The earth is only 6000 years old (II)

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Of course they are missing. If we had found them then they wouldn’t be “missing links” any more they would be “found links” wouldn’t they. 🙂

rossum
But don’t forget the “found links” – thousands of them antedating Adam and Eve.
 
Uh Oh - more bad news for StA.

NSF Board Draws Flak for Dropping Evolution From Indicators

Well now the NCSE has a problem with this.

Joshua Rosenau of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE) said “Discussing American science literacy without mentioning evolution is intellectual malpractice … It downplays the controversy.”

Controversy? DId he say controversy? All this time I have heard over and over again that there is no controversy.

I am now intelligent! I feel so good… 👍
 
You… you mean I don’t have to move to a big city to be intelligent?

God bless,
Ed 🙂

Choose Jesus.
 
Uh Oh - more bad news for StA.

NSF Board Draws Flak for Dropping Evolution From Indicators

Well now the NCSE has a problem with this.

Joshua Rosenau of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE) said “Discussing American science literacy without mentioning evolution is intellectual malpractice … It downplays the controversy.”

Controversy? DId he say controversy? All this time I have heard over and over again that there is no controversy.

I am now intelligent! I feel so good… 👍
Thanks Buffalo for posting this interesting piece of news. I wonder if it’ll catch on at Catholic Universities? You know like we had better concentrate on teaching science.

I also wonder if they have learned something that they have not told the NCSE - like maybe they tested dinosaur bones and those “missing Links” for C-14? 😉
 
Uh Oh - more bad news for StA.

NSF Board Draws Flak for Dropping Evolution From Indicators

Well now the NCSE has a problem with this.

Joshua Rosenau of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE) said “Discussing American science literacy without mentioning evolution is intellectual malpractice … It downplays the controversy.”

Controversy? DId he say controversy? All this time I have heard over and over again that there is no controversy.

I am now intelligent! I feel so good… 👍
 
Uh Oh - more bad news for StA. NSF Board Draws Flak for Dropping Evolution From Indicators
Well now the NCSE has a problem with this.
Buffalo, you asked about presenting ideas like yours at a conference as a way of getting them out there for serious academic discussion. I was informed last night that my paper proposal has been accepted by the American Scientific Affiliation for their July conference at the Catholic University in Washington, D.C.

It can be done. Draw up a proposal next January for the discussion if IDvolution at the 2011 meeting. It’s a great group of prayerful, sympathetic scholars. Go for it!

StAnastasia
 
Buffalo, you asked about presenting ideas like yours at a conference as a way of getting them out there for serious academic discussion. I was informed last night that my paper proposal has been accepted by the American Scientific Affiliation for their July conference at the Catholic University in Washington, D.C.

It can be done. Draw up a proposal next January for the discussion if IDvolution at the 2011 meeting. It’s a great group of prayerful, sympathetic scholars. Go for it!

StAnastasia
Sounds good.

What is the process? How do you make application?
 
The American Heritage College Dictionary definitions for pristine are what the term signifies to me.
My Webster New World Dictionary reads: …“fresh and untouched like the ***pristine ***look of new fallen snow”

Or like St. Lawrence of Brindisi, church father might describe of the newly created [simul] Adam and Eve.

OR like scientists who have described as "pristine" the fossil human and dinosaur footprints discovered under tons of cretaceous rock and protected for 1000’s of years by an intermediate layer of hard pan clay. ianjuby.org/delk/ 🙂
 
Sounds good. What is the process? How do you make application?
Buffalo, you go to the American Scientific Affiliation’s website, follow the link to the annual conference, and find the link to the “Call for Abstracts”: asa3.org/ASA/meetings/dc2010/DC_callforpapers.pdf. Next year’s will appear sometime in late autumn.

I missed last year’s conference at Baylor in Texas, because I was in Europe, but 2008’s conference at George Fox University in Oregon was great. There was an amazing paper on the theme of intersexed children – “Neither male nor female he created them.” There was also an entire day’s symposium on intelligent design. I’m sure you would find much of the conference intriguing. Oh, while you don’t have to be a member to submit a proposal, if your paper is accepted you will have to pay for a one-year membership.

I’m excited that the ASA is meeting at Catholic University this year, both because it shows an ecumenical openness on the part of a mostly Protestant membership, and because it will allow my family and me to attend High Mass at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception!

