takes more than oxygen to bring life to a body.
The word for soul is 5315 in strongs concordance which is nephesh. Incidently it is the same Hebrew waord used in chapter 1:30 to describe all the living creatures that creep on the face of the earth.
As 2:7 says “man became a living soul” I conclude from this that a soul is something that we are and not something that is inside us that can continue to exist apart from the body.
Yes the scriptures do use the term spirit, soul, and body separately however that doesnt mean that they are different entities that can exist apart from each other. Look at prov 5:11 for example, it says “when your flesh and your body are consumed” however in reality your flesh and your body are an integral part of your being. One cant survive without the other. Lam 3:4 says “he has aged my flesh and my skin” but in reality your flesh and your skin are one and the same thing. From this evidence I have concluded that our spirit soul and body are all integral parts of one being.
The word spirit means air or breath. eg 1kings 10:5 says (speaking of the Queen of Sheba) that “there was no spirit left in her” after seeing all of King Solomons wealth. This simply means that she was left breathless at the sight of his wealth. The apostle paul also uses the word spirit to refer to our mind or our thinking. eg Eph 4:23 says "the spirit of your mind, 1 Corinth 5:3-4 and Col 2:5 says he was absent in the body but present in the spirit. This simply means he was with them in his thoughts but not physically there.
I hope this has been a positive contribution to this thread. Yours in Christ Kevin.

Hi KJA. It is helpful. But maybe you can tell me. Has there ever been a theologian, bible teacher, doctor of the Church, between the time of the last apolstle dying, and the mid 1800s, who taught this doctrine? Or held to the belief of soul sleep. The first time I can find this doctrine refernced is in the writings of E.G. White, and not before. Thank you and Peace . BTW I can find many bible verses to give a bigger picture that would put to sleep the doctrine of soul sleep…pardon the pun. but hisrtorically, when was this ever taught. Thank you.

 

[benidict]

It sounds wierd and I don’t know who came up with it. Jesus wants us to love each other and become better people not worry about our souls sleeping or some stuff like that. I mean if he said that on the sermon on the mount people would be like “What?”

Hi SnakeMauler. I would agree that Love of God and Neighbor is the Highest law. However, the soul sleep doctrine calls into question more than just the state of our being after death. If it was just that, I would not care. But as we progress, we find it affecting the doctrine of the Trinity, and the deity of Christ. That is where it will get interesting. Peace

 

[LiftHimUp]

Just to throw a few scriptures in. I don’t know if these were posted. If they were please forgive me.

Psalms 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 13:6 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

 

[benidict]

Just to throw a few scriptures in. I don’t know if these were posted. If they were please forgive me.

Psalms 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 13:6 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Hi LiftHimUp. Thank you for joining us, and welcome to the forums. I will ask you the same thing. Can you point to one theologian, teacher, preacher, who held to the doctrine of soul sleep, between the death of the last apostle, and the 1800s? I contend this doctrine is a new doctrine started by E.G. White. I can also quote many many verses, that taken with the ones you provided, refute the doctrine of soul sleep biblically. So that being the case. please find me one Authoritative figure that held to, and taught this belief. Thanks in advance. Peace

 

[LiftHimUp]

Hi LiftHimUp. Thank you for joining us, and welcome to the forums. I will ask you the same thing. Can you point to one theologian, teacher, preacher, who held to the doctrine of soul sleep, between the death of the last apostle, and the 1800s? I contend this doctrine is a new doctrine started by E.G. White. I can also quote many many verses, that taken with the ones you provided, refute the doctrine of soul sleep biblically. So that being the case. please find me one Authoritative figure that held to, and taught this belief. Thanks in advance. Peace

At this moment I do not know one specifically, or it isn’t coming to mind. If it does, I will be sure to send you a message if you don’t mind. I think I remember some Protestant reformers holding this doctrine to be true. Also, I know many people who have never heard of SDA or Ellen G. White who hold soul sleep to be true. They base their claims on the bible.

