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KathleenGee
Guest
I have a question: Do Anglicans have Adoration of the Eucharist?
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Bluegoat
Guest
Some do. I wouldn’t say it was common. There is a tendency to avoid using the Eucharist outside of actually eating it among many. Even so, many will pray with the reserved Sacrament for Good Friday after the Maunday Thursday service.
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GKC
Guest
My parish observes Benediction and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, but it is not done regularly. The usual is done during Holy Week.
GKC
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KathleenGee
Guest
Adoration brings great blessings to those who go, especially to those who go regularly, and the practice brings much peace and understanding to the parish as a whole.
We used to have our churches open during the day time. So you could go in to pray and spend time with the Lord.
I used to live by a Carmelite convent. There was so much peace in the neighborhood. Adoration blesses the families, good things happen, people see greater witness of the Lord’s providence in all their necessities, and protection as well.
We used to have our churches open during the day time. So you could go in to pray and spend time with the Lord.
I used to live by a Carmelite convent. There was so much peace in the neighborhood. Adoration blesses the families, good things happen, people see greater witness of the Lord’s providence in all their necessities, and protection as well.
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GKC
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The same is true, at all time, with us, though of course, as with you, the church isn’t always open.
But Blessed Body is always reserved, in the Tabernacle, on the altar, easy to find.
GKC
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KathleenGee
Guest
So, thinking as a devout commoner, I thought I read somewhere in spiritual readings that is the clergy is out or off or special circumstances…can the faithful in extraordinary circumstances consecrate the bread? Only a priest can…not clear…a Baptist woman told me she believes in the literal of Christ’s words, ‘This is my body, this is my blood’, but she does not believe in the priesthood…so she prays over the bread in her home and then believes she is receiving on the Eucharist…
I was with a family for two months caring for a sick member…they told me their tradition goes all the way back to the beginning of Christianity…their leaders receive no money. They do not meet in churches but in homes…the last night there, the man wanted to share a concern for me from Luke, ‘Let no man call another Father, but only the Father in heaven’…not exact words…I told him we are using different context when we call our priests, ‘Father’ and know the difference. So i told him not to worry about me…he said OK. But they do not believe in the breaking of the bread…very nice people who do not want to be part of any public church controversies and conflicts. Very gentle and kind and loving people.
I was with a family for two months caring for a sick member…they told me their tradition goes all the way back to the beginning of Christianity…their leaders receive no money. They do not meet in churches but in homes…the last night there, the man wanted to share a concern for me from Luke, ‘Let no man call another Father, but only the Father in heaven’…not exact words…I told him we are using different context when we call our priests, ‘Father’ and know the difference. So i told him not to worry about me…he said OK. But they do not believe in the breaking of the bread…very nice people who do not want to be part of any public church controversies and conflicts. Very gentle and kind and loving people.
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davec66
Guest
The early church was called “the way” They were also called Christians. **To your answer the response above, what history are you reading? **Well, I don’t think they called themselves Catholic, it was just the church…but if we look at their worship/beliefs or if we trace the history of that church they most resemble the Catholic and Orthodox churches of today’s time.
The reason a lot of protestants/fundamentalists like to claim their church was founded by Christ is because they ignore the liturgics of the early church. A lot of my protestant friends think that the early Christians sat in a circle and talked about Jesus in church
If you want to know what the church was like when it was started you only need to go to the bible. Using Acts and the letters of Paul we know the Church in the beginning was nothing like the Catholic Church is today. There were no, priests bishops or pope. Each church was independent. Missionaries like the Apostles started them. They were made up of converted Jews and pagan Gentiles. Whether they met on Sunday or Saturday is I believe still debatable. They met in homes or synagogues. They chose there leaders from their own members. They would have sang hymns, had communion, fellowshipped and studied the Septuagint(old testament written in Greek) because the new testament was not written yet. Some of these leaders(elders) of these churches went out and founded new congregations and when they did these elders became the leaders of the new congregation and remained the leader of their home church.
Over time these men became the Bishops of the church. By the 3rd century, church buildings were built. By the 4th century, there were 4 Bishops that were regional in nature and over all the other church leaders. One of them was the Bishop of Rome. When Constantine became emperor and adopted Christianity the Bishop of Rome elevated himself to Pope. The Bishops of the eastern church did not except the Pope and that is why there is the Orthodox church today.
As the church progressed and grew, it went farther and farther from the teachings of Jesus and adopted the teachings of man and pagans. One of the main things that Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders of his day for. Christianity had become a religion of rules. All about money and power. I think he called them vipers, hypocrites and dead on the inside.
Martin Luther saw the corruption and tried to reform the Church. Because power and money were the motive of the church he could not change it so he left it. Men had tried before him tried to reform the church but, they were killed by the church.
Later, mostly in the US in the18th century the restoration movement came along which was an attempt to restore the original church of the 1st century and that is one reason why there are so many different denominations today. From that movement came the Baptists, Methodist and Mormons to name a few.
