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Fayle
Guest
Didn’t Pope John Paul II accept evolution? Was he anti-Christian? 
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grannymh
Guest
Most likely the habit of using mythical is from the popular “so-called Chrisitan” authors in the 1980’s who were out to demote Jesus from His status as True God to an itinerant preacher.
Blessings,
granny
Spring is a message of hope sent by God.
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edwest2
Guest
Pope John Paul II spoke of more than one theory, and he added the qualifying comment about certain ‘fixed points.’Didn’t Pope John Paul II accept evolution? Was he anti-Christian?
So, it’s not as cut and dry as presented here too often.
God bless,
Ed
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grannymh
Guest
I wonder how many people actually read the paragraphs surrounding anything Pope John Paul II wrote. Also I wonder if people realize that the broad term evolution does not include human beings.Didn’t Pope John Paul II accept evolution? Was he anti-Christian?
Individual high ranking Catholic clergy, like J.P. speak about evolution found in nature. This is the material and physical realm. When it comes to human nature, there is the spiritual realm. People like Pope John Paul II and others do not accept evolution of the spiritual soul.
Blessings,
granny
Human life is sacred.
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grannymh
Guest
Pardon me.
This is really a question for all the posters on this thread. How does the age of the earth promote Christianity???
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ricmat
Guest
That I had doubts that you believed the resurrection not to have really happened is not a lie.
I think you were asked this question directly at some point and refused to answer. There were a whole bunch of unanswered questions.
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ricmat
Guest
There is a page long summary of this subject in the US Catholic Catechism for Adults (on page 60 in my version).
One of the interesting things JP2 said (which contradicts the proposals of many here, especially those who are fascinated with emergent properties of the brain) is the following:
“…the theories of evolution that consider the human soul the seat of the intellect and the will by which the human person comes to know and love God “as emerging from forces of living matter” would not be compatible with the truth about the dignity of the human person as taught in Revelation.”
This whole “emergent” properties stuff seems to be popular with many Catholics, even theologians. I wasn’t involved in those threads, although they did get my dander up when I read them.
I’m not going to manually type the whole thing. You’ll have to buy the book
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StAnastasia
Guest
That too is a lie and a calumny.
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ricmat
Guest
IMHO, the age of the earth is not relevant (or Creation in general). In any case, God did it. No matter what the answer is, God did it.
As a side issue, as an engineer, I’m really interested in HOW God did it, because as a scientist, understanding the details can lead me to better appreciate the glory and majesty of God. And I truly stand in awe of his Creation. From the “beauty” sense. From the “power” sense. From the “That’s a heck of a design” sense. From the “God is so far above me that I can only begin to understand him if he helps me” sense. And from the “I’m just in awe” sense.
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StAnastasia
Guest
It doesn’t promote Christianity any more than electromagnetism promotes it, or plate tectonics, or cell theory.
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ricmat
Guest
That I thought that you were asked this question and refused to answer is not a lie.
I tried searching through the archives, and could not find the post I was looking for. It had about 6 or 7 “Do you believe” questions in it (It wasn’t my post) of the sort, do you believe that there was a worldwide flood (Noah), do you believe that Moses actually parted the Red Sea, and so forth. I thought that in that same post the question was asked “Do you believe that Jesus resurrected himself from the dead?” It’s possible that you actually answered that post in detail and I just missed the response. If you happen to know the post I’m talking about, and you did respond in detail, please link it so I can be up to date on your answers.
While searching, I did find a post in response elsewhere in which you said you believed in the resurrection of Jesus, so I withdraw my statement about having doubts about you believing that.
1 of 4. But to clarify, do you believe that Jesus resurrected himself from the dead? or not?
2 of 4. Do you believe that Adam and Eve were real persons, or mythical?
3 of 4. Do you believe that there was a worldwide flood at the time of Noah (or is that mythical?)
4 of 4. Do you believe that the Red Sea parting, and the other biblical events at the time of Moses really happened, or is that story mythical?
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Rence
Guest
Exactly. Whether you believe in the theory of evolution, or that the earth is only 6000 years old, isn’t the important thing to know is that God created the earth and the universe? And who says God’s days are 24 hours? Why does God have to conform to human limitations? Is he not omnipotent and omniscient?
I believe that the earth is WAY older than 6000 years. So what? how does that belief undermine the fact that God created everything?