Best wishes,
StAnastasia
 
The Bible tells us that Adam and Eve had bodily immortality. After the Fall, sin and death came into the world. All of Creation became degraded.
Here’s a less-than-friendly approach to the question:
psychologytoday.com/blog/breakfast-socrates/201003/creationism-mental-illness

"Hence creationism, the theory/superstition that, contrary to massive scientific evidence, the world began exactly as described in the Book of Genesis. Instead of deriving from millions of years of patient evolution, Adam and Eve popped out, fully formed, like characters from a Swiss cuckoo clock. … It’s a myth, but like many myths it serves a psychological purpose which is to provide a storybook sense of simple origins, which allays people’s fears. Those who believe this myth to be the truth are in a state of denial.

Along with denial, two other factors connect creationism with mental illness. The first is psychosis, which is an extension of denial. If psychosis is marked by the discrepancy between one’s personal view of the world and the consensual view, creationism holds onto the personal view at all costs, refusing to accept what is abundantly clear. True, if creationism became the majority view, its psychotic character might be mitigated. Except that this majority view would have no more valence than the belief so widely held about the relationship between the sun and the earth before Copernicus proved how the latter orbits the former, and not vice versa.

Finally, creationism shares with autism an alleged lack of ability for irony. Creationists take the bible story as literally true, unable to recognize that it might be working on those other, mythic levels.
 
The Bible tells us that Adam and Eve had bodily immortality. After the Fall, sin and death came into the world. All of Creation became degraded.
What is the authoritative source for your statement, “All of Creation became degraded”?
 
Here’s a less-than-friendly approach to the question:
psychologytoday.com/blog/breakfast-socrates/201003/creationism-mental-illness

"Hence creationism, the theory/superstition that, contrary to massive scientific evidence, the world began exactly as described in the Book of Genesis. Instead of deriving from millions of years of patient evolution, Adam and Eve popped out, fully formed, like characters from a Swiss cuckoo clock. … It’s a myth, but like many myths it serves a psychological purpose which is to provide a storybook sense of simple origins, which allays people’s fears. Those who believe this myth to be the truth are in a state of denial.
I think Robert Smith completely misunderstands what “myth” means and what functions it serves. A cosmogony does not serve “to provide a storybook sense of simple origins, which allays people’s fears.” Rather, it situates the believing community in an orderly universe, described nicely by Mircea Eliade in The Sacred and the Profane.

A interesting question is whether an atheist could have a cosmogony, or whether non-theism by definition precludes cosmogony.

StAnastasia
 
'Fraid you’re wrong, Philipp. The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
I was aware of the phenomenon noted in the link I provided sometime ago like in
www.dinosaurc14ages.com but was unaware of a good explanation provided by an AIG scientist until I performed a search. Since StA continues to claim 4.5 billion years as a fact, I choose to rebut with the following explanation from answersingenesis.org/tj/v…celeration.asp [read full text for details]

***A
Now, let us visualize the following situation at the beginning of Creation Week. As God creates the atoms which will subsequently be assembled into all of the matter that will constitute all of the objects in the physical universe, He first creates them all in a completely ionised state (i.e. nuclei alone). This plasma persists for several hours on the First Day, during which time bb decay freely takes place under the bare-nucleus conditions of all of the atoms. This process, though, is insufficient by itself to generate billions of years’ worth of excess 187Os.7 However, if there were a simultaneous weakening of the presently-existing nuclear force, as suggested by Humphreys,8 the Re-Os ‘clock’ would be accelerated another few orders of magnitude. Not only the Re-Os clock, but probably many other radioactive (and even stable) nuclides would experience appreciable amounts of bb decay under the bare-nucleus conditions of the plasma. We note that the potential or actual bb decay gives a large ‘head start’ to extreme accelerations of radioactive decay. Thus the postulated weakening of the nuclear force7 may need to be far less drastic than originally supposed (when assumed to be acting upon non-ionized atoms) to generate billions of years’ worth of decay products in several hours.

It turns out that bb decay is not the only mechanism by which some ostensibly long-age ‘clocks’ can experience major accelerations in radioactive decay rate. Consider the lutetium-hafnium (176Lu-176Hf) system, which is relatively new, and which is infrequently used by uniformitarian geologists to supposedly date rocks.9 At very high temperatures, part of the 176Lu decay to 176Hf bypasses the conventional slow route, and goes into an isomeric state which has a half-life of only 3.68 hours.10 In other words, part of the 176Lu decay experiences an alternative decay mode to 176Hf which represents, in effect, a shortcut that is 14 orders of magnitude faster than the conventional 176Lu decay (t½ = 41 Ga). Moreover, in this particular instance, no changes in the nuclear force are necessary. Extreme temperatures suffice, and the greater they are, the shorter the effective half life of 176Lu decay to 176Hf. In terms of specifics, at temperatures below about 200 million K, t½ remains unperturbed at about 41 Ga. But, over the interval of 200 to 300 MK, the effective t½ drops precipitously (by nearly 10 orders of magnitude), then begins to level off asymptotically at still higher temperatures. Thus, at 600 MK, the effective t½ of 176Lu is only about 8 days!11 This is short enough that if, as discussed earlier, all of the atoms in the universe had been created in a very hot state—which just means very high kinetic energies—(and maintained that way for several hours on the First Day), all the excess 176Hf in existence would have been generated within that short period.