Just out of curiosity, could you post a link to the material that you speak of? I would love to read for myself to gain a better understanding of your point of view.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Hi KJA. It is helpful. But maybe you can tell me. Has there ever been a theologian, bible teacher, doctor of the Church, between the time of the last apolstle dying, and the mid 1800s, who taught this doctrine? Or held to the belief of soul sleep. The first time I can find this doctrine refernced is in the writings of E.G. White, and not before. Thank you and Peace . BTW I can find many bible verses to give a bigger picture that would put to sleep the doctrine of soul sleep…pardon the pun. but hisrtorically, when was this ever taught. Thank you.

Actually, you would be amazed at how many people over the last several hundred years have considered the possiblility of soul sleep. Check out this article on the subject.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism

 

[Marsha_Adams]

It sounds wierd and I don’t know who came up with it. Jesus wants us to love each other and become better people not worry about our souls sleeping or some stuff like that. I mean if he said that on the sermon on the mount people would be like “What?”

Don’t be so sure SnakeMauler. Do you remember when St. Paul was dragged before the Sanhedrin and they were seriously planning on stoning him? How did he get out of it?

Acts 23:6But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

7And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

9And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees’ part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man:

It was this very doctrine that Paul called on to get his bacon out of the frying pan.

Now why did the Sadducees not believe in the resurrection? The Sadducees were the priests. They only considered the Penteteuch to be inspired. If it wasn’t in the five books of Moses it wasn’t Biblical. The Pharisees were laymen. They accepted the Penteteuch, and the books of the prophets to be inspired (hence Jesus’ references to the Law and the Prophets). Now they were not all of one mind as to WHICH books of the prophets were inspired, and the Jewish Canon was not defined until substantially later.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Hi all
ECC 9:10 also says there is no wisdom in the grave. This says to me that when you are dead you know nothing.
Ecc 3:19-20 says that man and beast are all the same, what happens to the sons also happens to the animals. All are from the dust and all return to the dust.
Ecc 6:6 says they all (the righteous and the wicked) go to the same place.
The conclusion I draw from this is that if we all go to the same place then it is saying we all go to the grave at death. Ill leave it at that for now as we are about to have dinner. hope this has helped.

Let us consider Eccl. 9 in context.

4 Anyone who is among the living has hope**—even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

As a Christian do you really believe that this life is meaningless? That your days are meaningless? Catholics do not believe this. Each day is given to us as an opportunity to glorify God, each day is the “acceptable day of salvation” there is nothing meaningless about it.

“They have no further reward”? The Bible says that each will be rewarded according to his works. So that makes two falsehoods in this chapter.

Verse 7 is basically saying eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die. This is not a Christian doctrine. So now we are up to three falsehoods in the space of 5 verses.

Why are you willing to accept the first half of verse 5 as being doctrinal when the following verses are clearly not the opinions of a believer?**

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Hi benidict, great topic

Although it may be difficult to narrow down a theologian or other who holds to a soul sleep doctrine. It could be noted outside of Christianity one may be able to find this soul sleep doctrine believed, such as the Jews.

I find it interesting that a “christian sect” would interpret its’ doctrines from the ancient Hebrew texts who had not received (yet) the revelations from God in the resurrection, and cite from the “wisdom” books who are dealing with the virtues of living out the letter of the law and fear (Love) of God.

The apspects of the soul being eternal is still hidden in the Old testament, it is Jesus who reveals what is hidden of the soul from Moses and all the prophetic psalms and prophets. One holding to an Old testament mindset interpretation and not what Jesus revealed negates God’s revelations and Love to redeem our humanity from its old testament interpretation fallen state. Those in Christ have recieved a new nature, a new creation.

I am trying to get a grasp on this “soul sleep” view coming from a “christian”, because Jesus revealed “ALL” the scriptures to his disciples concerning him from Moses, the prophets and “ALL” the scriptures (Luke 24:27) after Jesus descended to the dead to set the captives (souls in hades) free and resurrect with his body, soul and divinity intact.

