The EF "doesn't seem Catholic"

[ProVobis]

Tradition doesn’t change. There’s not “Pre-Vatican II traditions” and “Conciliar traditions”. There’s simply, tradition. They are tradition, and therefore need to be restored.

I wish it were different, but because the progressive nature of society, I don’t think this is possible. Languages morph. Conveniences increase. Tools become more sophisticated. Medicine increases longetivity. Less fasting required. These are not necessarily bad things. They just are and we eventually adjust. We can only be upset about something for so long. I doubt if anyone misses the 8-track player any more, for example.

The Missal of 1962 or the Missal of 1670 can be restored but the environment, not so. We don’t wear suits to ball games. Very few fast 3 hours before communion. Very few view sin as they once did. Fewer go to Church in spite of having more alternatives, including 500 vernaculars. Fewer attend Catholic schools where they used to teach catechism exhaustively. Fewer nuns to teach music and spelling. And so forth. We can only do with what we have, and as long as it’s here, let’s make the best of it. Many times we don’t value something until we lose it. Same thing with the TLM, IMO.

 

[JustaServant]

Many times we don’t value something until we lose it. Same thing with the TLM, IMO.

Those were my dad’s words. It was only when the changes began that they sat up and took notice. Maybe guilt over negleting it in their younger years.

 

[thewanderer]

Tradition doesn’t change. There’s not “Pre-Vatican II traditions” and “Conciliar traditions”. There’s simply, tradition. They are tradition, and therefore need to be restored.

“Tradition” doesn’t change. I agree. However “traditions” can and do.

 

[ProVobis]

“Tradition” doesn’t change. I agree. However “traditions” can and do.

One can make the case that part of Tradition is having the liturgy said in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, the three languages of the cross.

 

[clem456]

It astounds me to see the conflict between men over the Extra Ordinary Form and the Novus Ordo Form of the Mass.

Can one ever see it reasonable to argue and divide after receiving the author of life and communion.

I have served in hundreds of Novus Ordo masses done with extreme reverence and beauty and over the past year I have been serving the Extraordinary Form at least twice a week and it then that I realized there was a war going on between Novus Ordo daily communicates and EF daily communicates.

I didn’t realize the intensity of the division at first but now I do and I see it as a tremendous break. A wound in the Body of Christ that bleeds rivers of blood.

If a Mass whether EF or NO is done invalidly and with out any reverence, love and beauty than there is a reason to step up and say something and demand correction. But to argue and divide over two forms of the perpetual sacrifice which is the representation of the sacrifice on Calvary in a non bloody manner is to intellectually and willfully do the exact opposite of what Jesus Christ came to do for all of us which was to reconcile and “Unite” all men to the Father and to each other through the shedding of His Most Precious Blood…

There are always things to discuss and no one likes change and all too often people abuse change and take it as an opportunity to take the “New Form - ation” of something and irreverently “De - form” it in to something that is inappropriate.

That warrants attention that could lead to division but that is not what the current strife between brothers is about. It seems to be instead something deformed with in itself. A detachment from the Holiness of the Mass that leads men to division rather than Communion…

May the Lord’s Peace and Love come to dwell within our hearts while the receiving of the Most Blessed Sacrament transforms us into the image and likeness of Peace and Love itself, Our Lord Jesus Christ…

Thank you for that.

 

[thewanderer]

One can make the case that part of Tradition is having the liturgy said in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, the three languages of the cross.

Really?? so the Eastern Catholics who have been celebrating Divine Liturgy in the vernacular arent following Tradition??

 

[paperwight66]

I cannot watch as people receive in the hand. It is just not right!!! AND our Holy Father, Benedict XVI, God bless him, has shown by example that he agrees with me!! God be praised
.

Here we go again. The Pope, in his book, ‘The Light of the World’ has stated that ‘I personally, have no problem with Communion in the hand, and have both given and received that way myself’.’

See the thread ‘Pope Benedict wishes for communicants’ for page numbers.

 

[bmonk]

It astounds me to see the conflict between men over the Extra Ordinary Form and the Novus Ordo Form of the Mass.

Can one ever see it reasonable to argue and divide after receiving the author of life and communion.

I have served in hundreds of Novus Ordo masses done with extreme reverence and beauty and over the past year I have been serving the Extraordinary Form at least twice a week and it then that I realized there was a war going on between Novus Ordo daily communicates and EF daily communicates.

I didn’t realize the intensity of the division at first but now I do and I see it as a tremendous break. A wound in the Body of Christ that bleeds rivers of blood.