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hugh_miller
Guest
That’s a very important question that needs more discussion. The main thrust of this thread is the statement: **“The Earth is only 6000 year old.” That is a question of earth age which I posted earlier www.earthage.org **
I would suggest that if it can be shown with scientific data that the earth may NOT be 4.5 billion years old then that data should be allowed in our children and grand childrens classrooms. Of course this would only be discussed when the subject of origins comes up. Then there could be an honest debate and our children would not think that they are a product of blind chance through unknown natural process or a Deity who has programmed them to develop from a common ancestor using His celestial computer.
*In a recent book published and released on November 6, 2009 by the National Research Council [CNR] of Italy entitled, “Evolutionism: The Decline of an Hypothesis” there is a report by a number of scientists that dinosaurs and man have indeed coexisted based on C-14 dating of dinosaur femur bone collagen from the Montana Badlands. This 22 page technical paper with 80 some reference citations show that C-14 dating of fossil bones of many species that all lived at the same time. They repeated the testing on dinosaur calcium carbonate fraction of dinosaur bioapatite and obtained concordant C-14 ages all in the range of 23,000 to 30,000 C-14 years. Thus those alleged 65,000,000 to 225 million years since dinosaurs supposedly became extinct perhaps only exist in the minds of some men. *
What about then those other millions of years, do they even exist?
**
Some in the academic community were horrified that someone would dare attack their “sacred cow” with actual hard data by a government agency like the CNR. You can read their rants and demands at this link: http://blogs.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2009/12/italy-science-a.html#more
Previous to the above, Sapienza University di Roma published a small booklet of a conference held there on September 3, 2008 entitled, “A Scientific Critique of Evolution.” Those responsible for publishing the above critique were *Prof. Pierre Rabischong, Professore Emerito di Medicine, Universita di Montpellier and Prof. Fabio Scoppa, Dottore di Ricerio in Neuroscienze, Coordinator Scientifico del Master Posturologia, 1 Facolta di Medicina e Chicurgia, Sapienza Universita di Roma. *The research papers were: (1) Experiments in Stratification do not support the Theory of Evolution. (2) Are Radioactive-dating methods reliable? (3) The second Law of Thermodynamics and Evolution (4) The Concept of evolution in biology and (5) Race formation and mutations do not constitute steps in evolution.
*Sapienza UN is one o the largest secular universities in the world with 150,000 students.
*Can you imagine any major University in the USA publishing a critique against the “Sacred Cow” of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences let alone having an open meeting in a classroom on the campus? Perish the thought, it won’t happen.
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edwest2
Guest
The age of the earth is very relevant. Without long ages, the concept of evolutionary development will be in serious trouble. I am in awe of the truth, not pushy ideologies.
God bless,
Ed
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StAnastasia
Guest
Ricmat, I neither launch nor respond to inquisitions about a particular person’s theological beliefs. I find such inquisitions uncharitable and obnoxious. However, I’m happy to discuss questions about the theological implications of the age of the earth.
StAnastasia
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Rence
Guest
If you please, is this an infallible teaching? Can you show me a encyclical or some other document from the Church saying this please?
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edwest2
Guest
First of all, two individual human beings were the parents of all. The Church teaches Adam and Eve. Next, Eve was formed from Adam’s side. That is taught as fact. It does not fit into any evolutionary scenario. Next, they sinned. If you read your Bible, it is confirmed that through one man sin entered the world. Now, why was Jesus Christ made flesh and born into the world? To die as a sacrifice for our salvation because of Original Sin.
The 24 hours you refer to has nothing to do with human limitations. It didn’t come from that. In Genesis, we read that “the morning and the evening was the third (etc.) day.” St. Augustine in City of God stated that the earth is not yet 6000 years old. Now, it appears that the earth is somewhat older than 6000 years. The Church allows Catholics to believe thousands or billions.
But not here. The phrase “there is no evidence” is repeated over and over. There is no evidence for the miracles performed by Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible. So, if there is no evidence, does that mean they did not actually happen?
God bless,
Ed
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ricmat
Guest
This was grannymh’s original question:
IMHO, the age of the earth is not relevant (or Creation in general). In any case, God did it. No matter what the answer is, God did it.
The concept of evolutionary development is in trouble anyhow. It will fall regardless of the age of the earth.
My answer was:
IMHO, the age of the earth is not relevant (or Creation in general). In any case, God did it. No matter what the answer is, God did it.
My ideology, as referenced above, is “God did it.” The truth of the matter is that we just don’t know exactly when God did it, and Christianity doesn’t rise or fall on the answer. I’m not sure why you have an issue with that.
The concept of evolutionary development is in trouble anyhow. It will fall regardless of the age of the earth.
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ricmat
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StAnastasia
Guest
Actually it’s not in trouble – the concept of evolutionary development is flourishing.
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