The duty not to vote

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However, many nations have regrettably left the decision between which was the lesser of two evils (as the choice all too often is) to the people, …

What do you think?
Regarding our civic duties, Cicero wrote “Primum, minima de malis” (First, least of evils) translated into our modern nuances as “Choose the least of evils.” This has been falsely morphed into the “lesser of two evils,” from which our two-party system apparently has its roots. But just like one can’t justify choosing Hitler over Stalin because Hitler killed fewer people, people can’t automatically think voting Democrat or Republican are the only choices available. According to Cicero’s principles, third party or not voting are legitimate choices.

Cicero’s De Officiis greatly influenced Jerome, Augustine, Aquinas, and other early fathers of the Church.
 
Every person who doesn’t vote is actually giving his vote to Obama.
 
So would you say that because I’m not drinking Coke, Pepsi will become the number one drink?
Where did that come from? More than likely the winner will win by a very close vote. If you don’t vote for Romney, it’s one less vote that he doesn’t have, and makes Obama’s total one more than it would have been if you’d voted for Romney.
 
Sorry, but I don’t know how you cannot know what a candidate is supporting especially Obama. We’ve had four years of his measures and more to come. Surely, you must know by now if you are in support of your money going for abortions, contraception, euthanasia, PBS, cuts in the military, bailouts, the increase and promotion of food stamp participation, increase in people receiving disability under SS, poor border control, blockage on drilling and becoming energy indepentent, and the HHS mandate.

If you are not getting through the news stations you are watching, switch. Also start reading and learn.
youtube.com/watch?v=lNDsyKnQIes&feature=related
Do you know where Romney stands on issues? This week?On abortion? Do you honestly trust him? And Mostly I am referring to the ,local elections where I know nothing about the candidates. I thought my reference to the Chicago area was my point. .
 
The people want to work but the present government has put so many restrictions on businesses that there are no jobs. Government does not create jobs. It does create bureaucracy and bureaucrats.

The HHS mandate gives you an example of how religious freedom will be changed to freedom to worship. There is a big difference. Russia, under communisim, has freedom to worship but does not have religious freedom.
I think that the problem is more structural in the world economy. Today’s engineering graduate, or accounting graduate is competing directly with someone in India, China or Pakistan for a job. This is the result a combination of greed (increasing profit margins), competitiveness (if my competitor does it, then I need to), and the fact that technology makes it so easy.

Major US companies now do all of their bookkeeping in India, for example.
 
So essentially you are an anarchist, and you base that on your Christian faith?

Humans are social animals; they naturally form into communities. Communities need leaders, and as a member of the community you are subject to its laws. Maybe you want to be a slave to your nation, and you want to be forced to obey. You don’t want to choose a man you think is best for the job. You expect it to be chosen by someone else?

I think it is a bit hypocritical to use the resources of your country and to gain the benefits of being part of a society, but to turn around and not accept any law of the society. You will use the money printed by the govt and then turn around and speak about how evil it is that you are subject to its laws? If you want to object with integrity, you should go out into the middle of the forest and live off the land. Hunt your own food and support yourself. Experience what it is to not be a part of society, and then proclaim the evils of society oppressing you with laws. Then you won’t have to have anyone above you but God.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=lNDsyKnQIes&feature=related
Do you know where Romney stands on issues? This week?On abortion? Do you honestly trust him? And Mostly I am referring to the ,local elections where I know nothing about the candidates. I thought my reference to the Chicago area was my point. .
I know you weren’t addressing me, but I trust Mitt Romney’s ability to lead much more than I ever could Barack H. Obama’s, because he has none. He is like a little kid, dressed up in grown-up clothing and pretending to be able to do the job. Plus he has a background that includes a lot of exposure to Marxism (Communism) as well as anti-colonialism (a flavor of Communism). His ideal would be to reduce America to its rightful place in the world - which would be, nothing much at all - and redistribute our wealth to other nations. Government control of the individual and state ownership of assets are just fine and dandy with him, as you can easily see by looking at Obamacare, especially, but also the automotive company bail-outs and takeover, as well as the government taking control of student loans. His ideology is 180 degrees from that of a normal, raised in America, American. More people recognize it every day.

Mitt Romney has experience as a leader and a successful executive. He’s a fairly moderate Republican, but I believe that his heart and mind are in line with America and that he can get us back on track. He’s almost totally pro-life, and he can be swayed further as we go along. I’d call him one of the best candidates in 20 years.
 
Now, in this day and age, practically everyone I will ever meet here has the nominal power to influence the government of his or her nation by marking a piece of paper in a booth, i.e. voting. However, many nations have regrettably left the decision between which was the lesser of two evils (as the choice all too often is) to the people, who are “ever easy to deceive and to lead into every excess”, to quote Pius VI. The various sections Church, of course, have responded by pointing out the magnitude of the evil of the above-mentioned greater evil (in America’s case, that would be Obama). They often conclude by saying that we should vote for the lesser evil, because the other choice is the greater evil.

