The Door to Real Jewish Life

[Gab123]

And there is no such thing as an Old Testament. The Jewish Scriptures is the first in a set of Jewish texts that begins with the Torah, then the Writings, followed by the Prophets, then the Gemara, the Mishnah, and then the Talmud. Christians just took some of our books and ignored the rest that didn’t fit in with their ideas, and then called our books “Old.”

The Old Testament makes up the old covenant between God and the people of Israel. It is the New Testament which fulfills the old covenant. The New Covenant, which is one with all people’s, not merely a racial and ethnic group of people. salvation is for all through Jesus Christ.

It is interesting to point out that the Septuagint was used by Hellenized Jews for centuries, but after the resurrection of Christ and the spreading of Christianity, the Jewish authorities who rejected Christ ended up rejecting the Septuagint, being that it was heavily quoted by Jesus; and used by the early Christians; after all it is the Book of Wisdom which has the astounding prophecy of the suffering messiah. As for e Talmud, that Book is not innspired by God, but rather a collection of writings by rabbis. Much of which was written to besmirch Christianity and Chris Himself to dissuade Jews from finding Christ.

the Nazis came from a Christian country, Germany, the birthplace of Protestantism. Sure some Christians died in concentration camps, but it was other Christians who killed them, Christians called Nazis who were out to kill Jews mostly…6 million of them.

That’s like saying Judaism was responsible for the massacres of hundreds of millions of people simply because Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution that ushered in Communism, all had Jewish roots. So the analogy is invalid. As for Hitler, he was no Christian, but rather a believer and practitioner of the occult.

As for the Torah’s discussion about priestly garments, etc., that’s not about the Temple.

The problem is that today most Jews don’t even know their own Torah. As for priests, the priesthood, priestly vestments and the temple, these were all commanded by God. One has to understand that the role of a priest is to offer sacrifice; and sacrifices were offered in the temple…

 

[Psalms62]

Ben Yosef,

There are many different divisions to Judaism. As listed, there are Reconstructionist, Reform movement, conservative and then the Orthodox. The Reconstruction has a tendency to think that it is by heritage that makes one Jewish. I just pointed out that can be argumentative among other groups within Judaism.

You’re writing that Catholics if not born a Catholic or is born Catholic would never accept a person who doesn’t believe in God. Atheist? Or they don’t refer to them as being Catholic? Then I cited a source.

You then accuse Catholics of stealing books that belong to the Jewish religion. Then you ask us as Catholics to have those books returned for Heritage reasons back to the Jewish religion? My reply back referred to the Aleppo Codex which is sought after for missing pages. People are spending a tremendous amount of money for those pages but those researchers don’t come from our religion.

You want the Catholics to understand Judaism but sometimes you’re Rough Around the Edges with the Catholics. You are wanting to give that perspective from a reconstructionist point of view and you are an Israeli. I am just saying there is such a huge difference between where you have lived,which there is a tremendous difference, from the people who live in the United States. Religion is like a first language in your vicinity.

I then apologize to you if I seemed offensive - and then you send a post to me that I don’t understand the whole entire message to your post?

 

[Kaninchen]

Christians tend to see Judaism as they see their own religions, something that one can choose and join, almost like a club or gym or class at a school.

There are different types of Christians, remember, and it’s not just a question of denomination, it’s also a question of disposition of mind.

Just two examples: for some Judaism is of interest as a context within which their religion arose, for others Judaism is an embarrassment, something to be eliminated.

 

[KJW5551]

That’s like saying Judaism was responsible for the massacres of hundreds of millions of people simply because Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution tha tushered in Communism, all had Jewish roots. So the analogy is invalid. As for Hitler, he was no Christian, but rather a believer and practitioner of the occult.

Indeed. Hitler, Himmler, all of those lunatics were not Christian. They despised Christianity.

