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grannymh
Guest
Plus those, both outside and within the Catholic Church, who chose to denial of certain Catholic doctrines. For example, those who reduce Catholic theology to natural science.
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StAnastasia
Guest
I don’t know any in that latter group.Plus those, within and without the Catholic Church who choose to deny certain Catholic doctrines. For example, those who reduce Catholic theology to natural science.
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grannymh
Guest
Perhaps I am more aware of what is actually happening in the real world beyond my community.
There are people, within the Catholic Church at least in the beginning, who chose denial of certain Catholic doctrines. For example, those who reduce Catholic theology to natural science or who consider Catholic theology out of date.
:sad_yes:
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StAnastasia
Guest
I highly doubt it.
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itinerant1
Guest
The Church’s understanding of the Bible includes that fact the Bible cannot be legitimately used to date the earth. Attempts to date the earth using Genesis, is as Ludwig Ott pointed out, private interpretation.
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itinerant1
Guest
If a scientist questions the age of the earth based on genuine scientific considerations, for example, if he thinks the earth is only 3 million years old instead of 4.5 million, that does not make him a YEC.
YEC involves, first, the idea of creation, which is not a scientific but rather a theological notion, and maintains that the world was created 6-10,000 years ago. This belief is grounded in a particular way of reading the bible, but it attempts to use and misuse science to support its biblical interpretation. Hence, anything in science that says something is older than say 6,000-10,000 years must be wrong according to YEC. Hence, he believes himself to be scientific when attempting to show everything can be no older than 10, 000 years, or whatever recent age he has a predilection to support based on his prior “biblical” assumptions.
YEC’s coat their ideology with a “scientific” veneer, just as philosophical materialist wrap their ideology in modern science.
Don’t be fooled by the mere appearance of science – “creation science” is not science.
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itinerant1
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Corrected post:
Granny,
If a scientist questions the age of the earth based on genuine scientific considerations, for example, if he thinks the earth is only 3 billion years old instead of 4.5 billion, that does not make him a YEC.
YEC involves, first, the idea of creation, which is not a scientific but rather a theological notion, and maintains that the world was created 6-10,000 years ago. This belief is grounded in a particular way of reading the bible, but it attempts to use and misuse science to support its peculiar biblical interpretation. Hence, anything in science that says something is older than say 6,000-10,000 years must be wrong according to YEC. Hence, the YEC believes himself to be scientific when attempting to show everything in creation can be no older than 10, 000 years, or whatever recent age he has a predilection to support based on his prior “biblical” assumptions.
YEC’s coat their ideology with a “scientific” veneer, just as philosophical materialists wrap their ideology in modern science.
Don’t be fooled by the mere appearance of science – “creation science” is not science.
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edwest2
Guest
Sad. Pope John Paul II stated the answer to the ontological leap to man cannot be found within science. Speaking about science, Pope Benedict has stated that there are other areas of reason that we still need.
What I mostly see here is, we need evidence to show God did something. No evidence means God didn’t do it. Like rising from the dead? No evidence. Multiplied the loaves and fishes? No evidence. Walked on the water and calmed the wind and waves verbally? No evidence. Raised the dead? Cleansed the lepers? Gave sight to the blind. No evidence, no evidence and no evidence.
Oh yeah. I am constantly reminded that science cannot study God/gods or the supernatural, but here: If science can’t get evidence then It Did Not Happen.
Throw out the Bible, forget about God, and just listen to Scientists. Science will heal you and entertain you and create new toys to play with and snack foods. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.
Oh brother.
God bless,
Ed
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itinerant1
Guest
Poor Ed, you keep going round in the same circle and never get anywhere.
You made reference to Popes John Paul II and Pope Benedict, who both accept evolution, and they will having nothing to do with the creationist fundamentalism of the type you believe in.
Oh my! You rant about the fallacies of scientism, but to what purpose? Do you believe that highlighting the fallacies of scientism will make people blind to the fallacies of creationism and biblical literalism?
Never mind, you may now resume going round in your little circle.