I have to agree with you although, one is hard pressed to find a “Christian” believing in a “soul sleep” doctrine before the 19Th century.

Peace be with you

benidict;7564851]Hi LiftHimUp. Thank you for joining us, and welcome to the forums. I will ask you the same thing. Can you point to one theologian, teacher, preacher, who held to the doctrine of soul sleep, between the death of the last apostle, and the 1800s? I contend this doctrine is a new doctrine started by E.G. White. I can also quote many many verses, that taken with the ones you provided, refute the doctrine of soul sleep biblically. So that being the case. please find me one Authoritative figure that held to, and taught this belief. Thanks in advance. Peace

 

[panner]

According to this it is an old belief

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism

Christian views

Second to eighth centuries

The most well known case of mortalism in the early church is that recorded by Eusebius of Caesarea:

The Dissension of the Arabians. “About the same time others arose in Arabia, putting forward a doctrine foreign to the truth. They said that during the present time the human soul dies and perishes with the body, but that at the time of the resurrection they will be renewed together. And at that time also a synod of considerable size assembled, and Origen, being again invited there, spoke publicly on the question with such effect that the opinions of those who had formerly fallen were changed.” (Ecclesiastical History VI,37) The date of this synod in Arabia would be during the reign of Emperor Philip the Arab (244-249). Redepenning (1841) was of the opinion that Eusebius’ terminology here, “the human soul dies” was probably that of their critics rather than the Arabian Christians’ own expression and they were more likely simply “psychopannychists”, believers in “soul sleep”.

Some Syriac writers such as Aphrahat , Ephrem and Narsai believed in the dormition, or “sleep”, of the soul, in which "souls of the dead are largely inert, having lapsed into a state of sleep, in which they can only dream of their future reward or punishments."John of Damascus denounced the ideas of some Arab Christians as thnetopsychism (‘soul death’). Eustratios of Constantinople (after 582) denounced this and what he called hypnopsychism (‘soul sleep’). The issue was connected to the that of the Intercession of saints.

Ninth to fifteenth centuries

Mortalism evidently persisted since various Byzantine writers had to defend the doctrine of the veneration of saints against those who said the saints sleep. John the Deacon (11th C) attacked those who “dare to say that praying to the saints is like shouting in the ears of the deaf, as if they had drunk from the mythical waters of Oblivion.”

Pope John XXII inadvertently caused the Beatific vision controversy (1331–1334) by suggesting that the saved do not attain the Beatific Vision, or “see God” until Judgment Day, (In Italian: Visione beatifica differita, “deferred beatific vision”) which was a view possibly consistent with soul sleep. The Sacred College of Cardinals held a consistory on the problem in January 1334, and Pope John conceded to the more orthodox understanding. His successor, in that same year, Pope Benedict XII, declared it ex cathedra doctrine that the righteous do see Heaven immediately upon death.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Wikipedia? This does not prove any Christian believing in a soul sleep doctrine as professed today by SDA’s and JW’s. The information does not include all of the case such as those Christians such as Origen who himself fell into error and repented back to the Church.

The ones holding to such a soul sleep teaching are never held by Christians, or else were labeled heretics.

What happens to the soul remained a mystery long before Christ revealed himself in body and resurrection.

Your wikipedia does not reveal the difference between what is “believed” and what is commentary between the Popes and Saints.

All of these addressed heresy in one way or the other from their writings. To translate them from a letter to make the false assumption that the heresy being addressed was believed by the Popes or any faithful Christian is a far cry from the reality of truth.

Without debating this wikipedia opinionated view, it still does not reveal a Christian believing in a “soul sleep” doctrine before the 19th century. Outside of Jesus Christ revelations in Christianity, the soul still remains a mystery after death and draws on many different views as those holding to a “reincarnation” view to those not knowing or believing to believing the soul dies with the body.