 

[Evenshlomo]

Maybe I can help making clearer what being Jewish means by an example.
I have yet to meet an “atheist Jew”. Such a thing simply is not possible. A Jew is connected to G’d. He might not like it, cover it up, sweep his Jewishness under the rug, and it still will be there. A Jew is a Jew.
I know one Yid who left the eretz over twenty years ago, married a non:Jewish woman, hates the Rabbis, doesn’t keep anything and says that the Torah is a novel, and of course he doesn’t keep Shabbat. So and then one day the high holidays were approaching, and I was asking him what his plans were for Rosh Hashanah, to which he replied: “I’m working.” and so when I asked him: “And Yom Kippur? You’re also working on Yom Kippur?” to which he replied:

“Are you out of your mind? Of course not! On Yom Kippur, I stay at home and fast. I don’t go to the synagogue of course, but, I stay at home and fast…”

 

[Evenshlomo]

Once I knew a Russian guy, a Scientist, totally “atheist”, grew up completely secular, denies everything simply and believes only in scientifically proven facts, as he used to say. We got into an argument and at some point I asked him, how he thought G’d would have lead us out of Egypt, or if he thought that that had also been a story only. To which he replied: “What do we know!” and then, yelling at me: “How am I supposed to know how he lead us out of Egypt!”

My point is you can catch every Jew at some point and nail them to their Jewishness, by grabbing them at their inner core which is our very heritage.

 

[Evenshlomo]

Real Jewish life cannot be reduced to religion or theology.

forgot to say, my replies were made in support of this argument made here

 

[Psalms62]

Real Jewish life cannot be reduced to religion or theology.

Not my opinion. The original post is down below:
ben yosef":

I am trying to help people see that the door to real Jewish life, as the thread is speaking of, is more than about religion, more than “choosing Jesus” as messiah. Real Jewish life cannot be reduced to religion or theology.

 

[Psalms62]

forgot to say, my replies were made in support of this argument made here

It encompasses the religion, philosophy, and culture of the Jewish people. Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Children of Israel. Judaism encompasses a wide corpus of texts, practices, theological positions, and forms of organization.

---

Again, according to other sources:

"Orthodox, or conservative, Judaism, from the standpoint of which this article is written, regards the Jewish religion as a revealed religion, the teachings of which were made known by God to man by supernatural means. These supernatural, divine communications of religious truths and doctrines took place, however, only at certain times in the past; and they were made only to chosen people (the Prophets, among whom Moses was preeminent). With the cessation of prophecy they were discontinued altogether. Through these supernatural manifestations God revealed to human beings all the religious truths essential to their guidance through life and to their spiritual welfare. These religious truths it is not necessary for man to supplement with human doctrines; nor may any of them be annulled. They are mainly contained in the Holy Scriptures, written by men who were inspired by God; and in part they are among the teachings and manifestations revealed by God to Moses which were not written down, but were preserved to the nation by oral tradition."

 

[Psalms62]

continuing:

This is the opinion of the Orthodox and Conservative movement of Judaism. Reconstructionist have another opinion on this matter of the “Oral Tradition”. Ben Yosef comments on the board/thread do not express “all” opinions on what Judaism believes but gave only a reconstructionist point of view.

In my opinion, on the board, I had expressed that this could be argumentative for many reasons and the returned comment to my post, "My reply was not intended toward Jews in general, as if to divide Jews on their own person definitions of what they themselves view as Judaism."

So was giving some room for others to comment on his post from another Jewish perspective not welcomed? I thought, that if we’re going to be giving "the real perspective of Judaism - we might as well get introduce to the other divisions into those opinions. Would this not be in agreement with the board - members?

To introduce the arguments, we are discussing the divinity of the sacred text handed down to the prophets (which they do not believe) and also, the divinity of prophecy (which get into the area of theology) of the Christian religion. My question back to Ben Yosef would be if he realized the crowd on the board and the area of discussion from his movement of Judaism perspective on this subject?

