The earth is only 6000 years old (II)

[Philipp]

I understand.

Thing is, I don’t share that view. Yours, and the thousands of other superstitious belief systems, are on the same par with Santa Claus as far as I’m concerned. Sorry to be so blunt, but that’s the way I feel about it. I’m being honest, not disrespectful.

With descent from a common ancestor [evolution] we are back to that “old time religion of Rome and the rock of ages” - the Mithras bunch who sit around a statue of Darwin this time talking about his obsolete hypothesis. The poor suckers who fell for that mythology just don’t get it. The years required for it all to happen just don’t exist.

CERN Courier
Jun 8, 2009

Ultrasonic cavitation of water speeds up thorium decay

It is a common belief that radioactive decay rates are unchanged by external conditions, despite many examples of small shifts (particularly involving external pressure and K-capture decays) being well documented and understood. However, Fabio Cardone of the Institute per lo Studio dei Materiali Nanostrutturati in Rome and colleagues have shown a dramatic increase – by a factor of 10,000 – in the decay rate of thorium-228 in water as a result of ultrasonic cavitation. Exactly what the physics is and whether or not this sort of effect can be scaled up into a technology for nuclear waste treatment remain open issues.

Further reading

F Cardone, R Mignani and A Petrucci 2009 Phys. Lett. A 373 1956.

Yep and don’t forget those dinosaurs. They were around only a few 1000 years ago.

These are facts of laboratory testing NOT on evo talk shows.

 

[gentle_atheist]

Besides, it makes God out to be trickster who fools countless scientists into thinking the world has been around for billions of years.

But your position makes God out to be a trickster who has fooled countless Christians and Jews into thinking that the world was created in six days just a few thousand years ago.

 

[grannymh]

I understand.

Thing is, I don’t share that view. Yours, and the thousands of other superstitious belief systems, are on the same par with Santa Claus as far as I’m concerned. Sorry to be so blunt, but that’s the way I feel about it. I’m being honest, not disrespectful.

My apology. I need to expand my statement.

There is one earth.
There is one God.
There is one salvation for all.
Divine Revelation is universal.
It is the interpretation which becomes individual.

Blessings,
granny

As nature benefits all, all are created by God.

 

[grannymh]

The Hindus invented zero so they should have number 0 which puts them before number one. And weren’t the Jews there before any of the Christians?

rossum

My apology. I need to expand my statement.

There is one earth.
There is one God.
There is one salvation for all.
Divine Revelation is universal.
It is the interpretation which becomes individual.

Blessings,
granny

Nature exists because of the Creator.

 

[grannymh]

Why would God do that? There is no need for that hypothesis.

Besides, it makes God out to be trickster who fools countless scientists into thinking the world has been around for billions of years.

Trickster is an illogical conclusion. The earth is the earth created by God with clear purpose. “God created everything for man, but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to Him:” Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraph 358.

Do the tools of created humanity surpass God? Perhaps we need to reevaluate the tools in order to seek knowledge which is ultimately beyond us.

Blessings,
granny

Please use this handy link for the *Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition *www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[rossum]

CERN Courier
Jun 8, 2009

Ultrasonic cavitation of water speeds up thorium decay

It is a common belief that radioactive decay rates are unchanged by external conditions, despite many examples of small shifts (particularly involving external pressure and K-capture decays) being well documented and understood. However, Fabio Cardone of the Institute per lo Studio dei Materiali Nanostrutturati in Rome and colleagues have shown a dramatic increase – by a factor of 10,000 – in the decay rate of thorium-228 in water as a result of ultrasonic cavitation. Exactly what the physics is and whether or not this sort of effect can be scaled up into a technology for nuclear waste treatment remain open issues.

Further reading

F Cardone, R Mignani and A Petrucci 2009 Phys. Lett. A 373 1956.

The half-life of Thorium-228 is two years. That is nowhere near enough time to reduce a billion year timescale to thousands of years. Do you have similar results for one of the long lived isotopes?

