The Eastern Church on Marian Dogma/Doctrines

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What differences with the Western Church exist regarding the Big 4 Dogma ?

What regarding the Big Four Doctrines ?

Does the Eastern hold others (Dog/Docs) …not in common with the RCC ?
 
brb3 said:
What differences with the Western Church exist regarding the Big 4 Dogma ?

What regarding the Big Four Doctrines ?

Does the Eastern hold others (Dog/Docs) …not in common with the RCC ?
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Do you mean these?

1 Filioque
2 Purgatory and Indulgences
a. The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory. (De fide.)
b. The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences. (De fide.)
c. The use of Indulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful. (De fide.) D989,998
3 The Immaculate Conception - Ineffabilis Deus 1854.
4 Pastor Aeternus 1870.
a. Apostolic primacy conferred on Peter
b. The perpetuity of the Petrine Primacy in the Roman pontiffs
c. The meaning and power of the papal primacy
d. Papal infallibility - infallible teaching authority ex cathedra
 
Vico said:
Do you mean these?

1 Filioque
2 Purgatory and Indulgences
a. The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory. (De fide.)
b. The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences. (De fide.)
c. The use of Indulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful. (De fide.) D989,998
3 The Immaculate Conception - Ineffabilis Deus 1854.
4 Pastor Aeternus 1870.
a. Apostolic primacy conferred on Peter
b. The perpetuity of the Petrine Primacy in the Roman pontiffs
c. The meaning and power of the papal primacy
d. Papal infallibility - infallible teaching authority ex cathedra
Click to expand...
So, I take it these u list above are the doctrinal points of contention?

If so, can your Patriarch & Pope Benedict work out the differences in their lifetimes ?
 
I’m RCC, but probably only 98% kosher on its doc/dogmas.

The IC Of Mary, in 1854, strikes me as tough to reason thru. Also, the push for Mediatrix of ALL GRACES, seems unbiblical. Hope Benedict leaves it alone.

But, the other Marian Dogma / Doctrines seem well supported by scripture & tradition & I accept.
 
brb3 said:
So, I take it these u list above are the doctrinal points of contention?

If so, can your Patriarch & Pope Benedict work out the differences in their lifetimes ?
Click to expand...
Actually there are long existing threads on each of these issues on this forum withing the last year or two. Personally I am Byzantine Catholic which is part of the Catholic Church.

There are dialogues in progress to discover how to re-unite. See this Vatican site on the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/index.htm

If you are interested in the Orthodox response recently see:
scoba.us/
 
Orthodox Christianity includes a large number of traditions regarding the Ever Virgin Mary, the Theotokos. The Orthodox believe that she was and remained a virgin before and after Christ’s birth. The Theotokia (i.e. hymns to the Theotokos) are an essential part of the Divine Services in the Eastern Church and their positioning within the liturgical sequence effectively places the Theotokos in the most prominent place after Christ. Within the Orthodox tradition, the order of the saints begins with: The Theotokos, Angels, Prophets, Apostles, Fathers, Martyres, etc. giving the Virgin Mary precedence over the angels. She is also proclaimed as the “Lady of the Angels”.

:angel1:
 
The views of the Church Fathers still play an important role in the shaping of Orthodox Marian perspective. However, the Orthodox views on Mary are mostly doxological, rather than academic: they are expressed in hymns, praise, liturgical poetry and the veneration of icons. One of the most loved Orthodox Akathists (i.e. standing hymns) is devoted to Mary and it is often simply called the Akathist Hymn. Five of the twelve Great Feasts in Orthodoxy are dedicated to Mary. The Sunday of Orthodoxy directly links the Virgin Mary’s identity as Mother of God with icon veneration. A number of Orthodox feasts are connected with the miraculous icons of the Theotokos.

:angel1:
 
The Orthodox view Mary as “superior to all created beings”, although not divine. The Orthodox venerate Mary as conceived immaculate and assumed into heaven, but they do not accept the Roman Catholic dogmas on these doctrines. The Orthodox celebrate the Dormition of the Theotokos, rather than Assumption.