Sighting another source on what reconstructionist believe: The Past Has a Vote, Not a Veto

 

[Psalms62]

“Reconstructionism does not view Judaism as a total and immutable revelation from God to Moses at Sinai that is essentially unchanged through all generations. We see Judaism as the ever-evolving product of history, an ongoing attempt to forge a society based on holy values. Conservative Judaism has made significant contributions to Jewish life in the realms of education and scholarship. While we support this effort, Reconstructionism diverges from Conservative Judaism in terms of priorities. We believe that the basic tenets of Judaism need to be reexamined and restated for our age. We see this as a more pressing priority than the particulars of Jewish law. Jews need to know why they should be Jewish at all before they worry about how to change details of observance. Concerning observance, we differ specifically on the issue of how far one may go in amending Jewish law and who has the right to be involved in that process. We believe that rabbis and scholars should work together with committed lay members of the Jewish community formulating guides to Jewish practice for our time. These guides should reflect a desire to protect and preserve tradition as well as an openness to creativity and evolution as we face a new age in Jewish society. Reform Judaism emphasizes the centrality of the prophetic tradition and insists that standards of ethical monotheism be applied universally. We Reconstructionists affirm this emphasis and share in its commitment. Reconstructionism differs from Reform Judaism, however, concerning how much of the tradition needs to be preserved. Reconstructionists encourage Jews to give honest consideration to a wider range of traditional practice. We believe that Judaism is more than ethical monotheism. Judaism is more than ethical monotheism. Judaism is the historic, unique and most satisfying way by which the Jewish people can find ongoing meaning in the great moments in our history and the special moments in our individual lives. Through Judaism, we dedicate ourselves to universal spiritual values that transcend any one individual, society or nation.”

 

[Psalms62]

The major emphasis deals with residing in Jerusalem and the law of return and the building up 9.“We want to participate in the upbuilding of Eretz Yisrael as a means to the renaissance of the Jewish spirit.”

Much of this particular area is debatable in regards with Orthodox along with the more Orthodox communities on what ‘building up’ means ? Again, and in regards to the Messianic age - and Messiah, the basis tenets are suppose to be in place and not changeable:

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic AgeThe Messianic Idea in Judaism​

 

[Psalms62]

forgot to say, my replies were made in support of this argument made here

There is great good in some of the values but on a spiritual and religious basis, no.

 

[Psalms62]

Once I knew a Russian guy, a Scientist, totally “atheist”, grew up completely secular, denies everything simply and believes only in scientifically proven facts, as he used to say. We got into an argument and at some point I asked him, how he thought G’d would have lead us out of Egypt, or if he thought that that had also been a story only. To which he replied: “What do we know!” and then, yelling at me: “How am I supposed to know how he lead us out of Egypt!”

My point is you can catch every Jew at some point and nail them to their Jewishness, by grabbing them at their inner core which is our very heritage.

Not an approach that I would take. I had a paper that needed to be handed in for extra credit/ points in school. So I wrote on the Holocaust – out of 3 points per subject and there needed to be 3, which I didn’t finish, I totaled 6 points on one paper.

What I found out through the interview process of the Holocaust survivors - did the survivors believe that God delivered them out of those camps? I was taken back on each interview I listened to! You know, people who view these atrocities drawn toward the “wanting to understand” how the “strength” was given for the Jewish people to survive - along with other groups that were apart of the concentration camps. My favorite movie on the Holocaust was defiance plus my favorite actors were Tuvia (Daniel Craig), Zus (Liev Schreiber) and Shimon Haaretz (Allan Corduner). Out of the movie, which was amazing, I understood how these people developed their own town - and grouped their lives together.

Again we can ask the same question? Did God deliver the Jewish people from the concentration camps and were the Nazis destroyed by it? Both questions are “Yes”!

It was the strength of God that was able to get them through it! Psalm 62:6 Only for God wait thou in stillness, my soul; for from Him cometh my hope.
ז אַךְ-הוּא צוּרִי, וִישׁוּעָתִי; מִשְׂגַּבִּי, לֹא אֶמּוֹט. 7 He only is my rock and my salvation, my high tower, I shall not be moved.
ח עַל-אֱלֹהִים, יִשְׁעִי וּכְבוֹדִי; צוּר-עֻזִּי מַחְסִי, בֵּאלֹהִים. 8 Upon God resteth my salvation and my glory; the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
ט בִּטְחוּ בוֹ בְכָל-עֵת, עָם-- שִׁפְכוּ-לְפָנָיו לְבַבְכֶם;
אֱלֹהִים מַחֲסֶה-לָּנוּ סֶלָה. 9 Trust in Him at all times, ye people; pour out your heart before Him; {N}
God is a refuge for us. Selah

 

[Psalms62]

. Such a thing simply is not possible. A Jew is connected to G’d. He might not like it, cover it up, sweep his Jewishness under the rug, and it still will be there

Agree! God will not let you hide it! That sense of identity is from within - and it is connected!