You may also want to read a result that shows very well your case that secular scientists are fallible and prone to errors:We show that cavitation of a solution of thorium-228 in water does not induce its transformation at a faster rate than the natural radioactive decay. We measured the activity of a thorium-228 solution in water before, and after, it was subjected to a cavitation at 44 kHz and 250 W for 90 min in order to observe any change in the thorium half-life. The results were compared to the original activity of the sample and we observed no change. Our results and conclusions conflict with those in a recent paper by F. Cardone et al. (Emphasis added)

Source: Measurement of the thorium-228 activity in solutions cavitated by ultrasonic sound (2009).
That result by Cardone et al you are so fond of quoting was probably an error.

Yep and don’t forget those dinosaurs. They were around only a few 1000 years ago.

I saw one outside my window today. It was called a pigeon.

rossum

 

[grannymh]

Truth wins out and Catholicism whoops astrology in every match. I can whoop your Santa Claus theory too, but let’s stick to the topic of the thread and thrash “creationism” and the 6, 000 year old earth superstition.

Pardon me. Before thrashing the very broad category of “creationism”, one should respectfully recognize that not all of it is trash. The Catholic Church has specific doctrines related to the creation of God’s world and its inhabitants. How do you explain those without believing that creation exists?

Before thrashing any superstition, even those surrounding God as non-existent, one should recognize that superstitions can arise from created humanity’s deep desire to know their Creator.

Divine Revelation not only trumps but it is universal. It is the interpretation which becomes individual and thus subject to misinterpretation. In the case of superstition, the misinterpretation can not only be severe but can be dangerous.

It is a stretch to consider the concept of a young earth superstition because it comes from a belief in the real God. Are the concepts of the age of the earth part of the scientific realm or part of the Catholic Deposit of Faith? The earth and its inhabitants are created by God is a doctrine. The natural science nitty-gritty of how can be debated. Being wrong about science is not a sin against the Catholic Faith though it may be considered sinful by other religious groups.

Note: For the record, I choose not to debate the age of the earth. Nonetheless, I find the scientific findings on both sides of this debate to be beneficial to the important issue of the real, two sole parents of the human species, Adam and Eve. Perhaps soon, we can find the “age” or time they were created by God.

Blessings,
granny

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

 

[grannymh]

Yep and don’t forget those dinosaurs. They were around only a few 1000 years ago.

I saw one outside my window today. It was called a pigeon.

rossum

For the record: I have never lost the “five-year-old love” of dinosaurs. I will now smile at pigeons which will be extremely difficult since I often travel to the big city.

Blessings,
granny

Note to self: Remember that dinosaurs and pigeons share the same Creator, regardless.

 

[Dokimas]

I’m glad you acknowledge that!

All life on earth is genetically related to some degree. But, whenever someone points out that we’re closely related to chimps, genetically, oh boy! Some people get pissed at the thought. How about you? Are you okay with the fact that we’re over 97% genetically related to chimps, or, does that idea upset you? Be honest.

(emphasis mine)

That’s just incredulity on your part.

tasc-creationscience.org/other/plaisted/www.cs.unc.edu/_plaisted/ce/apes.html​

Honestly, if you want to lower your humanness by thinking you are related to a chimp, that’s up to you.​

Instead of looking at the amazing complexity of DNA and drawing a highly logical conclusion that DNA could NOT arise by mere chance, evolution lowers the mentality of humans. Just goes to prove that IQ, while an interesting stat, doesn’t mean those with a high IQ understands what a child can understand by marveling at the creation – The Creator is awesome.

 

[Dokimas]

For the record: I have never lost the “five-year-old love” of dinosaurs. I will now smile at pigeons which will be extremely difficult since I often travel to the big city.

Blessings,
granny

Note to self: Remember that dinosaurs and pigeons share the same Creator, regardless.