If a Mass whether EF or NO is done invalidly and with out any reverence, love and beauty than there is a reason to step up and say something and demand correction. But to argue and divide over two forms of the perpetual sacrifice which is the representation of the sacrifice on Calvary in a non bloody manner is to intellectually and willfully do the exact opposite of what Jesus Christ came to do for all of us which was to reconcile and “Unite” all men to the Father and to each other through the shedding of His Most Precious Blood…

There are always things to discuss and no one likes change and all too often people abuse change and take it as an opportunity to take the “New Form - ation” of something and irreverently “De - form” it in to something that is inappropriate.

That warrants attention that could lead to division but that is not what the current strife between brothers is about. It seems to be instead something deformed with in itself. A detachment from the Holiness of the Mass that leads men to division rather than Communion…

May the Lord’s Peace and Love come to dwell within our hearts while the receiving of the Most Blessed Sacrament transforms us into the image and likeness of Peace and Love itself, Our Lord Jesus Christ…

I find it far better to appreciate the good in both forms–so that you can be reverent and pray either way, rather than denigrate the “other”.

Didn’t our savior and model tell us to “Love one another as I have loved you”? (emphasis added)

 

[clem456]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj33777
It astounds me to see the conflict between men over the Extra Ordinary Form and the Novus Ordo Form of the Mass.

Can one ever see it reasonable to argue and divide after receiving the author of life and communion.

I have served in hundreds of Novus Ordo masses done with extreme reverence and beauty and over the past year I have been serving the Extraordinary Form at least twice a week and it then that I realized there was a war going on between Novus Ordo daily communicates and EF daily communicates.

I didn’t realize the intensity of the division at first but now I do and I see it as a tremendous break. A wound in the Body of Christ that bleeds rivers of blood.

If a Mass whether EF or NO is done invalidly and with out any reverence, love and beauty than there is a reason to step up and say something and demand correction. But to argue and divide over two forms of the perpetual sacrifice which is the representation of the sacrifice on Calvary in a non bloody manner is to intellectually and willfully do the exact opposite of what Jesus Christ came to do for all of us which was to reconcile and “Unite” all men to the Father and to each other through the shedding of His Most Precious Blood…

There are always things to discuss and no one likes change and all too often people abuse change and take it as an opportunity to take the “New Form - ation” of something and irreverently “De - form” it in to something that is inappropriate.

That warrants attention that could lead to division but that is not what the current strife between brothers is about. It seems to be instead something deformed with in itself. A detachment from the Holiness of the Mass that leads men to division rather than Communion…

May the Lord’s Peace and Love come to dwell within our hearts while the receiving of the Most Blessed Sacrament transforms us into the image and likeness of Peace and Love itself, Our Lord Jesus Christ…

I find it far better to appreciate the good in both forms–so that you can be reverent and pray either way, rather than denigrate the “other”.

Didn’t our savior and model tell us to “Love one another as I have loved you”? (emphasis added)

I find it far better to appreciate the good in both forms–so that you can be reverent and pray either way, rather than denigrate the “other”.

 

[domandcarols]

Look at the bright side. At least the 17-year-old didn’t say that the EF seemed Protestant.

 

[bmonk]

Source please?

I’m not sure of any specific source, but A.D. 500 had different rites in Gaul, Hispania, Milan, Rome, and likely North Africa that we are aware of–plus others in the Eastern, Greek-speaking Empire. Likely Britain too, but maybe not Ireland yet–St. Patrick had not yet gone there.

Perhaps the original person meant after Trent’s reforms and the promulgation of Pius V’s Missal in 1570, although it was by no means universally adopted for some time. Still, that would give about 360 years of little change and mostly universal Mass texts.

 

[bmonk]

. . . I am used to beautiful liturgy, and I almost exclusively attend the OF. We have chant and bells every Mass, often incense, always well done, careful liturgy. I have also attend stunning high Mass EFs and some pretty dismal low Mass EFs.

I have never in my life seen liturgical dance, sermonizing Easter bunnies, priests with the wrong vestments, clay chalices, or similar things at a Catholic Mass. On the other hand, if someone is used to a solemn, orthodox Mass and attends an EF low Mass with the priest speaking and moving rapidly, those 52 sign of the cross movements begin to look dizzying and Mass can be over before you’ve found your place in the missal.

What we all should be praying for is orthodox, devout priests who will celebrate Mass well, no matter which form or rite they use.

I hear stories about the priest who, ordered to spend at least 10 minutes saying Mass, would look at his watch for three minutes before the Final Gospel.

Perhaps some priests go overboard, in the OF or the EF, but I have not met many. I don’t know of any serving in my diocese–44 diocesan priests, 10 priests from India, and about 20 order priests, including those just living in a monastery–who do such things.

 

[Phemie]

Nah. Just the kneeling.

I’ve been to Anglican parishes where they kneel. In Canadian parishes today, you’re lucky if you kneel once, for Consecration.

At the local Anglican parish they kneel at the rail to receive communion.