The Early Church: If They Weren't Catholic, What Were They?

[Nicea325]

I know. But I think it is for his benefit that he realize that the old protestant falsehoods he learned about Catholicism don’t fly. Hopefully it will cause him to use the gift of reason that he was endowed with by God and do the research OR at least come here with an open mind and ask questions rather than spout old tired false allegations that have been laid to rest time and time again. My recommendation to davec66 or anyone else is if you want to know what Catholics believe then ask but don’t come here and try to tell us what we believe or state something that isn’t true.

Protestants are here for two primary reasons. Some are here in a genuine search to find out the Catholic position of matters. Others come here with an agenda and that agenda is usually anti Catholic bigotry. davec66 made some statements that were not true. An example was that the early churches were independant. I told him he was wrong and cited the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Now I don’t know if he came here with an agenda or not. If he did not then I would hope that Davec66 was serious enough about the truth that he would get his bible and check it out. If he would he would see I was correct. I hope he would do that with all that I posted and if I am wrong on something then point it out to me or we can discuss it. If he wasn’t serious about the truth, if he came here with an agenda, then it really doesn’t matter what I said or how I said it.

By the way, it’s not rage that you sense. It is an intense desire for truth to be revealed. I would hope that it comes across that way but apparently it does not.

davec66 made some statements that were not true. An example was that the early churches were independant

Oh indeed! I have heard the same belief,which is absurd! It is all hearsay with no empirical evidence backing up such a claim. It is another anti-Catholic going out on a limb trying to prove the early church was Protestant from the get-go. LOL

 

[crazzeto]

By the way, it’s not rage that you sense. It is an intense desire for truth to be revealed. I would hope that it comes across that way but apparently it does not.

I can sympathise with this, more than once I’ve found my self caught up in the same situation. However I think it’s best for all of us to remember that the best witness we can offer is in charity (at least certainly in the internet) rather than angry sounding firy passion.

Heck, charity alone has gotten my non-denom, dispensational evangelical friend to admit that Catholisism is a “Christian offshoot”… I’m still working on him =P

 

[1holycatholic]

I can sympathise with this, more than once I’ve found my self caught up in the same situation. However I think it’s best for all of us to remember that the best witness we can offer is in charity (at least certainly in the internet) rather than angry sounding firy passion.

Heck, charity alone has gotten my non-denom, dispensational evangelical friend to admit that Catholisism is a “Christian offshoot”… I’m still working on him =P

If there were no Catholic Church there would be no Bible* - a book which proceeds from the Catholic Church* (not the other way around as your friend suggests.) There is an enormous amount of historical evidence to that fact.

 

[crazzeto]

If there were no Catholic Church there would be no Bible* - a book which proceeds from the Catholic Church* (not the other way around as your friend suggests.) There is an enormous amount of historical evidence to that fact.

More of that firy excitement… You’re preaching to the choir here brother =)

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

He isn’t working on it, he’s done it! But don’t get me started on Arnie!!

Yeah. Don’t mess with Texas is right. Everybody has a gun. :bigyikes: It’s scary sometimes. But then. . . . you have the “terminator” who seems to be working on “terminating” California.

 

[Soldier_X]

He isn’t working on it, he’s done it! But don’t get me started on Arnie!!

It’s da Gubinator. Ah’ll be back.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I know. But I think it is for his benefit that he realize that the old protestant falsehoods he learned about Catholicism don’t fly. Hopefully it will cause him to use the gift of reason that he was endowed with by God and do the research OR at least come here with an open mind and ask questions rather than spout old tired false allegations that have been laid to rest time and time again. My recommendation to davec66 or anyone else is if you want to know what Catholics believe then ask but don’t come here and try to tell us what we believe or state something that isn’t true.

Protestants are here for two primary reasons. Some are here in a genuine search to find out the Catholic position of matters. Others come here with an agenda and that agenda is usually anti Catholic bigotry. davec66 made some statements that were not true. An example was that the early churches were independant. I told him he was wrong and cited the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Now I don’t know if he came here with an agenda or not. If he did not then I would hope that Davec66 was serious enough about the truth that he would get his bible and check it out. If he would he would see I was correct. I hope he would do that with all that I posted and if I am wrong on something then point it out to me or we can discuss it. If he wasn’t serious about the truth, if he came here with an agenda, then it really doesn’t matter what I said or how I said it.

