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latin_rite
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Nope i do not. And neither do i take my computer with me, when i line up to be served at the deli.
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rossum
Guest
1 Evolution is a suspended topic.
2 Punctuated equilibrium is indeed irregular gradualism.
rossum
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itinerant1
Guest
For the sake of clarification:
First, the four-element theory pre-dates Aristotle. It also pre-dates the pre-Socratic philosophers. Aristotle merely inherited that theory.
Second, the graphic is an analogy. It takes the creationist “logic” or attitude toward evolution science, and the other sciences, and applies it to the periodic table of elements.
Creationists, according to the analogy, would complain about every change in the periodic table and the fact that there is some disagreement among scientists. Creationists would then call for teaching an alternative theory in the schools, and promote legal action to convince the state of their position. The creationist adoption of the ancient theory of matter analogically highlights the irrationality of their position as well as their retrograde attitude (intellectual devolution) toward the natural sciences.
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grannymh
Guest
From my point of view, I would like to know the proposed thesis or purpose for “direct carbon dating of the fossils.” I am sure that in your past posts, you have given many reasons for direct carbon dating. Yet, my memory is failing me.Date the fossils and the rocks containing carbon and NOT rely on the magma as the final arbiter of age. Again I offer a proposition with some options:
(1) Locate foundations or persons of means who are willing to see a study comparing direct carbon dating of the fossils with dating magma adjacent, above or below the fossils.
(2) There are many scientists in the field digging for dinosaurs in the summer months. There are hundreds of museums world-wide with 1000’s of dinosaur bones sitting on skids in their storage facilites; I’ve seen them. Thus, even without funding for a major project a Catholic Answers team could sign a petition challenging field and museums to request that funds be solicited from the foundations already supporting their field work and divert some for both direct dating of dinosaur and human-like bones and nearby lava beds.
(3) If CA team is ignored then we could try and find Catholics of means, maybe even the PAS to support such a project if the museums ignore such a request. Maybe even Cardinal Schonborune might be willing to cough up a few thousand Euros with the possibility that he might confound the fundamentalist Usherites.
(4) Instead of name calling lets get to work and do some fossil hunting and lab work. Afterall we are looking for Catholic Answers: Right? There are also almost 200,000 folks on CA. maybe a little nudge by our monitors might get such a project started. What say ye all?I got to hit the sack so you West Coast folks can carry on. St Anthony of Padua help us find a solution to these endless discussions.
In my humble opinion, curiosity is a great motivating reason.Nonetheless, I do have a personal agenda which is the reality of two sole parents of the human species. Because I believe in the unity of creation, all of the natural sciences and the various theories would contribute to the final demonstration of the real possibility of Adam and Eve. How can more information on fossils yield knowledge about our first parents? There are some ideas about this roaming between my ears…but nothing that I can put on paper.
Blessings,
granny
Spring is a sign of faith in the future.
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larkin31
Guest
Are you here to proselytize? Are you seeking religious converts?
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larkin31
Guest
Just make sure to publish your findings with names and methods.Date the fossils and the rocks containing carbon and NOT rely on the magma as the final arbiter of age. Again I offer a proposition with some options:
(1) Locate foundations or persons of means who are willing to see a study comparing direct carbon dating of the fossils with dating magma adjacent, above or below the fossils.
(2) There are many scientists in the field digging for dinosaurs in the summer months. There are hundreds of museums world-wide with 1000’s of dinosaur bones sitting on skids in their storage facilites; I’ve seen them. Thus, even without funding for a major project a Catholic Answers team could sign a petition challenging field and museums to request that funds be solicited from the foundations already supporting their field work and divert some for both direct dating of dinosaur and human-like bones and nearby lava beds.
(3) If CA team is ignored then we could try and find Catholics of means, maybe even the PAS to support such a project if the museums ignore such a request. Maybe even Cardinal Schonborune might be willing to cough up a few thousand Euros with the possibility that he might confound the fundamentalist Usherites.
(4) Instead of name calling lets get to work and do some fossil hunting and lab work. Afterall we are looking for Catholic Answers: Right? There are also almost 200,000 folks on CA. maybe a little nudge by our monitors might get such a project started. What say ye all?