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hugh_r.miller
Guest
Where is your absolute evidence that evolution from one or more common ancestors or whatever, has indeed occurred? Also give solid scientific evidence that Adam was not the first man and that Eve was not taken from him.
Below are quotes from several of your fellow believers that have challenged evidence that man and dinosaurs have coexisted in time. Folks that you call YEC’s have complied with their following requests with absolute proof.
NOVA TV Special, God, Darwin And The Dinosaurs, “…dinosaur footprints, side by side with humans. Finding them would counter evidence that humans evolved long after the dinosaurs became extinct and back up…[the] claim that all species, including man, were created at one time.”
Ernst Mayr
Ernst Mayr, Harvard, “Creationists have stated that humans and dinosaurs were contemporaries in time…Were this momentous statement true the names of its discoverers would thunder down the corridors of time as individuals who made one of the most outstanding discoveries of the twentieth century.” (Gish-Mayr Debate, Evansville, Indiana.) [on audio tape1984 debate]
Niles Eldridge, American Museum of Natural History., “We have been looking at the fossil record as a general test of the notion that life has evolved: to falsify that general idea, we would have to show that forms of life we considered more advanced appear earlier than the simpler forms.” (Monkey Business, p.46, 1982)
Louis Jacobs, Southern Methodist University, Former President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, “co-occurrence of men and dinosaurs. Such an association would dispel an Earth with vast antiquity. The entire history of creation, including the day of rest, could be accommodated in the seven biblical days of the Genesis myth. Evolution would be vanquished.” (In Quest of the African Dinosaur, p.261) *
Evolution has been “vanquished” by a number of evidences as the above gentlemen suggest would be accomplshed by: (1) a trackway of 19 fossil human footprints with Tridactyl dinosaur ones in the Cretaceous limestone bottom of Paluxy River, Glen Rose TX; these trackways can be evaluated by skeptics in a display at the second largest of 16 dinosaur fossil museums in Montana: The Glendive Montana Dinosaur and Fossil Museum. (2) 100 pristine fossil human with several hundred dinosaur footprints have been excavated on the ledges 8 feet above the Paluxy River bottom since 1982. (3) C-14 dating of dinosaur fossil bone collagen and/or calcium carbonate fraction of bioapatite and carbonized wood suggest the ages to be between 23,000 and 37,000 radiocarbon years BP from Texas to the North Slope of Alaska. (4) Exacting dinosaur depictions from Cambodia to Syria to Israel to the US during the past 3000 or so years are similar to those depicted by modern day paleontology artists is further confirmation and challenge the C-14 method as giving older dates than real ages. (5) Scientific references in the literature suggest the above C-14 ages to be about three times older than real ages. (6) Sedimentology research has shown that the geologic column of sedilmentary layers were probably laid down rapidly based on flume studies of how mudstone and sandstone form.
Whta ever brand of evolution is being promoted now days isn’t much different than what was promoted back in the time of the apostles and early church fathers.
Hippolytus of Rome, an early Father of the Church who lived in the second century (d. 235), wrote:
But Leucippus, an associate of Zeno…affirms things to be infinite, and always in motion, and that generation and change exist continuously…And he asserts that worlds are produced when many bodies are congregated and flow together from the surrounding space to a common point, so that by mutual contact they made substances of the same figure and similar in form come into connection; and when thus intertwined, there are transmutations into other bodies, and that created things wax and wane through necessity…”
Basil the Great, another Church Father also observed that:
The philosophers of Greece have made much ado to explain nature, and not one of their systems has remained firm and unshaken, each being overturned by its successor. It is vain to refute them; they are sufficient in themselves to destroy one another.
- (1) C-14 dating of dinosaur bone collagen and bio-apatite has been published in a book by a prodigious Italian government agency, The National Research Council (CNR) entitled “Evolutionism: the decline of an hypothesis”
(2) http://ianjuby.org/delk
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itinerant1
Guest
There were anticipations of evolutionary ideas amongst various Greek thinkers but you statement, “Whta ever brand of evolution is being promoted now days isn’t much different than what was promoted back in the time of the apostles and early church fathers” is highly inaccurate. In fact, in its rather sloppy. There are a number of different theories of evolution in modern times, including a theistic version that the current pope of favorable towards. Such facts in themselves exposes the falsity of your statement.