As scripture states 1 Corinthians 15:44… “If there is a Natural body, there is also a spiritual one”, these Jesus raised both of them from the dead.

In Christianity “and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality”, "Death is swallowed up in victory. Where O death is your victory? Where O death, is your sting? 1Cor.15: 53-55

panner;7565689]According to this it is an old belief

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism

 

[panner]

You don’t have to be rude. It isn’t my wiki, it is the Internet wiki and they have made huge strides in cleaning it up. If your going to be rude you need to refrain from posting.

What you seemingly fail in your knowledge that the belief is an old one. Your no better than an anti Catholic

 

[CMatt25]

Hi all
Firstly, having been on both sides of the fence with this issue it is easy for me to see that the bible appears to support both sides of the argument. I suppose it is up to the individual to read the bible for themself, weigh up the evidence and decide which argument holds the most weight.

Gen 2:7 tells us that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul.
when it says that God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils I believe it is not only talking about oxygen, but that it is also talking about that spark of life that only God can give to a lifeless body. Man can pump oxygen into a dead body till the cows come home but it takes more than oxygen to bring life to a body.
The word for soul is 5315 in strongs concordance which is nephesh. Incidently it is the same Hebrew waord used in chapter 1:30 to describe all the living creatures that creep on the face of the earth.
As 2:7 says “man became a living soul” I conclude from this that a soul is something that we are and not something that is inside us that can continue to exist apart from the body.
Yes the scriptures do use the term spirit, soul, and body separately however that doesnt mean that they are different entities that can exist apart from each other. Look at prov 5:11 for example, it says “when your flesh and your body are consumed” however in reality your flesh and your body are an integral part of your being. One cant survive without the other. Lam 3:4 says “he has aged my flesh and my skin” but in reality your flesh and your skin are one and the same thing. From this evidence I have concluded that our spirit soul and body are all integral parts of one being.
The word spirit means air or breath. eg 1kings 10:5 says (speaking of the Queen of Sheba) that “there was no spirit left in her” after seeing all of King Solomons wealth. This simply means that she was left breathless at the sight of his wealth. The apostle paul also uses the word spirit to refer to our mind or our thinking. eg Eph 4:23 says "the spirit of your mind, 1 Corinth 5:3-4 and Col 2:5 says he was absent in the body but present in the spirit. This simply means he was with them in his thoughts but not physically there.
I hope this has been a positive contribution to this thread. Yours in Christ Kevin.

Yes Kevin I think you have made a positive contribution in helping to explain why someone might hold to soul sleep belief. As you alluded to it is up to each of us to read and form our faith. Faithful Catholics for instance are going to have faith in what the Catholic Church interprets Herself to be and faith in ECFs. Others might have faith in reform along the way. I suppose we will all know soon enough. In the meantime I guess it comes down to faith. Peace and God bless.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Thank you for clearing that up that its an old belief, I am sorry in my attempt to correct the vague wiki post that appeared to point to the Catholic faithful as holding to such unchristian belief’s (soul sleep).

I do agree with your clarification that it is an old belief. I am sorry if you took my disagreement for a tone of rudeness from my disagreement with your wiki post that “soul sleep” is never a Christian held belief.

I agree with you again, that Iam no better than an anti-catholic, but Iam working this out with fear and trembling. Thank you and God bless you.

Peace be with you

You don’t have to be rude. It isn’t my wiki, it is the Internet wiki and they have made huge strides in cleaning it up. If your going to be rude you need to refrain from posting.

What you seemingly fail in your knowledge that the belief is an old one. Your no better than an anti Catholic

 

[benidict]

According to this it is an old belief

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism

Hi Panner. Could we conclude then, from the ECFs that this is not just an ancient belief, but an ancient heresy? I just want to be sure I am reading them correctly. thank you Peace

 

[benidict]

Hi benidict, great topic

Although it may be difficult to narrow down a theologian or other who holds to a soul sleep doctrine. It could be noted outside of Christianity one may be able to find this soul sleep doctrine believed, such as the Jews.