The rapidly-accumulated products of the accelerated radioactive decay subsequently became part of every object in the created universe, albeit at differing concentrations. During the remainder of the Creation Week, as God cooled and organized the plasma into solid celestial objects, such as planets, the excess radiogenic isotopes became partitioned into the relevant mineral phases, perhaps according to accelerated geochemical processes. The modern uniformitarian geologist misreads this deployment of the radiogenic isotopes as isochrons indicative of up to billions of years to time. This span of time never happened.

Conclusion:
This exciting demonstration that isotopic ‘clocks’ can be accelerated at least a billion-fold is good news to creationist scholars. It raises fundamental questions about the temporal stability of isotopic ‘clocks’. What else have we failed to consider in terms of the physics of radioactive decay? The myth of the virtual invincibility of radioactive decay to external forces has been decisively shattered, and the door to further research has now been swung wide open.***

COMMENT: I would add that now perhaps we can see why the most reliable of dating methods give concordant C-14 ages in the Geologic Column by direct C-14 dating of the fossils such as for dinosaur bone collagen, calcium carbonate fraction of dinosaur bone bioapatite and total organics. The concordant long ages of 65 M years reported by Dalrymple are too old by many orders of magnetude. Couple C-14 dating with the ongoing paleohydraulic lab and field sedimentology studies and you have good scientific reasons to believe Christ and the church fathers and iln particular the fourth Lataran Council (creation “at once” (simul). 👍
 
A interesting question is whether an atheist could have a cosmogony, or whether non-theism by definition precludes cosmogony.

StAnastasia
This is an interesting question in philosophy, though perhaps with a slightly different perspective…

On what grounds does the philosophical naturalist assert that there is in fact a universe, defined as the totality of consistently interacting things, when he cannot get outside of the universe to view it and thereby confirm its existence on a strictly scientific level or by the means science requires for verification.
 
I was aware of the phenomenon noted in the link I provided sometime ago like in
www.dinosaurc14ages.com but was unaware of a good explanation provided by an AIG scientist until I performed a search. Since StA continues to claim 4.5 billion years as a fact, I choose to rebut with the following explanation from answersingenesis.org/tj/v…celeration.asp [read full text for details]

***A
Now, let us visualize the following situation at the beginning of Creation Week. As God creates the atoms which will subsequently be assembled into all of the matter that will constitute all of the objects in the physical universe, He first creates them all in a completely ionised state (i.e. nuclei alone). This plasma persists for several hours on the First Day, during which time bb decay freely takes place under the bare-nucleus conditions of all of the atoms. This process, though, is insufficient by itself to generate billions of years’ worth of excess 187Os.7 However, if there were a simultaneous weakening of the presently-existing nuclear force, as suggested by Humphreys,8 the Re-Os ‘clock’ would be accelerated another few orders of magnitude. Not only the Re-Os clock, but probably many other radioactive (and even stable) nuclides would experience appreciable amounts of bb decay under the bare-nucleus conditions of the plasma. We note that the potential or actual bb decay gives a large ‘head start’ to extreme accelerations of radioactive decay. Thus the postulated weakening of the nuclear force7 may need to be far less drastic than originally supposed (when assumed to be acting upon non-ionized atoms) to generate billions of years’ worth of decay products in several hours.

It turns out that bb decay is not the only mechanism by which some ostensibly long-age ‘clocks’ can experience major accelerations in radioactive decay rate. Consider the lutetium-hafnium (176Lu-176Hf) system, which is relatively new, and which is infrequently used by uniformitarian geologists to supposedly date rocks.9 At very high temperatures, part of the 176Lu decay to 176Hf bypasses the conventional slow route, and goes into an isomeric state which has a half-life of only 3.68 hours.10 In other words, part of the 176Lu decay experiences an alternative decay mode to 176Hf which represents, in effect, a shortcut that is 14 orders of magnitude faster than the conventional 176Lu decay (t½ = 41 Ga). Moreover, in this particular instance, no changes in the nuclear force are necessary. Extreme temperatures suffice, and the greater they are, the shorter the effective half life of 176Lu decay to 176Hf. In terms of specifics, at temperatures below about 200 million K, t½ remains unperturbed at about 41 Ga. But, over the interval of 200 to 300 MK, the effective t½ drops precipitously (by nearly 10 orders of magnitude), then begins to level off asymptotically at still higher temperatures. Thus, at 600 MK, the effective t½ of 176Lu is only about 8 days!11 This is short enough that if, as discussed earlier, all of the atoms in the universe had been created in a very hot state—which just means very high kinetic energies—(and maintained that way for several hours on the First Day), all the excess 176Hf in existence would have been generated within that short period.

