The Early Christians?

[The_Catholic]

I may be too ignorant, but I believe it is untrue to say that until Protestantism, there was only the Catholic Church. Were there not many different sects of christian churches who were apart from the Catholic Church in every century? And that they all believed they were following Christ’s teachings?

If so then what claims do they have? Do they have apostlic succesion, or writtings passed on from earlier christians that believed their teachings?

I know the Catholic Church has a list that dates back to St. Peter and the first Bishops. But non-catholics do not believe this. They say that even though the early church fathers sound “catholic” they still differed on many issues and even believed doctrines the Church doesn’t now teach.

Any coments on this?

 

[rr1213]

Yes, there were various sects that broke away at various times. The first great schism, however, was finalized in 1054 (I believe) when the Orthodox and Catholic Churches split from each other. Depends on whether you are Catholic or Orthodox as to who was the “spliter” and the “splitee”. The next major schism took place in the 1500s when the various Protestant Churches broke from the Catholic Church. Catholics say that the Protestants are heretical and schismatic; Protestants that the Catholic Church needed/needs to be reformed of various abuses (hence, the “Reformation”).

 

[DesertBrother]

I may be too ignorant, but I believe it is untrue to say that until Protestantism, there was only the Catholic Church. Were there not many different sects of christian churches who were apart from the Catholic Church in every century? And that they all believed they were following Christ’s teachings?

If so then what claims do they have? Do they have apostlic succesion, or writtings passed on from earlier christians that believed their teachings?

I know the Catholic Church has a list that dates back to St. Peter and the first Bishops. But non-catholics do not believe this. They say that even though the early church fathers sound “catholic” they still differed on many issues and even believed doctrines the Church doesn’t now teach.

Any coments on this?

As I said in a post yesterday, if the Catholic Church is not the Church started by the Apostles, sent by Christ himself, then why did both the Eastern and Western Churches come to possess nearly identical structures and beliefs, having developed separately from each other? This could only be because they evolved from the same source. Both have seven sacraments, bishops, priests, infant baptism, etc. Neither believe in SS, OSAS, or any other doctrines which Protestants claim were present from the beginning.

If these East/West Churches, that we now call Catholic and Orthodox, are not the Apostolic Church started by Jesus, then what He intended never developed at all or was lost. Do you really think He would allow that to happen to His sheep?

The others who claimed to be “Christians” at that time were people like the Gnostics who were never there from the beginning. They decided to incorporate fabrications about Jesus into their already existing Jewish mysticism.

 

[Genesis315]

There have been a variety of sects that existed before Protestantism. The oldest one that is still standing is the schismatical Copts, aka the Oriental Orthodox Church. They left when they rejected the 4th Ecumenical Council (Chalcedon).

Also, besides the Greeks that left in 1054, there were other heretical sects than came and went before Protestantism came on the scene–the Donatists, Waldensians, the various Gnostic and Judaizing sects, the Brussites, etc. The Scriptures foretold that there would be many heresies and schisms.

The thing is, besides dying out none of them resembled modern Protestantism. Protestabtism was a new religion.

 

[Fidelis]

The main thing to keep in mind is that Christ came to found one Church. Schisms and heresies are only possible if there is something to be schismatic from and heretical against. Search the New Testament: there is no NT precedent and there is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus’ desire and plan was to have his Church splinter off to thousands of competing sects and free-wheeling “churches.” Schism and denominationalism is shameful, prideful, unbiblical, and a scandal to the unbelieving world. It is not one’s fault to be born into schism, but it is ignorant and prideful to perpetuate it.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I know the Catholic Church has a list that dates back to St. Peter and the first Bishops. But non-catholics do not believe this.

True, because it is just not there prior to Irenaeus…189 ad, no proof for over 150 years.

They say that even though the early church fathers sound “catholic” they still differed on many issues and even believed doctrines the Church doesn’t now teach.

Any coments on this?

Very insightful, if you have a chance read through the “ECF same doctrine?” thread.