By the way, it’s not rage that you sense. It is an intense desire for truth to be revealed. I would hope that it comes across that way but apparently it does not.

inkaneer,

I understand that you are offended; just as I am offended when some Catholics make blanket statements about Protestants, or say that we are not your brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, I can tell you from my own experience, that many Protestants come here carrying the weight of years of indoctrination and false assumptions about Catholicism. The problem is, if you scare them off, they’ll leave thinking they were right about Catholics.

It takes time to shed years of indoctrination and misinformation. I know, because I struggle with this everyday.

 

[KathleenGee]

Anna,

There is a priest who was recently ordained who came from a fundamentalist family. His entire walk was known by setbacks because the fear and doubt would creep back in.

He is now serving the Lord and in much peace and joy.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,

There is a priest who was recently ordained who came from a fundamentalist family. His entire walk was known by setbacks because the fear and doubt would creep back in.

He is now serving the Lord and in much peace and joy.

Kathleen,

It’s tough, Kathleen. Some people know immediately what they should do. Others like myself take forever. At least I have it narrowed down to three. Sometimes it’s like traveling on a fast-moving, 3-lane, supper highway; and I keep changing lanes—trying desperately to avoid a catastrophic accident.

I often think about Scott Hahn’s wife, who took 5 years to come into the Catholic Church. So, I guess there’s hope for me.

I’ve been following your posts. You write from a peaceful place.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

I know. But I think it is for his benefit that he realize that the old protestant falsehoods he learned about Catholicism don’t fly. Hopefully it will cause him to use the gift of reason that he was endowed with by God and do the research OR at least come here with an open mind and ask questions rather than spout old tired false allegations that have been laid to rest time and time again. My recommendation to davec66 or anyone else is if you want to know what Catholics believe then ask but don’t come here and try to tell us what we believe or state something that isn’t true.

Protestants are here for two primary reasons. Some are here in a genuine search to find out the Catholic position of matters. Others come here with an agenda and that agenda is usually anti Catholic bigotry. davec66 made some statements that were not true. An example was that the early churches were independant. I told him he was wrong and cited the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Now I don’t know if he came here with an agenda or not. If he did not then I would hope that Davec66 was serious enough about the truth that he would get his bible and check it out. If he would he would see I was correct. I hope he would do that with all that I posted and if I am wrong on something then point it out to me or we can discuss it. If he wasn’t serious about the truth, if he came here with an agenda, then it really doesn’t matter what I said or how I said it.

By the way, it’s not rage that you sense. It is an intense desire for truth to be revealed. I would hope that it comes across that way but apparently it does not.

inkaneer,

I understand that you are offended; just as I am offended when some Catholics make blanket statements about Protestants, or say that we are not your brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, I can tell you from my own experience, that many Protestants come here carrying the weight of years of indoctrination and false assumptions about Catholicism. The problem is, if you scare them off, they’ll leave thinking they were right about Catholics.

It takes time to shed years of indoctrination and misinformation. I know, because I struggle with this everyday.

inkaneer,

Well, I may have to eat some crow. Hope it’s a tender bird.

From The Lord’s Supper Thread:

davec66,
I just asked people to cut you some slack on another thread, since you are new to the forums; and then I find you posting links to anti-Catholic websites. You have many obvious false assumptions about Catholicism. At least consider what Catholics tell you about their faith.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If he comes back, I’m moving to Arizona! I like their politics! LOL!! Now that’s a governor!

It’s da Gubinator. Ah’ll be back.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

And sadly Protestants get ripped to shreds as irrelevent, misguided, lost sheep in here so frequently. They’re treated with a less than charitable reception at times giving them reinforcement that they are in the right place. There is a heap of misconceptions and false things said about Anglicans in here and Lutherans as well. I also hear all the time about how Protestants all bash Catholics and yet in the Anglican parishes I’ve been in they’re very gracious about Catholics and view them as brothers in Christ, which is often not reciprocated. There is a lot of false info and labels on both sides, sadly, thrown around.

inkaneer,

I understand that you are offended; just as I am offended when some Catholics make blanket statements about Protestants, or say that we are not your brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, I can tell you from my own experience, that many Protestants come here carrying the weight of years of indoctrination and false assumptions about Catholicism. The problem is, if you scare them off, they’ll leave thinking they were right about Catholics.

