The earth is only 6000 years old.

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Not true – evolution is predictive. It predicted the discovery of Tiktaalik, and it predicts the evolution of the flu and of bacteria. It is quite testable.
Tiktaalik was a complete, functional creature. Just like the common seal which can walk on its flippers.

About the flu and bacteria, please read this article by a member of the NAS.

uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/why-do-we-invoke-darwin/

The more I read here, the more confidence I lose in biological science, which consists mostly of trial and error and an explanatory filter that is biased toward one approach only.

Peace,
Ed
 
I am not sure of this. An illiterate can go outside and conduct gravity tests. His conclusion will be as valid as one who can write.
I have no idea where you’re going with this. In order to get through school, a student needs basic skills in order to graduate. Today, some young people entering college are lacking basic skills. So my point is, if you only read at a sixth grade level, what are you going to get out of a college level Biology text? My other point is, the great ideological battle over the age of the earth is part of promoting a worldview, and less about science.

Peace,
Ed
 
Not true – evolution is predictive. It predicted the discovery of Tiktaalik, and it predicts the evolution of the flu and of bacteria. It is quite testable.
Evolutionism is like a palm reader. They predict in a way that anything that happens fulfills the prediction.

Maybe you haven’t heard the latest aboutTiktaalik.
**The Rise and Fall of Tiktaalik? Darwinists Admit “Quality” of Evolutionary Icon is “Poor” in Retroactive Confession of Ignorance
**
 
I have no idea where you’re going with this. In order to get through school, a student needs basic skills in order to graduate. Today, some young people entering college are lacking basic skills. So my point is, if you only read at a sixth grade level, what are you going to get out of a college level Biology text? My other point is, the great ideological battle over the age of the earth is part of promoting a worldview, and less about science.

Peace,
Ed
I agree.
 
Evolutionism is like a palm reader. They predict in a way that anything that happens fulfills the prediction. Maybe you haven’t heard the latest aboutTiktaalik. The Rise and Fall of Tiktaalik? Darwinists Admit “Quality” of Evolutionary Icon is “Poor” in Retroactive Confession of Ignorance
“News” reports from The Discovery Institute are worthless.
 
In my past life as a protestant, the preacher always said that the earth is only 6000 years old and only heathens believed otherwise. I just could not buy into that and my questions went unanswered. It is one in a long, long line of teachings that led me to the true Church. Can anyone explain how this can be taught with a straight face. The nearest answer I received was that when God made the earth, He made the triobites and cephalopods already formed in the rocks. So, such evidence means nothing.
As you can see even Catholics have a very wide and differing point of view on this subject. What can be discerned of this is that the church has not made a clear teching on this as they are not in the business of declaring scientific proclamation. All that truly matters is that God Created us in his image, how he did it is only a guessing game.

Peace!
 
As you can see even Catholics have a very wide and differing point of view on this subject. What can be discerned of this is that the church has not made a clear teching on this as they are not in the business of declaring scientific proclamation. All that truly matters is that God Created us in his image, how he did it is only a guessing game.

Peace!
Well said. There is no more need for the Church to offer magisterial definitions on evolution than than there is on gravity or plate tectonics.
 
Yes, you are. The deplorable state of education today is precisely why real science (and English, math, history, etc.) should be taught in primary and secondary schools. 🙂
What? I have no idea what you’re talking about. None. Just look at any major city. Everyone is struggling to fund schools. Everyone. Programs are being dropped left and right. All I’ve heard for decades is how the newest politician on the scene is going to make sure education gets the money it needs. It either doesn’t happen or only a fraction of the funds get where they should be going.

It’s not a real science issue, it’s a funding issue. Kids are buying their own toilet paper to bring to school. Do you know how many kids actually graduate high school in this country? How many who make it to college that are unprepared to deal with it?

Real science isn’t going to save them. A friend of mine, an inner-city school teacher, told me most of his students spend their time playing video games and hope to be professional sports’ players. They aren’t interested in much more than that.

Peace,
Ed
 
As you can see even Catholics have a very wide and differing point of view on this subject. What can be discerned of this is that the church has not made a clear teching on this as they are not in the business of declaring scientific proclamation. All that truly matters is that God Created us in his image, how he did it is only a guessing game.

Peace!
Of course they are. This or that Pope is quoted here all the time about their scientific proclamations. That is why I see the other comments being made here about this subject are more about ideology and less about science. The moment the Church says anything vaguely negative about the subject, some people, including scientists, freak out. If this was only about science, people would not have to quote the Pope.

The Church has clearly defined its teaching in the document Communion and Stewardship:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040723_communion-stewardship_en.html

Peace,
Ed
 
The deplorable state of education today is precisely
It’s not difficult to comprehend. If people cannot read, they should be taught to read. If people cannot do math, they should be taught to do math. If people do not know history, they should be taught history. If people do not understand science, they should be taught science. People in primary and secondary schools need to be taught all of these. If they are graduating without these basic skills and knowledge, that’s all the more reason to insist that the skills and knowledge really are taught.
Everyone is struggling to fund schools. Everyone. Programs are being dropped left and right.
This is a real problem, I agree. It is not a valid argument against striving to teach a core curriculum.
Real science isn’t going to save them.
Real English and math classes aren’t going to fund the school either. No one is financially compensating seventh graders or their school for the time they spend diagramming sentences or working out word problems on practice worksheets. School funds don’t come from teaching the classes, they go to teaching the classes.
A friend of mine, an inner-city school teacher, told me most of his students spend their time playing video games and hope to be professional sports’ players.
If your friend allows that sort of thing to be done in his classroom, he’s part of the problem.
 