 

[Moses613]

The typical contemporary Orthodox perspective is not that of @BenYosef. Rabbi Saadia Gaon is often quoted here (Emunoth V’Deioth 3:7). In speaking about why the Torah can never be annulled, he writes: “Our nation, the children of Israel, is only a nation by virtue of its Torah. And since the Creator stated that this nation would exist as long as the heavens and the earth, it is necessarily true that its Torah shall also exist as long as the heavens and the earth.”
There isn’t really one Jewish culture, there are several, extremely different Jewish cultures. The cultures of Iraq, Yemenite or Persian Jews have little to do with those of Polish or Italian Jews. Food, language, and social norms are extremely different. Only the Torah binds them.

 

[Rabbi]

This video is utter nonesense. He’s not a Jew, he’s lost his share of Olam HaBa. Everyone whose stepped away from the Brit of Avraham, Yitzach and Yaakov has lost HaShem’s blessing. Take the Karaites, do you know a guy next door whose a Karaite? Come on, they don’t exist anymore in any real form. The Sadducees, another glorious group, where are they? No where, why, because they lost the Covenant when they rejected our Oral Torah. @Moses613 what a great answer!

 

[Psalms62]

Explain “What” Olam HaBa is and how this person lost his share and how would anyone know this? According to? There is a great group within the Jewish movement itself that helps to guide members and to support them within the confines of their own religion. I remember a friend of mine that I knew who lost sight of his faith. Members of the Synagogue came to his job on a everyday basis to speak with him and to help support his family. Eventually, this man who had absolutely no connection started to reach out. You “never” know how a circumstance can change when others take the time to heal others.

The oral & written Torah is handed down from one generation to the next. . We (as Christians) or I should say “I” as a Christian haven’t lost my share. The Judeo-Christian Bible reveals its oral traditional roots and we base that information toward the Messiahship. And, these transmissions were handed down from the apostles - again, point toward the verse in John 17: 6 “I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

As long as the obedience to God’s “Word” was being followed by the apostles then no one was lost - or - scattered. Again, the verses states, " 31Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”…

 

[Psalms62]

whose a Karaite

Historians have argued over whether Karaism has a direct connection to anti-Rabbinic sects and views, such as those of the Sadducees, dating back to the end of the Second Temple period (70 CE), or whether Karaism represents a novel emergence of similar views. Karaites have always maintained that, while there are some similarities to the Sadducees, due to the rejection of Rabbinical authority and the Oral Law, there are major differences. The ancestors of the Karaites were a group called Benei Ṣedeq during the Second Temple period.[4]
What is Karaite Judaism

 

[Psalms62]

Continuing the discussion from Proof of our Oral Torah!:

To me, Jesus was just a good teacher, like Hare Krishna or Muhammad, Buddha, Confucius, etc. Was he HaMashiach (the Messiah)? I’d think no. Why? Because there’s no sign of world peace.

A simple question? Or statement on the Zohar: Its objects were:

1. to combat the influence of the Zohar and subsequent developments in modern Kabbalah, which were then pervasive in Yemenite Jewish life, and which the Dor Daim believed to be irrational and idolatrous;
2. to restore what they believed to be a rational approach to Judaism rooted in authentic sources, including the Talmud, Saadia Gaon and especially Maimonides;
3. to safeguard the older ( Baladi ) tradition of Yemenite Jewish observance, which they believed to be based on this approach.

Today there is no official Dor Dai movement, but the term is used for individuals and synagogues within the Yemenite community (mostly in Israel) who share the original movement’s perspectives. There are also some groups, both within and outside the Yemenite community, holding a somewhat similar stance, who describe themselves as talmide ha-Rambam (disciples of Maimonides) rather than Dor Daim .

Dor Daim