 

[Dokimas]

Truth wins out and Catholicism whoops astrology in every match. I can whoop your Santa Claus theory too, but let’s stick to the topic of the thread and thrash “creationism” and the 6, 000 year old earth superstition.

A lie makes for interesting bed buddies.

 

[Dokimas]

Why would God do that? There is no need for that hypothesis.

Besides, it makes God out to be trickster who fools countless scientists into thinking the world has been around for billions of years.

Let see, if God were to create a plant what would be necessary? Water, CO2, nitrogen, O2, sunlight, etc and a place to grow in. Is God being a trickster if I look at soil and think it must have taken millions of yrs to form?​

If we are tricked, could it be because we allow ourselves to be tricked starting with a false presupposition?​

I come home for lunch with a nice bunch of flowers for my wife. She puts them in a vase on the dining room table. I go back to work. Our children come home from school and see the flowers. “Mom, those are beautiful flowers you bought for the family.” Mom answers, “I didn’t buy them, Dad did.” “But Dad was at work and he never comes home til night time. If he bought them, he would be tricking us, so of course we believe you did it, Mom.”​

Tricking implies intent. Being tricked implies wrong presuppositions.

 

[latin_rite]

The Hindus invented zero so they should have number 0 which puts them before number one. And weren’t the Jews there before any of the Christians?

rossum

Isn’t o nothing? None says please take ticket number 0?
The only time 0 becomes anything is when it comes after 1 etc. So really. If you have ticket 0 you have have to come after ticket number 1. I don’t know what the holder of ticket number 2 will think of this. But as i also hold ticket #1. I don’t really care.

 

[larkin31]

Well, what if God created the earth in an advanced state? That is, he created the Earth as though it had existed physically for a long time…

No Biblical indication of this. A very odd idea.

 

[larkin31]

Trickster is an illogical conclusion. The earth is the earth created by God with clear purpose. “God created everything for man, but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to Him:” Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraph 358.

Do the tools of created humanity surpass God? Perhaps we need to reevaluate the tools in order to seek knowledge which is ultimately beyond us.

I wouldn’t know, but our tools are way beyond those of the writers of Genesis.

 

[rossum]

Honestly, if you want to lower your humanness by thinking you are related to a chimp, that’s up to you.

On the contrary, I increase my humanness by increasing the humanness of our cousins the Chimps.

I do not level humans down towards Chimps, I level Chimps up towards humans. THere are two ways the gap can be narrowed.

rossum

 

[rossum]

Isn’t o nothing? None says please take ticket number 0?
The only time 0 becomes anything is when it comes after 1 etc. So really. If you have ticket 0 you have have to come after ticket number 1. I don’t know what the holder of ticket number 2 will think of this. But as i also hold ticket #1. I don’t really care.

You don’t program in C or any of the C-descended languages (C++, Java, C# etc.) do you.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

I’m glad you acknowledge that!

All life on earth is genetically related to some degree. But, whenever someone points out that we’re closely related to chimps, genetically, oh boy! Some people get pissed at the thought. How about you? Are you okay with the fact that we’re over 97% genetically related to chimps, or, does that idea upset you? Be honest.

(emphasis mine)

That’s just incredulity on your part.

We are not - current findings put it at around 79%.

 

[buffalo]

In this case it does. As we live our lives our immune systems become more complex as they encounter new pathogens and gain the ability to recognise them when encountered a second time. That recognition develops after conception and is stored in new cellular DNA.

Our DNA can ‘learn’ from its environment so it can deal with the common pathogens it encounters. The locals do not get “Montezuma’s Revenge” but the tourists do, because the locals have developed the right DNA in their immune systems to deal with those local pathogens.

Complexity is increased for every new pathogen our immune system recognises.

rossum

Not really - the recognition is stored. This allows the system to react early next time and eradicate the pathogen at an early stage.

 

[buffalo]

Why would God do that? There is no need for that hypothesis.

Besides, it makes God out to be trickster who fools countless scientists into thinking the world has been around for billions of years.

The trickster argument is bogus.