About my inner-city teacher friend. He tells me about his students’ interests, not what they do in class. Most could care less about science. Sports and video games are mostly what’s on their minds.

Peace,
Ed
 
Cardinal Schonborn does in fact say on page 63 of Chance or Purpose? that no transitional fossils have been found.
I hold my tongue…but just for a very short time. That is a good reference you gave and you have an equally good point since yours would seem to be the obvious interpretation of Schonborn’s words. Curiously, the obvious sense does not jive with much else that he says.

What does Schonborn say on page 63? He does not specifically say “no transitional fossils” have been found. He refers to transitional “stages”: “If it is true that everything developed from one first seed, then there ought to be innumerable transitional stages, but no one has yet discovered any of them.”

I think what Schonborn’s is questioning, and he could have stated it more clearly, and elaborated on the point, is that there is a lack of evidence for the Darwinian continuum of transitional forms in regard to the higher taxonomic levels.

The concept Schonborn may think is more accurate is one of a hierarchy or stages in nature, and there are transitions “within” those stages; but that there is lack of evidence for transitions “across” diverse stages.

Nonetheless, I am glad you pointed out the page. I had forgotten about that statement on p. 63. Your interpretation of the wording is the more natural one. So, I should look further into Schonborn’s various writings to confirm for myself just what his views are, and whether they have changed.
 
Most could care less about science.
That doesn’t make one iota of difference to whether they should be taught science. I’m not the only student who absolutely hated math, but it was and should still be required.
 
Where does this embarrassment come from? I have been hearing for decades how this problem has continued. It seems every time a politician runs for office he promises more money for schools, and apparently, more money never gets there, or if it does, it’s not enough.

And here, it appears that only the lack of a belief regarding the age of the earth is of any consequence. There are young people who lack basic skills upon entering their first year of college. Only a low percentage of the population knows how to read.

The focus here is on promoting one idea, and one idea only, as if that idea encompasses all of education. And all of science.

Religion is not usually against science, but I see people quoting this or that Pope regarding science. Why is that? Isn’t the scientific data able to stand on its own without the endorsement of religious leaders? Apparently not.

And people today, especially in the United States, are properly concerned for their children since anti-theist scientists appear on TV and use science to eliminate God. The pagan secular media also reinforces their views. So parents should be concerned. I am sure seeing billboards that proclaim: Praise Darwin. Evolve beyond belief, sends the clear message that a new idol is to be worshipped and that their beliefs should be discarded.

Peace,
Ed
And here, it appears that only the lack of a belief regarding the age of the earth is of any consequence. There are young people who lack basic skills upon entering their first year of college. Only a low percentage of the population knows how to read.

By no means is science the only educational deficiency of consequence; it’s just the only topic of this thread. As far as the lack of basic skills in college freshman, believe me I know this! I work in academia and not a day goes by when I don’t meet college freshmen who can’t read or write at the level of a 6th grader.

Religion is not usually against science, but I see people quoting this or that Pope regarding science. Why is that? Isn’t the scientific data able to stand on its own without the endorsement of religious leaders? Apparently not

Scientific data certainly can stand on its own. But when religious leaders deny that data and forbid their congregations to accept the data, people back down because their fear of hell is stronger than their need for scientific truth. Even Galileo backed down when threatened by the Inquisition.

And people today, especially in the United States, are properly concerned for their children since anti-theist scientists appear on TV and use science to eliminate God.
This is self-defense on the part of the scientists. Religious leaders should remember a saying popular with the children: Don’t start nothin’, won’t be nothin’.
 
The concept Schonborn may think is more accurate is one of a hierarchy or stages in nature, and there are transitions “within” those stages; but that there is lack of evidence for transitions “across” diverse stages.
Itinterant1, I guess the ban is not being observed (the ban is why I stopped our other exchange). The problem for Cardinal Shoenborn’s claim is that we have nicely detailed fossil sequences for whales, horses, hominids, and others lineages. It is simply incorrect to say that there is a “lack of evidence for transitions across diverse stages.”

StAnastasia
 
Itinterant1, I guess the ban is not being observed (the ban is why I stopped our other exchange). The problem for Cardinal Shoenborn’s claim is that we have nicely detailed fossil sequences for whales, horses, hominids, and others lineages. It is simply incorrect to say that there is a “lack of evidence for transitions across diverse stages.”

StAnastasia
Certainly. I agree in regard to the kind of fossil sequences you are speaking about. That much seems obvious about transitional types. Yet there are scientists who dissent on just how well the equid transitions are actually represented. For instance, one evolutionist said Darwinians are putting the chart before the horse.

But if Schonborn means what appears to be the obvious sense of his words, then one has to wonder what the basis is for his statement. But my main concern is just what does he mean by “evolution”, as he does maintain that cosmic and biological evolution are facts of nature. You can see the obvious difficulty here.

By “stages”, I should have said the higher taxonomic levels, Class, etc., such as that which divides Aves and Archosauria, for instance. Of course the Archeopteryx first comes to mind, which is said to be transitional. But I vaguely remember reading some fairly good arguments by an evolutionist (applying cladistics I think) as to why the Archeopteryx is not truly transitional. I don’t necessarily agree, but I was wondering whether this is the level of transitional stage Schonborn is questioning.

In any case, I have to head out for the day, and I will get back on this issue later…
 
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