It takes time to shed years of indoctrination and misinformation. I know, because I struggle with this everyday.

 

[Anna_Scott]

And sadly Protestants get ripped to shreds as irrelevent, misguided, lost sheep in here so frequently. They’re treated with a less than charitable reception at times giving them reinforcement that they are in the right place. There is a heap of misconceptions and false things said about Anglicans in here and Lutherans as well. I also hear all the time about how Protestants all bash Catholics and yet in the Anglican parishes I’ve been in they’re very gracious about Catholics and view them as brothers in Christ, which is often not reciprocated. There is a lot of false info and labels on both sides, sadly, thrown around.

Did you see my Post #973? Crow’s cooking for dinner.

Anna

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I might add a third category. Your two categories assume there is something missing in the Protestant’s heart and so he’s searching to learn from you OR he’s an angry jerk out to trash Catholics. Both are negative views of Protestants. Here’s a third option–maybe a Protestant respects Catholics, retains his own views that he truly believes in from his faith and knowledge, and just wants fellowship and mutual respect and dialogue with Catholics.

I know several non-Catholics in here be they Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. and they love Catholics. They love and respect much of what Catholicism teaches or its traditions and beauty. They don’t want to buy the product but they’d like you to understand and respect their faith as they try to respect yours. It’s a friendly forum, CAF, and I think the best one I’ve ever seen. Protestants are feeling welcome and not constantly bashed and disrespected even though a few in here go too far. Sometimes Catholics feel like Protestants have been taking advantage of their bad catechesis for so many decades that now that Catholics are empowered with Catholic Answers, EWTN, Patrick Madrid, Akin, and Hahn that it’s time to return the favor. I don’t like that either. Thankfully there’s not much of that. I really like CAF and hope that more and more charity will be shown to Protestants and the third option will be considered. Not all want to convert Catholics. Not all are jerks trying to be anti-Catholic. A lot just like a good, solid theological discussion and even debate and it’s a compliment that they choose your Catholic forum and respect it enough to feel welcome to do so. So kudos to CAF for fostering a good environment I think.

I know. But I think it is for his benefit that he realize that the old protestant falsehoods he learned about Catholicism don’t fly. Hopefully it will cause him to use the gift of reason that he was endowed with by God and do the research OR at least come here with an open mind and ask questions rather than spout old tired false allegations that have been laid to rest time and time again. My recommendation to davec66 or anyone else is if you want to know what Catholics believe then ask but don’t come here and try to tell us what we believe or state something that isn’t true.

Protestants are here for two primary reasons. Some are here in a genuine search to find out the Catholic position of matters. Others come here with an agenda and that agenda is usually anti Catholic bigotry. davec66 made some statements that were not true. An example was that the early churches were independant. I told him he was wrong and cited the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Now I don’t know if he came here with an agenda or not. If he did not then I would hope that Davec66 was serious enough about the truth that he would get his bible and check it out. If he would he would see I was correct. I hope he would do that with all that I posted and if I am wrong on something then point it out to me or we can discuss it. If he wasn’t serious about the truth, if he came here with an agenda, then it really doesn’t matter what I said or how I said it.

By the way, it’s not rage that you sense. It is an intense desire for truth to be revealed. I would hope that it comes across that way but apparently it does not.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I might add a third category. Your two categories assume there is something missing in the Protestant’s heart and so he’s searching to learn from you OR he’s an angry jerk out to trash Catholics. Both are negative views of Protestants. Here’s a third option–maybe a Protestant respects Catholics, retains his own views that he truly believes in from his faith and knowledge, and just wants fellowship and mutual respect and dialogue with Catholics.

