The Early Church: If They Weren't Catholic, What Were They?

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Nicea325 said:
Anna, I do not see any issue with the statement from your source. Honestly,I think you are reading far to much into the matter.

Anna,unfortunately the church does not have absolute mind or physical control over every single Catholic. Some Catholics will still disagree with the pope and that is nothing new. I really think you are looking to deep in the matter.
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Nicea,

Submitting “mind and will” to a religious leader is a big issue for me.

Anna
 
crazzeto said:
There is a point at which such disagreement becomes heresy however, and it is good to know what point that is.
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Crazzeto,

I really respect your careful consideration of questions and your willingness to spend time getting answers—and for the sources you provide (i.e. in our discussion about Eucharistic Adoration.) 🙂

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Nicea,

Submitting “mind and will” to a religious leader is a big issue for me.

Anna
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Given your experience, I can understand… Particularly since the tradition you grew up with fundamentally rejected any such “religious authority”. I think the best question to ask though, is this… Did Christ intend to leave behind authority figures?

I’m sure you know my feelings on that subject matters. For me ultimitly putting my mind, will and faith the more local authority, extends to submitting my mind, will and placing all my faith in Christ him self.

As an interesting note, it would seem that this is the constant struggle… Some jews for instance, rebelled against moses him self in the desert! They made much the same claims being made today by many sects.
 
Protestant101 said:
Why then won’t you come home and “carry over” that seventh-day Sabbath you love to argue about then?
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Because I have been given a NEW Law and a new and everlasting covenant by Jesus. I ( we ) am not bound by the “old Law”. That was fulfilled ( completed ) by Jesus by His being nailed to the Cross.

I know you do not accept the words of Jesus. That is your problem.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
crazzeto said:
Given your experience, I can understand… Particularly since the tradition you grew up with fundamentally rejected any such “religious authority”. I think the best question to ask though, is this… Did Christ intend to leave behind authority figures?

I’m sure you know my feelings on that subject matters. For me ultimitly putting my mind, will and faith the more local authority, extends to submitting my mind, will and placing all my faith in Christ him self.

As an interesting note, it would seem that this is the constant struggle… Some jews for instance, rebelled against moses him self in the desert! They made much the same claims being made today by many sects.
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Ironically, I have attended Baptist Churches, where ministers required far more devotion to their “interpretations” than the Pope expects from Catholics. I got into a whole mess of trouble for saying that on a Baptist forum. They banned me as a “Catholic troll.”

Anna
 
Ferde_Rombola said:
Peace to you, too brother. Please know there are thousands of us praying daily for your safety and your safe return.
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thank you my dear friend. and i believe it too. they havent let me leave the f.o.b. yet! apparently, the Good Lord sees fit to keep me on base at the present. it just gives me more time to buy fruit bars and granola bars ( chocolate flavor) for the kids when i eventually do get to go out. they love those. i dont want to give them candy, because im not sure if they have very good dental. and they really dont need sugar. if they are hyper enough to throw rocks at the trucks, i dont think they need anything to sweet to make them any higher strung… 😃 seriously though. appreciate the prayers. been here a month, and no casualties in our ranks. looking forward to changing my location to hawaii again. Peace and Grace to you. 🙂
 
benidict said:
thank you my dear friend. and i believe it too. they havent let me leave the f.o.b. yet! apparently, the Good Lord sees fit to keep me on base at the present. it just gives me more time to buy fruit bars and granola bars ( chocolate flavor) for the kids when i eventually do get to go out. they love those. i dont want to give them candy, because im not sure if they have very good dental. and they really dont need sugar. if they are hyper enough to throw rocks at the trucks, i dont think they need anything to sweet to make them any higher strung… 😃 seriously though. appreciate the prayers. been here a month, and no casualties in our ranks. looking forward to changing my location to hawaii again. Peace and Grace to you. 🙂
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Soldier Benidict,

So glad to see you on the forums! You know you have my prayers. :gopray:

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Nicea,

Submitting “mind and will” to a religious leader is a big issue for me.

Anna
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Depends on what grounds. If the pope is not accord with doctrine and teaching heresy,then of course. Your statement sounds a bit overgeneralized.

Does David Koresh or Jim Jones ring a bell? Do you consider those two men in accord with the gospel of Christ? Many submitted ‘mind and will’ to them regardless if both were in the wrong. That is called a cult,not an orthodox teaching.
 
Nicea325 said:
Depends on what grounds. If the pope is not accord with doctrine and teaching heresy,then of course. Your statement sounds a bit overgeneralized.

Does David Koresh or Jim Jones ring a bell? Do you consider those two men in accord with the gospel of Christ? Many submitted ‘mind and will’ to them regardless if both were in the wrong. That is called a cult,not an orthodox teaching.
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Submitting “mind and will” are not my words. They are taken from the following and it is what is expected of Catholics:

Link: vatican.va/archive/hist_c…entium_en.html
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
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  1. Among the principal duties of bishops the preaching of the Gospel occupies an eminent place.(39*) For bishops are preachers of the faith, who lead new disciples to Christ, and they are authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach to the people committed to them the faith they must believe and put into practice, and by the light of the Holy Spirit illustrate that faith. They bring forth from the treasury of Revelation new things and old,(164) making it bear fruit and vigilantly warding off any errors that threaten their flock.
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(165) Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.
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Anna_Scott said:
Soldier Benidict,

So glad to see you on the forums! You know you have my prayers. :gopray:

Anna
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good to see you too anna. im up all night on duty tonight. and i know your prayers are effective 🙂 enjoying the exchange you are having tonight. very informative. i must say i myself believe in hell. if there is no such place, then people like adolf hitler, stalin, pole pot. and all other very wicked people get a pass. if i did not believe that God was just, as well as merciful, i would have to be an atheist. also i agree with you. i have also seen fundamentalist preachers, who expect more loyalty to their interpretation than the pope does of Catholics. those folks scare me. Peace and Grace to you and prayers for your continued health. 🙂
 
And rest assured there are trigger-happy folks in here who report at the drop of a hat, too, sadly…
Anna_Scott said:
Ironically, I have attended Baptist Churches, where ministers required far more devotion to their “interpretations” than the Pope expects from Catholics. I got into a whole mess of trouble for saying that on a Baptist forum. They banned me as a “Catholic troll.”

Anna
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The VERY disturbing part of this archived statement is this part for me:

This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will.

That seems to take obedience futher with the papacy than Catholics claim it to be?
Anna_Scott said:
Submitting “mind and will” are not my words. They are taken from the following and it is what is expected of Catholics:

Link: vatican.va/archive/hist_c…entium_en.html
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
The VERY disturbing part of this archived statement is this part for me:

This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will.

That seems to take obedience futher with the papacy than Catholics claim it to be?
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Yeah, it does. Crazzeto says he’s going to try calling Fr. Mitch Pacwa, tomorrow, to see what his thoughts are about it.

Anna
 
I’ve gotta get off the forums for a bit. I forgot to eat lunch. 😊

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
I’ve gotta get off the forums for a bit. I forgot to eat lunch. 😊

Anna
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this is weird. its midnight here. 😃 and im getting hungry! gonna have to wait 5 more hours till i can eat though anna. maybe someone could post a picture of a big juicy burger here for me…enjoy! Peace 🙂
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I wish I could learn to forget lunch! LOL…I never forget a meal! (pig squeel sound in background LOL)
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hey gurney? aint you the one who puts the breakfast platter pic up once in a while? or am i thinking of someone else? 😉 peace 🙂
 
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