The EF "doesn't seem Catholic"

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ImmaculataFides said:
It’s not an overstatement. Many Novus Ordo parishes don’t even “sit-stand-kneel” anyway.
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Let’s be accurate – some OF parishes don’t kneel after communion. But only the Orthodox are standing through the entire liturgy! 😃
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Let’s be accurate – some OF parishes don’t kneel after communion. But only the Orthodox are standing through the entire liturgy! 😃
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And to be even more accurate, some OF parishes don’t kneel at all.
 
I’m surprised the Moderators haven’t closed this thread yet. LOL.

If a 17 year-old said that the EF Mass didn’t seem Catholic, I’d say that all the Catholics from around 500AD to about 1960 would say the same about the OF Mass. So what? Are we trying to be saints and worship God, or are we trying to do the hierarchy’s job for them?

If you like EF Masses better, then go to them. That will help you grow in holiness and get to Heaven. The same for the OF Mass. If you are liturgically perfect but go to Hell, what did it matter?
 
ImmaculataFides said:
It’s not an overstatement. Many Novus Ordo parishes don’t even “sit-stand-kneel” anyway.
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Proof? Or is this your perception being applied en masse?

There’s no harm in asking, but I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Let’s be accurate – some OF parishes don’t kneel after communion. But only the Orthodox are standing through the entire liturgy! 😃
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Semantics. Many don’t. Nevertheless, my points remain.
 
Melchior said:
Proof? Or is this your perception being applied en masse?

There’s no harm in asking, but I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.
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Certain generalizations are necessary. You hear about these abuses time and time again, and you see them, time and time again.
 
ImmaculataFides said:
Certain generalizations are necessary. You hear about these abuses time and time again, and you see them, time and time again.
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I live in one of the largest cities in my country, and I have been to many Ordinary Form Masses. I have not seen what you speak of, with the exception of one parish. Then in my hometown and surrounding area, I saw none of what you speak of.
 
I have experienced masses where kneeling does not occur in my area. Please keep our new priests who are working so hard to re-educate their flocks to the order of the mass in your prayers. Ours had to make a bulletin announcement to straighten some of this out.We are so blessed to have him in our parish.
 
Windmill said:
I’m surprised the Moderators haven’t closed this thread yet. LOL.

If a 17 year-old said that the EF Mass didn’t seem Catholic, I’d say that all the Catholics from around 500AD to about 1960 would say the same about the OF Mass. So what? Are we trying to be saints and worship God, or are we trying to do the hierarchy’s job for them?

If you like EF Masses better, then go to them. That will help you grow in holiness and get to Heaven. The same for the OF Mass. If you are liturgically perfect but go to Hell, what did it matter?
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Actually if you go to 500AD, you’d be surprised in the diversity of how the Liturgy was celebrated. They wouldn’t even be surprised with the OF Mass.
 
ImmaculataFides said:
Semantics. Many don’t. Nevertheless, my points remain.
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Many don’t? I live in an area fairly densely populated with Catholics (Jersey) and so have been to a decently large number of parishes. I’ve never heard of or seen a Mass where nobody kneels.
 
Lujack said:
Many don’t? I live in an area fairly densely populated with Catholics (Jersey) and so have been to a decently large number of parishes. I’ve never heard of or seen a Mass where nobody kneels.
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There are parishes out here near the west coast where the churches were even built without kneelers or the kneelers had been removed. I remember attending Mass in Santa Clara once where the Jesuit padre announced at the beginning of the Canon “Please remain standing for the rest of Mass in honor of the Risen Christ.”
 
roadsend said:
There are parishes out here near the west coast where the churches were even built without kneelers or the kneelers had been removed. I remember attending Mass in Santa Clara once where the Jesuit padre announced at the beginning of the Canon “Please remain standing for the rest of Mass in honor of the Risen Christ.”
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So folks are standing in honor of the Risen Christ. They aren’t standing because they are too proud to kneel. I prefer to kneel, but standing is considered a mark of respect as well.

However, we are way off topic now. 😉
 
Melchior said:
Proof? Or is this your perception being applied en masse?

There’s no harm in asking, but I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.
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Well, I don’t know if it’s “many” but I was in one.

They had folding chairs instead of pews. It wasn’t a poor church or a new one. They took out the pews, (according to the Sister who was the RCIA director who showed me around) specifically to keep people from kneeling. This was in Glen Burnie, Maryland about 5 yrs ago.

It was really kinda creepy.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
So folks are standing in honor of the Risen Christ. They aren’t standing because they are too proud to kneel. I prefer to kneel, but standing is considered a mark of respect as well.

However, we are way off topic now. 😉
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We honor the Risen Christ best by obeying the teaching of the Church, which is to kneel.
Caught by surprise, I stood like the rest of the sheeple, but it won’t happen again.
It is sinful to knowingly disobey the teaching of the Church.
 
ConstantineTG said:
The problem with today’s world is we always view difference meaning that one has to be better than the other. Its not just in forms of Liturgy. Women don’t want to be different than men because they think if they are seen as different, it means they are lesser. We don’t want to acknowledge there are differences in races in culture again because we think difference means one has to be better than the other. We ignore the fact that variety means we are meant to complement one another. Everyone has something lacking and everyone has something better than the other. We should see this as an opportunity for one another to help each other rather than compete. Same with the Liturgies, not only between the two forms of the Roman Rite, but all the other Rites as well. The uniqueness of each one should complement the others to give us the fullness of our faith. It is not meant that one is superior to the other.
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This I think is the best post I have read on this general topic. The interesting thing here is that whenever this gets discussed, no one ever discusses how the Anglican Use liturgy used by the Ordinariate fits in. Is it just an outlier or a part of the greater picture? I think there is a temptation to assume that only a small number of catholics. I don’t think that it will play out that way.
 
tominrichmond said:
I think it’s more a situation of giving someone who’s just been fed on thin milk a big steak. It’s more nutritious and yummier, but awfully hard to swallow until you get used to it.

This young man, and many others, need to be slowly introduced to the Church’s venerable traditions that have been shamefully suppressed, whether de facto or de jure doesn’t matter.

My experience has been that a Catholic of good will quickly comes to appreciate the older form as more connected with the history and tradition of the Church, and less time-bound than the rite devised in 1970.
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It seems to me analogous to art ( books, movies, paintings etc.) much art can be difficult to chew at first, and may even seem unappetizing, but I have found that so much art I have at first found hard to chew, has so much depth, and I have come to see its beauty and communication of truth in time. The first time I heard Mahler was at the request of my brother. It sounded like noise to me and I had a headache the whole time I was listening to the symphony. A while later, I heard the same symphony on a car ride and was moved to tears, I began to understand it.

I believe that Art is objectively good or bad, and that how a truth is communicated matters - form and content need to be one; if the content is sublime, than the form needs to be as well.
 
wasserfall said:
The only thought that comes to my mind is that the only possible conclusion one could derive from his comment is that his regular parish mass isn’t very Catholic.
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That’s what I think too.

Sad.
 
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