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1holycatholic
Guest
You should read the Ante-Nicene Early Church Fathers.
P.S. Baptists and Methodists are not from the restorationist movement.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Thanks, GKC, for the recommended reading…that ecumenism class I took was the very last one after 5 years of parttime study…I was caring for my father and remember it was then that his health was going down…I almost fell of my seat and had to excuse myself in one session…may be that was on Anglicanism…I wish I could have remembered more as it was fascinating…
It was said by somebody that the Anglicans/Episcopalians have the best parishes in the USA…met a fellow this past winter who switched and was telling me how wonderful parish life was…we are still coming out of the controversies of Vatican II…people have to let go of the baggage…accept the diversity of liturgy…my pastor is the one who is counselling the abuse victims…and all his daily homilies are on the universal, apostolic perspective, giving us clear understanding of context of times for particular texts…laity in parish all want to get along with each other and are very appropriate with one another…no contention,etc.
I wish I had the time to get into more in-depth reading…but we constantly pray at Mass for Christian unity and for that day I believe will come again where we are of one bread and one body…that is where I try to keep my identity rather than ‘being right’ if you know what I mean…
I pray that we all be one…as God’s family!
It was said by somebody that the Anglicans/Episcopalians have the best parishes in the USA…met a fellow this past winter who switched and was telling me how wonderful parish life was…we are still coming out of the controversies of Vatican II…people have to let go of the baggage…accept the diversity of liturgy…my pastor is the one who is counselling the abuse victims…and all his daily homilies are on the universal, apostolic perspective, giving us clear understanding of context of times for particular texts…laity in parish all want to get along with each other and are very appropriate with one another…no contention,etc.
I wish I had the time to get into more in-depth reading…but we constantly pray at Mass for Christian unity and for that day I believe will come again where we are of one bread and one body…that is where I try to keep my identity rather than ‘being right’ if you know what I mean…
I pray that we all be one…as God’s family!
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GKC
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crazzeto
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Using the King James Version Bible:
No Bishop?
1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
2Ti 4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen. The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 3:15 All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen. It was written to Titus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Cretians, from Nicopolis of Macedonia.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
No Pope?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
The priest comment is eye opening, as they were all over the bible from the OT to the NT. For instance, the Hebrew Priests, God calling his people in the OT (and NT) a priestly people. If there are no priests, how can anyone be priestly?
I appologize for the quick proof texting, but in this case I think some scripture needs to be thrown out there.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Dave,
On page 57, I shared an explanation of the Mass dated 155, *843, 845…and before that various parts of the Mass were being drawn together in form from various locations in the early Christian world.
How St. Justin describes the Mass, and he has some other writings, is in the same tone and intent as today’s Mass. The Nazarenes met synagogues after their expulsion from mainline Jews; the Gentiles worshipped in family homes to those belonging to the rich…the Great Heresy was not believing in the divinity of the Eucharist. Just as Christ had followers who left Him immediately prior to the Last Supper, so did followers split off from those who had held common communion.
It has been a common tendency in Christianity for people to break away from each other and draw exclusively to God…and this is what brings about inter-faith condemnation and fighting to the point of wars. The Council of Nicea came about several hundred years later to give us the complete definition of Who Christ is, True God and True Man. Christ had to come to this earth to restore us to God and to our neighbor. What we do to our neighbor, we do to Christ.
All the more we recall His words that He would always remain with us – the sacraments, and that He would give us His Comforter Who would teach us many things…the Word of God is Made Flesh fulfilled in human flesh…and all its humanity and weaknesses…in His Church, His Bride.
On page 57, I shared an explanation of the Mass dated 155, *843, 845…and before that various parts of the Mass were being drawn together in form from various locations in the early Christian world.
How St. Justin describes the Mass, and he has some other writings, is in the same tone and intent as today’s Mass. The Nazarenes met synagogues after their expulsion from mainline Jews; the Gentiles worshipped in family homes to those belonging to the rich…the Great Heresy was not believing in the divinity of the Eucharist. Just as Christ had followers who left Him immediately prior to the Last Supper, so did followers split off from those who had held common communion.
It has been a common tendency in Christianity for people to break away from each other and draw exclusively to God…and this is what brings about inter-faith condemnation and fighting to the point of wars. The Council of Nicea came about several hundred years later to give us the complete definition of Who Christ is, True God and True Man. Christ had to come to this earth to restore us to God and to our neighbor. What we do to our neighbor, we do to Christ.
All the more we recall His words that He would always remain with us – the sacraments, and that He would give us His Comforter Who would teach us many things…the Word of God is Made Flesh fulfilled in human flesh…and all its humanity and weaknesses…in His Church, His Bride.