Now, I’m not here to question these arguments (in fact, I agree with most of them), but the conclusion. Here are some reasons why I think that, as a matter of principle, Christians and Catholics in particular have a duty to not vote:
  1. By participating in an election, what do you affirm? Let’s say a community elects a decent member of government. Said member of government is thereby imbued with appropriate authority, and therefore, we are morally obliged to obey him, as St. Paul taught. However, let’s assume his opponent, who is an amalgation of every hellish sin one can imagine, won instead. There’s no way a person who pushes fanatically for the mass, industrialised murder of infants, elderly and sickly, yet refuses to deliver due justice to even the most heinous criminals, publicly sponsors every form of perversion imaginable, et cetera, can be given divine authority to abuse to compel his fellow men into the same sinful life. But if an election can imbue this candidate with authority, why can it not do the same to another? After all, the only deciding factor is who got more votes.
  2. Man were made in God’s own image, free to do as they pleased. The only entity to which they are subordinate was God. He alone could compel their wills. But the very idea of ‘the will of the people’ imbuing authority, a majority imposing their will on everyone else via a claim to divinely-issued authority, is evil and blasphemous. I bow to God alone, not to a mass of common people who may simply be one man more than my mass of common people. But isn’t that what democracy does? I therefore refuse to participate in such a system, which usurps God’s role as the source of all authority through his Church (I agree with Joseph de Maistre’s On The Pope here), by not voting.
What do you think?
I think you should vote. I think one person can make a difference.

politicalresponsibility.com/votingstatement.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
The priest celebrating this past Sunday’s Mass said that many men had died for the right for you to vote, and to not do so would be a sin. He went on to say that he would never tell anyone who to vote for, but that we needed to vote with a well formed conscience, understanding where the Church stands on the various issues. He then added that it is time for us Christians to take our rightful place in American society and that included exercising our right to influence public policy. I thought that all of that was spot on.
Gee…Our priest’s homily was about…

Teasing. I kid you not. Teasing.

:rolleyes:
 
What if he would have voted for obama but chose not to vote?
Yes, that would give Romney the advantage of that vote, but since O’Bama is the incumbant, and traditionally the favorite, the odds of winning are in his favor.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=lNDsyKnQIes&feature=related
Do you know where Romney stands on issues? This week?On abortion? Do you honestly trust him? And Mostly I am referring to the ,local elections where I know nothing about the candidates. I thought my reference to the Chicago area was my point. .
I trust Romney. I’ve never trusted Obama…never. He is a communist.

If Romney can keep my tax money from paying for Planned Parenthood, abortions, contraception, Viagra etc. so be it. One man is not going to turn this back. It will take all of us and it should start with the churches who left these issues to personal choice when they previously considered them sins and abortion as murder.
 
Make no mistake about this: I will vote for Romney. It seems people think I will vote for Obama. But I will also state one more thing: during the nominations Romney was my last choice from beginning to end, even behind Ron Paul. Romney will get my vote but I defintely do not trust that man.
 
concern yourself with gods laws and not , voting for whoever isn’t gods will, stopping the killing of babies and other things like abortion issues, but voting for romney just because he isn’t obama is like saying vote for hitler because he can solve our economic crisis…which they did…and look what happened. it’s a poor example but a danger in voting for a person to solve one isnd the best advice is not to vote…jesus said pay your taxes and be a good member of society, but remember that even jesus spoke of the hypocrisy of polotics
 
concern yourself with gods laws and not , voting for whoever isn’t gods will, stopping the killing of babies and other things like abortion issues, but voting for romney just because he isn’t obama is like saying vote for hitler because he can solve our economic crisis…which they did…and look what happened. it’s a poor example but a danger in voting for a person to solve one isnd the best advice is not to vote…jesus said pay your taxes and be a good member of society, but remember that even jesus spoke of the hypocrisy of polotics
Godwin’s Law just got evoked.

Now you equate Mitt Romney to Hitler.

:rolleyes:

Keep trying, you get more amusing by the minute. 😃
 
Godwin’s Law just got evoked.

Now you equate Mitt Romney to Hitler.

:rolleyes:

Keep trying, you get more amusing by the minute. 😃
i knew you would be right around the corner, but it was a poor example, but the same situation, a nation in economic decline and voting for the person who can fix the problems.

sigh. i just want to make it clear i dont want voting for either side, in the end its lose lose, an i’m telling you, its a wolf in sheeps clothing, he wont do anything he said to get catholics to vote for him, lets see his day 1…
 
i knew you would be right around the corner, but it was a poor example, but the same situation, a nation in economic decline and voting for the person who can fix the problems.

sigh. i just want to make it clear i dont want voting for either side, in the end its lose lose, an i’m telling you, its a wolf in sheeps clothing, he wont do anything he said to get catholics to vote for him, lets see his day 1…
The other candidate, the current President, is a demon in wolf’s clothing. I would vote for Mitt Romney all day, every day, instead of Barack H. Obama.

I think your scenario above applied to the 2008 election and not this one. People who vote for Romney are not looking for a savior, just a good leader and someone who can guide US to help ourselves out of the mess we have gotten ourselves into. Romney has promised to stop Obamacare and that alone will pick up the productivity of the country.

I believe that he is a good, honest, man, whose values line up with most American’s values. He’s got experiences as a businessman and as a successful state Governor. He’s got nothing to hide, there are no skeletons whatsoever in his closet. He got my vote and so did Paul Ryan (I know we don’t vote for the VP). I was happy when Mitt Romney chose Paul Ryan for his VP - it was, again, a bold choice and showed Romney’s intensity.
 
i knew you would be right around the corner, but it was a poor example, but the same situation, a nation in economic decline and voting for the person who can fix the problems.

sigh. i just want to make it clear i dont want voting for either side, in the end its lose lose, an i’m telling you, its a wolf in sheeps clothing, he wont do anything he said to get catholics to vote for him, lets see his day 1…
P.S. - you’re in Canada, so you have no horse in this race.

:rolleyes:
 
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