I know several non-Catholics in here be they Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. and they love Catholics. They love and respect much of what Catholicism teaches or its traditions and beauty. They don’t want to buy the product but they’d like you to understand and respect their faith as they try to respect yours. It’s a friendly forum, CAF, and I think the best one I’ve ever seen. Protestants are feeling welcome and not constantly bashed and disrespected even though a few in here go too far. Sometimes Catholics feel like Protestants have been taking advantage of their bad catechesis for so many decades that now that Catholics are empowered with Catholic Answers, EWTN, Patrick Madrid, Akin, and Hahn that it’s time to return the favor. I don’t like that either. Thankfully there’s not much of that. I really like CAF and hope that more and more charity will be shown to Protestants and the third option will be considered. Not all want to convert Catholics. Not all are jerks trying to be anti-Catholic. A lot just like a good, solid theological discussion and even debate and it’s a compliment that they choose your Catholic forum and respect it enough to feel welcome to do so. So kudos to CAF for fostering a good environment I think.

gurney,

I was just getting ready to sign off for the night and then read your post. I really appreciate your words here gurney.

I am one of those who does have a great respect for Catholics. Sometimes I get frustrated or feel burned out and think I’m going to take an extended break; but I keep coming back. That says something for the forums. I think I will always feel an attachment to those of you who have been, and still are, a part of my journey for God’s truth.

Anna

 

[GKC]

I might add a third category. Your two categories assume there is something missing in the Protestant’s heart and so he’s searching to learn from you OR he’s an angry jerk out to trash Catholics. Both are negative views of Protestants. Here’s a third option–maybe a Protestant respects Catholics, retains his own views that he truly believes in from his faith and knowledge, and just wants fellowship and mutual respect and dialogue with Catholics.

I know several non-Catholics in here be they Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. and they love Catholics. They love and respect much of what Catholicism teaches or its traditions and beauty. They don’t want to buy the product but they’d like you to understand and respect their faith as they try to respect yours. It’s a friendly forum, CAF, and I think the best one I’ve ever seen. Protestants are feeling welcome and not constantly bashed and disrespected even though a few in here go too far. Sometimes Catholics feel like Protestants have been taking advantage of their bad catechesis for so many decades that now that Catholics are empowered with Catholic Answers, EWTN, Patrick Madrid, Akin, and Hahn that it’s time to return the favor. I don’t like that either. Thankfully there’s not much of that. I really like CAF and hope that more and more charity will be shown to Protestants and the third option will be considered. Not all want to convert Catholics. Not all are jerks trying to be anti-Catholic. A lot just like a good, solid theological discussion and even debate and it’s a compliment that they choose your Catholic forum and respect it enough to feel welcome to do so. So kudos to CAF for fostering a good environment I think.

I agree with Gurney. Except for a word or two, that is of no consequence, overall.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus

 

[Ignatias20]

There is no way around it,they were CATHOLIC. The profound misunderstanding many non-Catholics fail to understand is that “Roman” Catholic is a rite,not a separate entity apart from the early Church,which was Catholic. The early church certainly was not Protestant due to the fact all those under Protestanism,Evangelicals,etc were founded many centuries later and those are facts of history. I once had a fundamentalist tell me the church she attended was the church Christ founded? Better yet that the churches mentioned in the Bible were Protestant? Really? Funny how she never bothered to show any historical evidence backing up her claim?

Nicra, you and I say the same thing. “Catholic” is the universal church that Jesus started when He said to Peter in Matthew, 16: v 16 - 20, “Peter you are the rock and on this rock I will build My church” …I will give you the keys to the Kingdom, etc. Notice that Jesys used the Singular! He said church - Not churches.
The very early church Could Not be Protestant because to be Protestant, at least at the beginning of Protestantism, they had to be Protesting against the Roman Catholic Church. That is a historical fact. The Protestants were protestors.

• My inbox has been full, it is now empty.
  Someone tried to send a Private Message to me. I was not able to receive it.
  I would prefer that any message to me simply be posted and not sent Privately
  so everyone could comment. I will not answer Private Messages.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Ay yay yay, which word or two is it…come on now… I can never get it totally right with GKC…

I agree with Gurney. Except for a word or two, that is of no consequence, overall.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus

 

[GKC]

Ay yay yay, which word or two is it…come on now… I can never get it totally right with GKC…

It starts with the letter"n".

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I have never seen you face-to-face, Jim. Just had a vague discription of a guy with a beard who walks with a slight limp. But for some reason I’m picturing you as Frank Gorshin wearing a Riddler costume right now!

“Starts with an “n”” (I’m saying it in the Oliver Hardy tone after he repeats something goofy that Stan says) “Starts with an n…hmmmp!”

Perchance might it be “non-Catholic?” LOL

It starts with the letter"n".

GKC