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inkaneer
Guest
What a crock!!! First of all the church was not independant. If you don’t believe me look at Acts 15. The church in Antioch had a problem. Did they settle it themselves? If they were independant, as you claim, they would have. But they went to Peter and the Apostles in Jerusalem. They went to authority. Later, about 80 AD, the church in Corinth will also have a problem that it could not resolve and they will go to Clement in Rome for resolution. Why go to Clement in Rome when at least one Apostle, the Apostle John, was still alive and in Ephesus? Because Clement was the third successor to Peter. Even in the first century the office of the Papacy was recognized. As for bishops and priests read your bible. The Greek words for these offices are *episcopoi *and *presbuteros *. And Yes Apostles started the churches and you will find those same churches today. They are now called Rites and there are 22 of them in the Catholic Church and all can trace their Apostolic Succession back to one of the Apostlles. The Orthodox and Copts can do likewise.
As for liturgy that was settled early on. It followed the Jewish seder with the Eucharist as was the Last Supper. When Jesus said, “Do this…” That is what they did. We still do it today although we now call it the Mass but then it was called the breaking of bread, the thanksgiving eucharistia, (Greek)], The Apostles ordained bishops. Paul ordained Titus and Timothy; John ordained Polycarp and Ignatius; Peter ordained Elvodius and Clement. The Apostles also ordained preists presbuteros]to attend to the spiritual needs and deacons diakonai]the temperal needs of the faithful.
And you are dead wrong that the church strayed from the teachings of Christ. Your statement is totally unscriptural because you are speaking of the church that Jesus said that hell would not prevail over; the church that Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead into all truth and the church that Jesus said He would remain with until the end of the Age. So how could we go wrong??? This is a false allegation made by protestants to try to justify their rebellion. As for Martin Luther he was a victim of parental abuse who, as a result, resented authority be it parental, organizational, ecclesiastical or otherwise His sola scriptura was his answer to eliminating church authority. Every protestant today who avows sola scriptura and denies the Catholic Church is following in the footsteps of a psychologically wounded heretic and not Jesus Christ. Luther lived long enough to see the fruits of sola scriptura when others came and interpreted scripture differently than he. Today there are as many as 30,000-40,000 protestant denominations [depending on which protestant source you want] and all of them claim to have the truth. Along the way protestants have dropped many of the beliefs of the original reformers because they were “too Catholic”. The so called 'reformation" reformed nothing. It was a rebellion against God and his church which is still here as Jesus said it would be. Hell has not prevailed over it even though its members are sinners [Jesus said the church was infallible not impeccable] and Jesus is still with His Church.
Continued next post…
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inkaneer
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Continued from previous post…
By the way if you want to discuss people “killed by the church” let’s talk of the Catholics who were killed by protestants. How about the nuns who were raped then killed; the priests who were tortured [they cut off their fingers so they could not hold the Eucharist] then murdered. Let’s talk of the Catholic churches and monasteries that were destroyed, desecrated or confiscated. And all this was done in the name of Protestantism.
Do you really want to talk about it???
By the way if you want to discuss people “killed by the church” let’s talk of the Catholics who were killed by protestants. How about the nuns who were raped then killed; the priests who were tortured [they cut off their fingers so they could not hold the Eucharist] then murdered. Let’s talk of the Catholic churches and monasteries that were destroyed, desecrated or confiscated. And all this was done in the name of Protestantism.
Do you really want to talk about it???
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Anna_Scott
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inkaneer,
davec66 just joined the forums yesterday. Cut the guy a little slack. I can feel your rage all the way to Texas.
Anna
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
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Anna_Scott
Guest
Yeah. Don’t mess with Texas is right. Everybody has a gun. :bigyikes: It’s scary sometimes. But then. . . . you have the “terminator” who seems to be working on “terminating” California.And don’t mess with Texas!Or California! Schwarzenegger has already messed it up!
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inkaneer
Guest
I know. But I think it is for his benefit that he realize that the old protestant falsehoods he learned about Catholicism don’t fly. Hopefully it will cause him to use the gift of reason that he was endowed with by God and do the research OR at least come here with an open mind and ask questions rather than spout old tired false allegations that have been laid to rest time and time again. My recommendation to davec66 or anyone else is if you want to know what Catholics believe then ask but don’t come here and try to tell us what we believe or state something that isn’t true.
Protestants are here for two primary reasons. Some are here in a genuine search to find out the Catholic position of matters. Others come here with an agenda and that agenda is usually anti Catholic bigotry. davec66 made some statements that were not true. An example was that the early churches were independant. I told him he was wrong and cited the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Now I don’t know if he came here with an agenda or not. If he did not then I would hope that Davec66 was serious enough about the truth that he would get his bible and check it out. If he would he would see I was correct. I hope he would do that with all that I posted and if I am wrong on something then point it out to me or we can discuss it. If he wasn’t serious about the truth, if he came here with an agenda, then it really doesn’t matter what I said or how I said it.
By the way, it’s not rage that you sense. It is an intense desire for truth to be revealed. I would hope that it comes across that way but apparently it does not.
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Bluegoat
Guest
This is something I learned the hard way. That kind of intensity is really scary to many people. And it is even easier to misunderstand in writing on the internet. It’s always best to remember that we don’t know much about people - their age, experience, mental status, or even if English is their first language.
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