The Earth and Universe Before the Sin of Adam

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Is there a teaching regarding whether the state of the universe and earth today is basically the same as it was before the sin of Adam? (I am not referring to natural geological and astronomical changes of course, I am referring to the general state of the physical world.)
 
Is there a teaching regarding whether the state of the universe and earth today is basically the same as it was before the sin of Adam? (I am not referring to natural geological and astronomical changes of course, I am referring to the general state of the physical world.)
I don’t understand what you mean. What’s the difference between “natural geological” and “physical”?
 
I think the physical universe was uncorrupted somehow. Since the Sin of Adam affected the rest of the ‘material’ universe.
But since angels had sinned first. I think the spiritual universe was corrupted but the material universe was not corrupted yet.

In fact I think the ‘Garden’ Adam was asked to guard was/is a link between the spiritual and material universe.

God bless
 
I think the physical universe was uncorrupted somehow. Since the Sin of Adam affected the rest of the ‘material’ universe.
Yes, this is related to what I was asking about (for those who wondered).

Since Adam was in a perfect relationship with God before his sin, I question if the created universe was connected to heaven. However, if the formation of the earth was a natural consequence of the creation of the universe (as scientific evidence indicates) and if this was before the time of Adam, then I ask how the universe could have been in any different state than now. I ask this because the scientific evidence of the formation of the earth seems to show that the solar system at that time did not have any state that was different from today (in an extraordinary and supernatural way).
 
Yes, this is related to what I was asking about (for those who wondered).

Since Adam was in a perfect relationship with God before his sin, I question if the created universe was connected to heaven. However, if the formation of the earth was a natural consequence of the creation of the universe (as scientific evidence indicates) and if this was before the time of Adam, then I ask how the universe could have been in any different state than now. I ask this because the scientific evidence of the formation of the earth seems to show that the solar system at that time did not have any state that was different from today (in an extraordinary and supernatural way).
I guess this is my dumb day because I still have no clue what you are asking or trying to say.
 
Where was the Garden of Eden? Was it a place similar to heaven since Adam and Eve were in a correct relationship with God before sin?

If the Garden of Eden was a place similar to heaven then I ask whether the Garden of Eden was on earth because there seems to be no evidence that the earth had any location that was special and similar to heaven. That is not to say that I think it is impossible.

I also question if perhaps the Garden of Eden was outside this earth but the Bible seems to indicate that Adam and Eve were on earth.
 
Where was the Garden of Eden? Was it a place similar to heaven since Adam and Eve were in a correct relationship with God before sin?
It was the place between the Tigris and Euphrates.
 
It was the place between the Tigris and Euphrates.
Was the earth different and similar to heaven at that time? If Adam and Eve were in a holy relationship with God, then I wonder if the earth was different. For example, I don’t think there would be danger of animals or need to shelter from bad weather, etc.
 
Yes, this is related to what I was asking about (for those who wondered).

Since Adam was in a perfect relationship with God before his sin, I question if the created universe was connected to heaven. However, if the formation of the earth was a natural consequence of the creation of the universe (as scientific evidence indicates) and if this was before the time of Adam, then I ask how the universe could have been in any different state than now. I ask this because the scientific evidence of the formation of the earth seems to show that the solar system at that time did not have any state that was different from today (in an extraordinary and supernatural way).
I wonder about that too.

Sometimes I think the whole of time-space changed at the fall. And that even though Adam and Eve ‘stepped into’ the fallen world at 4000BC, God created a fallen history for the fallen world. That history includes evolution and dinosaurs etc. So the past that we see evidence of was created (along with all points in space-time) at the instant of Adam and Even being expelled from the garden.

That’s just my theory. Many people think this idea is blasphemous because it would mean that God is a deceiver. But I don’t think so.
 
We accept as a matter of faith that God does not change the past so I don’t readily accept the conjecture that He would change the appearance of the past. Other explanations?
 
I think when the Adam and Eve were given the command, the world was not perfect. It is clear in Genesis. There was already a serpent which was AGAINST God.

It would be interesting to look at it as though Adam and Eve were created and made ‘fighter’. Isn’t a COMMAND for a fight?
Surely enough God told them to ‘guard’ the Garden.

In few words I would say, while Adam and Eve were perfect, the world around them was not perfect.
I think this is not because God created an imperfect universe, but because some angels had sinned already and had screwed things around…were already at war against God.

While Genesis tells us that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, it only give greater details of creation on earth not in heaven. It is only after further revelation that we can conclude that the serpent was under the influence of the evil spirits which had already rebeled against God.