:angel1:
 
The Protoevangelium of James, an extra-canonical book, has been the source of many Orthodox beliefs on Mary. The account of Mary’s life presented includes her consecration as a virgin at the temple at age three. The High Priest Zachariah blessed Mary and informed her that God had magnified her name among many generations. Zachariah placed Mary on the third step of the altar, whereby God gave her grace. While in the temple, Mary was miraculously fed by an angel, until she was twelve years old. At that point an angel told Zachariah to betroth Mary to a widower in Israel, who would be indicated. This story provides the theme of many hymns for the Feast of the Presentation of Mary, and icons of the feast depict the story. The Orthodox believe that Mary was instrumental in the growth of Christianity during the life of Jesus, and after his Crucifixion, and Orthodox Theologian Sergei Bulgakov wrote: “The Virgin Mary is the center, invisible, but real, of the Apostolic Church”.

:angel1:
 
Theologians from the Orthodox tradition have made prominent contributions to the development of Marian thought and devotion. John Damascene (c 650─c 750) was one of the greatest Orthodox theologians. Among other Marian writings, he proclaimed the essential nature of Mary’s heavenly Assumption or Dormition and her mediative role.

“It was necessary that the body of the one who preserved her virginity intact in giving birth should also be kept incorrupt after death. It was necessary that she, who carried the Creator in her womb when he was a baby, should dwell among the tabernacles of heaven.”

“From her we have harvested the grape of life; from her we have cultivated the seed of immortality. For our sake she became Mediatrix of all blessings; in her God became man, and man became God.”

:angel1:
 
More recently, Sergei Bulgakov expressed the Orthodox sentiments towards Mary as follows:

Mary is not merely the instrument, but the direct positive condition of the Incarnation, its human aspect. Christ could not have been incarnate by some mechanical process, violating human nature. It was necessary for that nature itself to say for itself, by the mouth of the most pure human being: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to Thy word.”

:angel1:
 
Vico said:
Do you mean these?

1 Filioque
2 Purgatory and Indulgences
a. The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory. (De fide.)
b. The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences. (De fide.)
c. The use of Indulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful. (De fide.) D989,998
3 The Immaculate Conception - Ineffabilis Deus 1854.
4 Pastor Aeternus 1870.
a. Apostolic primacy conferred on Peter
b. The perpetuity of the Petrine Primacy in the Roman pontiffs
c. The meaning and power of the papal primacy
d. Papal infallibility - infallible teaching authority ex cathedra
Click to expand...
Those are Marian doctrines?
 
jwinch2 said:
Those are Marian doctrines?
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No, but they are referred to as the Big 4, so that is why I asked for clarification. If restricted to Marian dogma the list would be these:
  1. Mary is truly the Mother of God. (De fide.)
  2. Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin. (De fide.)
  3. Mary conceived by the Holy Ghost without the co-operation of man. (De fide.)
  4. Mary bore her Son without any violation of her virginal integrity. (De fide on the ground of the general promulgation of doctrine.)
  5. Also after the Birth of Jesus Mary remained a Virgin. (De fide.)
  6. Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven. (De fide.)
For No. 1: some eastern churches believe in Christotokos rather than Theotokos.
For No. 2: there is an Orthodox belief that is was not necessary to define this dogma. Yet because original sin dogma was given without including the Virgin Mary, there were requests to resolve the issue, by bishops, and the Pope had to command that arguments on it cease prior to that.
For No. 3: it is common belief.
For No. 4 & 5: we see the three stars on the icons of Mary.
For No. 6: the feast is the Dormition rather than Assumption. The Catholic dogma makes no declaration of her physical death, though it is the traditional belief.
 
Vico said:
No, but they are referred to as the Big 4, so that is why I asked for clarification. If restricted to Marian dogma the list would be these:
  1. Mary is truly the Mother of God. (De fide.)
  2. Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin. (De fide.)
  3. Mary conceived by the Holy Ghost without the co-operation of man. (De fide.)
  4. Mary bore her Son without any violation of her virginal integrity. (De fide on the ground of the general promulgation of doctrine.)
  5. Also after the Birth of Jesus Mary remained a Virgin. (De fide.)
  6. Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven. (De fide.)
Click to expand...
👍
 
Wedded_to_God said:
The Orthodox view Mary as “superior to all created beings”, although not divine. The Orthodox venerate Mary as conceived immaculate and assumed into heaven, but they do not accept the Roman Catholic dogmas on these doctrines. The Orthodox celebrate the Dormition of the Theotokos, rather than Assumption.

:angel1:
Click to expand...
If u believe them true …Why not accept them ?
 
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