There are no theories of evolution in ancient times, merely evolutionary ideas in their seminal forms. To claim that any modern theory of evolution “isn’t much different” than ancient evolutionary ideas is just another one of your self-serving falsehoods you would like everyone to believe. Perhaps it enables you to pretend you are an apologist for the faith just as were the Church Fathers. However, the facts are that YEC is not an acceptable interpretation of the Bible.
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itinerant1
Guest
That human footprints exist alongside dinosaur tracks is certainly not something that is proven, as you would like to think that it is.
“Most of the Paluxy sites once claimed to contain human prints are outside DVSP, and have been shown to consist of a variety of misidentified phenomena. However, one of the “man track” sites called the “State Park Shelf” is next to the Main Site described above, on a shelf about a meter above the main track layer. Unlike other alleged “man tracks” outside the park, many of which are forms of elongate dinosaur tracks, the State Park Shelf markings are not prints of any kind, but rather are erosional markings and other irregularities of the rock surface. Often these were selectively highlighted with water or other substances during photography to encourage human shapes. However, without such selective highlighting their human resemblance is largely lost. Indeed, the entire shelf is covered with countless depressions of all shapes and sizes, but no distinct or convincing prints of any kind. In contrast, the nearby Main Site contains many well-preserved dinosaur tracks.” Dinosaur Valley State Park
A Review of NBC’s “The Mysterious Origins of Man”
A Summary of the Paluxy “Man Track” Controversy
“For many years claims were made by strict creationists that human footprints or “giant man tracks” occur alongside dinosaur tracks in the limestone beds of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose Texas. If true, such a finding would dramatically contradict the conventional geologic timetable, which holds that humans did not appear on earth until over 60 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct. However, the “man track” claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and have been abandoned even by most creationists. The supposed human tracks have involved a variety of phenomena, including forms of elongate (metatarsal) dinosaur tracks, erosional features, indistinct markings of uncertain origin, and some doctored and carved specimens (most of the latter on loose blocks of rock). This Web site provides a collection of articles reviewing the history of the controversy and evidence involved, articles on other alleged out-of-order fossils and artifacts, and information and links on dinosaur tracks in general.”
The Texas Dinosaur/“Man Track” Controversy
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buffalo
Guest
Playing With Truth
I used to believe facts and figures counted. I thought that objective, obvious evidence would carry the day. But evolutionists have long since dispelled such silly notions for me. In one public debate with a professor, I read through a dozen or so objective, scientific failures of evolution. With a wave of the hand the professor easily dismissed the entire list. “Those,” he assured the audience, “are all fallacies.” It later became obvious he hadn’t the foggiest idea of what he was talking about.
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I used to believe facts and figures counted. I thought that objective, obvious evidence would carry the day. But evolutionists have long since dispelled such silly notions for me. In one public debate with a professor, I read through a dozen or so objective, scientific failures of evolution. With a wave of the hand the professor easily dismissed the entire list. “Those,” he assured the audience, “are all fallacies.” It later became obvious he hadn’t the foggiest idea of what he was talking about.
more…
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Insight
Guest
The Bible asserts that Adam and Eve were the first humans. When the human Genome was first unraveled, the new technology enabled a Mitochondrial DNA excursion into the past. Shockingly, it was discovered that all humans (every race) descended from one woman thousands of years ago. However, this was not the case with other species, in which the Mitochondrial DNA excursion went mathematically ad infinitum, (which would seem to support the theory of evolution for other critters). This enigma compelled the Discovery Channel to create a documentary entitled: “The Real Eve”.
As far as the age of the Earth, the science of it being billions of years old is very compelling. I don’t think that we can assign a 24hr and 56 minute day to God.
God Bless
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Exceeded 1,000 post limit.
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