God bless
 
Hi,
I think when the Adam and Eve were given the command, the world was not perfect.
That doesn’t seem to make sense because if death entered the world because of sin, then before sin there would seem be an environment suitable for eternal life.
While Genesis tells us that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, it only give greater details of creation on earth not in heaven.
I think “the heavens” in Genesis refers to the creation of the universe beyond the earth and not heaven where God is.
 
Hi Coder,

Notice that Genesis 1 says:
28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth…
15 And the Lord God took man, and put him into the paradise of pleasure, to dress it, and to keep it. "
I think the word ‘subdue’ indicate that Adam was called to rule and impose something of the rest of creation. Why would he need to ‘subdue’ something if everything si perfect already? I think he reign is about making things perfect or maintaining them perfect. Because it seem that both man and beasts at least seem to have been created at about the same ‘day’.

In the next quote, ’ keep it’ seem to indicate that Eden was a sort of ‘headcarters’…an area that was safe already and from where he was supposed to reign. This seem to make sens to me because soon, the ennemi attacked him there, and got him to be kicked out of there and himself be dominated by the sin.

I am basing myself to the fact that Adam and Eve were ‘immaculate’ when they were created and there around them, a serpent which was defiant already against God had obviously fallen from ‘grace’ if we may say so.

When Scripture say that death entered the world through Adam, you are right, I think things gets complicated here.
This is what I think:

Adam and Eve when they were created where not as ‘material’ as we are today. Remember that our nature today is a fallen nature. So even before Dinosaur’s came and died out, may be the ‘man’ of Genesis 1&2 was there.

Also the rest of creation visible creation nature is a ‘fallen’ nature which is way it is corruptible and is going to destruction.

His Sin causing the corruption of the world could be explained as a guard failing to protect a particular domain he is charged to protect and a virus entering the domain and start the destructive process.

Notice how corruptions seem to have propagated, trees, animals, woman, man → FALL. The Fall had not been in effect until the man sinned. Again this is a picture a battle, it starts around the border and progresses to the capital city, and we say that battle is won when the city has fallen.
This means that if man had not fallen, there were a chance to make things perfect again by man by following the command and thus obtain eternal life.

One mystic suggests that in the Glory Be prayer, the ‘kingdom’ refers to the visible universe and it was given to man. The other two (glory and power) are for the ‘Seven Spirits’ and the angels respectively. So Adam was made King and was charged to protect this kingdom from the fallen angels.

Here is a quote from the CCC. I think man is related to the rest of the material universe in a particular way in a such a way that he infuences them. After all so far all creatures animals, trees, minerals, etc seem to bow before man, we still have to check with the rest of the universe…😃

And we know that great saints and prophets were able to make even wild beasts behave like lambs. So I don’t think it should be hard to imagine a perfect (or perfectable -by man) ‘VISIBLE’ universe before the fall of Man.
364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day. 233.
God bless
 
About the ‘heavens’. Yes, they don’t refer to where God is because, God existed before he created those heavens. The CCC teaches that ‘heavens’ refer to the dwelling place of angels, that is where they were created, or the invisible universe that God created for angels.

God bless
 
I think when the Adam and Eve were given the command, the world was not perfect.
Even if the earth was similar to it’s state now, the care and protection of God could certainly provide for Adam and Eve to have eternal life on earth. God parted the Red Sea! Jesus performed miracles of forgiving, healing, and feeding!

Adam and Eve were intended to master the earth with the help of God so I think there was nothing in this physical world to fear.

Luke 13:34
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling!..”

Note that Jesus refers to gathering as a hen gathers under her wings. I think this was the care that Adam and Eve had.
 
However, even if the earth was similar to it’s state now, the care and protection of God could certainly provide for Adam and Eve to have eternal life on earth. God parted the Red Sea! Jesus performed miracles of forgiving, healing, and feeding!

Adam and Eve were intended to master the earth with the help of God so I think there was nothing in this physical world to fear.

.
Yes, exactly. 🙂
 
Through Man the end of all the earth was God. Man embodies both the spiritual and material creation. Creation in it’s various and finite forms manifest the infinite perfections of God. When Man chose to disconnect the bond shared with God the various and individual created perfections didn’t seize being perfect but with man experience the broken bond with God in that the sin of Man subjeced the earth to the law of death. Every creation that found it’s end in God through Man became subject to the law of death in that it’s intended end is disconnected from God.
 
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