I find it interesting that a “christian sect” would interpret its’ doctrines from the ancient Hebrew texts who had not received (yet) the revelations from God in the resurrection, and cite from the “wisdom” books who are dealing with the virtues of living out the letter of the law and fear (Love) of God.

The apspects of the soul being eternal is still hidden in the Old testament, it is Jesus who reveals what is hidden of the soul from Moses and all the prophetic psalms and prophets. One holding to an Old testament mindset interpretation and not what Jesus revealed negates God’s revelations and Love to redeem our humanity from its old testament interpretation fallen state. Those in Christ have recieved a new nature, a new creation.

I am trying to get a grasp on this “soul sleep” view coming from a “christian”, because Jesus revealed “ALL” the scriptures to his disciples concerning him from Moses, the prophets and “ALL” the scriptures (Luke 24:27) after Jesus descended to the dead to set the captives (souls in hades) free and resurrect with his body, soul and divinity intact.

I have to agree with you although, one is hard pressed to find a “Christian” believing in a “soul sleep” doctrine before the 19Th century.

Peace be with you

Hi Gabriel. thank you. It is my understanding however that the Jews who do hold to the belief of soul sleep, also do not believe in a literal after life or ressurection. I visited a synagouge in High school many years back, and the Rabbi explained that they believe the good that a person does, is what lives forever. that there is no life after death. this was a conservative Jewish synogouge. However, the Orthodox, do to my understanding believe in a concious interim state, and the ressurection, and eternal life. Please correct me if I have made any errors. It would be great also to get a Jewish perspective on this. Peace

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Your post here calls to mind the difference between the first century Pharisees and Sadducees. The former held to the oral hebrew traditions taught from the prophets a hope in the resurrection, where as the Sadducees only held to the letter of the law.

I find it interesting when Jesus is confronting the Sadducees who blatently profess their unbelief in the resurrection (see Luke; 20:27) And Jesus rebukes their unbelief by telling them from Matthew 22:29 " You are wrong (mislead), because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God". Wow talk about a put down to a lawyer (Sadducees) of the Law and interpreter of the scriptures.

So could it be that the Sadducees interpreted no resurrection only soul sleep from the scriptures and Jesus told them directly that "they do not know the scriptures and deny the power of God’? From here one cannot profess to be christian and hold to a Sadducee interpretation of the scriptures.

Yet, Jesus tells the Jewish Christians in Matthew 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven, because they interpreted scripture that the “soul returns to God” it does not sleep and maintained a hope in the resurrection.

That is why I find it difficult for a “christian” to profess a “soul sleep” because it deny’s the resurrection. As you correctly stated, those Jews who hold to a “soul sleep” do not have the hope nor the belief in the after life (resurrection).

Why did Jesus promise the “good theif” from the cross eternal life with him “today”?

Lk 23: 43
He (Jesus) replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Phil 1:21-23
For to me life is Christ, and death is gain. If I go on living in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. And I do not know which I shall choose. I am caught between the two. I long to depart this life and be with Christ, (for) that is far better.

Peace be with you also

Hi Gabriel. thank you. It is my understanding however that the Jews who do hold to the belief of soul sleep, also do not believe in a literal after life or ressurection. I visited a synagouge in High school many years back, and the Rabbi explained that they believe the good that a person does, is what lives forever. that there is no life after death. this was a conservative Jewish synogouge. However, the Orthodox, do to my understanding believe in a concious interim state, and the ressurection, and eternal life. Please correct me if I have made any errors. It would be great also to get a Jewish perspective on this. Peace

 

[panner]

Hi Panner. Could we conclude then, from the ECFs that this is not just an ancient belief, but an ancient heresy? I just want to be sure I am reading them correctly. thank you Peace

I’m not sure, that is a good question. When I first heard of the idea of SS it explained why we use the phrases we do about the dead, like Rest in Peace and such.