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Philipp
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I would hope that they would so publish. That’s the intent of any such research. But perhaps you are unaware on how science should really work. When there are challenges to the conventional paradigm then scientists must check out the anomalies, Right?
Uhm! But perhaps you don’t bother reading posts other than your own. So I shall repeat the reference again and the web site where you can obtain the references, names etc for the anomalies. www.dinosaurc14ages.com for the web site for details. I can lead you to water but it’s up to you to drink.
There was a paper on RC dating of dinosaur bone collagen, the Calcium carbonate fraction of dinosaur bones and total organics all giving concordant radiocarbon ages for two dinosaur femur bones, one from a Triceratops and one from an Hadrosaur.
The paper was published in a book by the National Research Council of Italy entitled, “Evolutionism, the Decline of an Hypothesis”. It was 22 pages with 80 some reference citations plus methods and photos of the actual dinosaur excavations along with methods and the geology of the area and precise locations and the three authors. Another paper at Pius V University listed only the “presenter.” There were also papers on sedimentology, physics, genetics philosophy and one questioning the validity of radiometric dating all of which suggest the Impossibilty of descent from a common ancestor. Such challenges from many scientific fields requires more than just name calling from the peanut gallery and scientists supporting the current paradigm.
Since both sides on this thread appear to be so knowledgable about the origins question and can challenge each other’s claims the only logical thing to do is to perform lab experiments with, say the fossils. Why not challenge main stream scientists to make a comparitive study using both methods of chronology; that’s the gist of my proposition.
The foundations or individual supplying the funds would have to ride herd on researchers to make sure they publish and perform the research correctly. BUT are you folks up to even making the challenge or do you want to continue to bloviate at each other incessently?
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larkin31
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I have read about ten of the pages on this site.
Again, no names are given, no research methods. This is not what scientific “publishing” and vetting is about.
The “water” you are presenting here is a suspiciously muddy little puddle. Who wants to drink from that?
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larkin31
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I already commented on this: the NRC itself said that they did not share the positions of the authors of that paper. I quoted the comment for all here to see.
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pismopal
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If God is outside of “time” and I believe that He is…6000 or 6 trillion years would make no difference. The word of God is a guide to salvation and not a history or anthropology text book.
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buffalo
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What? I have only been to this site the first time right now to see for myself. The second page I looked at had tons of references.
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buffalo
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And what are the limits of this irregularity?
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Caritasregat
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Skeptic has a good point. Catholics do have number one, if you’re Catholic…Catholics already have number one.
That’s why we need to back our tenets up with reason. When looking for proof, revelation alone won’t prove anything.
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grannymh
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Seems to me, in the days before color TV, reason meant using one’s intellect. However, it seems to me that posters keep asking for material/physical evidence.
So, what do you mean by proof? Or do you mean interpretation of revelation?
Blessings,
:snowing:
Our March snow storm in the midst of Spring is a reminder of life.
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larkin31
Guest
Not “references,” but AUTHORS and THEIR research methods. The site claims that THEY THEMSELVES have done dating and research. They give results in summary form, but no methodology and do not sign their results with any names or credentials. This is no regular form of submission of scientific research.
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buffalo
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Revelation is a “top” truth if you will. All the rest of truth is a derivative.
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Caritasregat
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How? Why would God make the universe to look as if it had been in existence for several billion years? Itinerate1 had a good point. If we can’t use our reason to get to the truth (or even near to the truth) about the universe, then it is useless to argue, and we arrive at the issue which Skeptic pointed out.
The “trickster” concept which you want to dismiss without proof is this:
- God made rocks with fossils in them 6000 years ago.
- The fossils look as if they’ve been there for millions of years.
- The presence of fossils is a deception to human reason
- God has placed this deception (for no other apparent reason).
- Deception is contrary to God’s goodness.
Therefore God contradicts himself
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buffalo
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Consider this: If one is walking on the beach and sees left footprints as far as one can see should he conclude a deceiver was at work?
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Caritasregat
Guest
We need to be able to decide which revelation to believe. How do we get there w/o a tad bit of reason?
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Caritasregat
Guest
Please explain.
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