The rapidly-accumulated products of the accelerated radioactive decay subsequently became part of every object in the created universe, albeit at differing concentrations. During the remainder of the Creation Week, as God cooled and organized the plasma into solid celestial objects, such as planets, the excess radiogenic isotopes became partitioned into the relevant mineral phases, perhaps according to accelerated geochemical processes. The modern uniformitarian geologist misreads this deployment of the radiogenic isotopes as isochrons indicative of up to billions of years to time. This span of time never happened.

Conclusion:
This exciting demonstration that isotopic ‘clocks’ can be accelerated at least a billion-fold is good news to creationist scholars. It raises fundamental questions about the temporal stability of isotopic ‘clocks’. What else have we failed to consider in terms of the physics of radioactive decay? The myth of the virtual invincibility of radioactive decay to external forces has been decisively shattered, and the door to further research has now been swung wide open.***

COMMENT: I would add that now perhaps we can see why the most reliable of dating methods give concordant C-14 ages in the Geologic Column by direct C-14 dating of the fossils such as for dinosaur bone collagen, calcium carbonate fraction of dinosaur bone bioapatite and total organics. The concordant long ages of 65 M years reported by Dalrymple are too old by many orders of magnetude. Couple C-14 dating with the ongoing paleohydraulic lab and field sedimentology studies and you have good scientific reasons to believe Christ and the church fathers and iln particular the fourth Lataran Council (creation “at once” (simul). 👍
:yawn:

There can be no proof, no matter what efforts you make, for that which just isn’t so, i.e. fundamentalist creationism. Just imagine how usefully and meaningfully you could be spending your limited time on earth if you were not so deeply embedded in creationist ideology.

Perhaps I should start a de-programming thread for creationists, much on the order of the de-programming forums on the WWW for Mormons striving to free themselves from a life-time of Mormon indoctrination.
 
Here’s a less-than-friendly approach to the question:
psychologytoday.com/blog/breakfast-socrates/201003/creationism-mental-illness

"Hence creationism, the theory/superstition that, contrary to massive scientific evidence, the world began exactly as described in the Book of Genesis. Instead of deriving from millions of years of patient evolution, Adam and Eve popped out, fully formed, like characters from a Swiss cuckoo clock. … It’s a myth, but like many myths it serves a psychological purpose which is to provide a storybook sense of simple origins, which allays people’s fears. Those who believe this myth to be the truth are in a state of denial.

Along with denial, two other factors connect creationism with mental illness. The first is psychosis, which is an extension of denial. If psychosis is marked by the discrepancy between one’s personal view of the world and the consensual view, creationism holds onto the personal view at all costs, refusing to accept what is abundantly clear. True, if creationism became the majority view, its psychotic character might be mitigated. Except that this majority view would have no more valence than the belief so widely held about the relationship between the sun and the earth before Copernicus proved how the latter orbits the former, and not vice versa.

Finally, creationism shares with autism an alleged lack of ability for irony. Creationists take the bible story as literally true, unable to recognize that it might be working on those other, mythic levels.
UHM! Me thinks that the Mithras religion of ancient Rome, Egypt etc and its modern day practioneers, evolutionists of all stripes, fits the above “less than friendly appraisal.”😛
Some of us on this thread are just agreeing with our church fathers by showing that good scientific research, observations and theories support those who lived by faith alone many centuries ago. :thumbsup:Now you dare to provide an article that implies a form of mental illness? Well I guess we shall find out when we meet our creator, won’t we. 🙂
 
This is an interesting question in philosophy, though perhaps with a slightly different perspective…

On what grounds does the philosophical naturalist assert that there is in fact a universe, defined as the totality of consistently interacting things, when he cannot get outside of the universe to view it and thereby confirm its existence on a strictly scientific level or by the means science requires for verification.
Excellent point, although I suppose she could limit her claim to the universe is the collection of things we can see. I’ve always thought the question of parallel universes is risible for this very reason. I suppose if you renamed what we sees something other than “the universe” you could without contradiction postulate more than one of them, just as you can have more than one finite galaxy.
 
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