The efficacy of confession.

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fromckcc

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I have issues with the church’s stance on confession. I believe that it is a method by which God forgives our sins but I don’t believe it is the only way to be forgiven of mortal sins. Jesus told his disciples to receive the holy spirit. He also told them that whatever sins they forgave were forgiven and whatever sins they retained would be retained. He didn’t say that the only way a particular type of sin could be forgiven was for one of his anointed ones to forgive it. How then did the church arrive at that conclusion?
 
fromckcc said:
I have issues with the church’s stance on confession. I believe that it is a method by which God forgives our sins but I don’t believe it is the only way to be forgiven of mortal sins.
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We are indeed bound by the Sacraments but God is not, however confession to a Priest is the ordinary way that Jesus, through the Church, has given us to have our sins forgiven.
fromckcc said:
IJesus told his disciples to receive the holy spirit. He also told them that whatever sins they forgave were forgiven and whatever sins they retained would be retained.
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Not all of his disciples, he specifically charged the Apostles, who then passed this power along through Apostolic Succession.
fromckcc said:
He didn’t say that the only way a particular type of sin could be forgiven was for one of his anointed ones to forgive.
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What other way do you see in Scripture or Tradition?
fromckcc said:
How then did the church arrive at that conclusion?
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Codified in Sacred Scripture and defined in Sacred Tradition - the way the Church has always worked. For example, Jesus gives us the Eucharist (codified in Scripture) but the Church tells us what that looks like (the Mass, through Sacred Tradition).
 
I don’t understand how one can claim that if someone was truly sorry for his/her sins (e.g fornication) and repented totally that the person would still not be forgiven. What about protestants?
 
He didn’t say that the only way a particular type of sin could be forgiven was for one of his anointed ones to forgive.
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Well to a degree you are correct, sacramental confession is not the only way sins can be forgiven. Firstly, venial sins can be forgiven in other ways (e.g. the penitential rite at Mass). Secondly, even for mortal sins there is such a thing as perfect contrition - being truly sorry for your sins for the reason that they are offensive to God. The reasons for sacramental confession is that it lowers the bar - you only need imperfect contrition, such as fear of going to hell, to be forgiven.
 
peter26 said:
Well to a degree you are correct, sacramental confession is not the only way sins can be forgiven. Firstly, venial sins can be forgiven in other ways (e.g. the penitential rite at Mass). Secondly, even for mortal sins there is such a thing as perfect contrition - being truly sorry for your sins for the reason that they are offensive to God. The reasons for sacramental confession is that it lowers the bar - you only need imperfect contrition, such as fear of going to hell, to be forgiven.
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So if someone isn’t truly sorry for sins and goes for confession will the person be forgiven? And how did the church arrive at the conclusion that confession only lowers the bar and not eradicate it totally?
 
peter26 said:
Well to a degree you are correct, sacramental confession is not the only way sins can be forgiven. Firstly, venial sins can be forgiven in other ways (e.g. the penitential rite at Mass). Secondly, even for mortal sins there is such a thing as perfect contrition - being truly sorry for your sins for the reason that they are offensive to God. The reasons for sacramental confession is that it lowers the bar - you only need imperfect contrition, such as fear of going to hell, to be forgiven.
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Why can’t mortal sins be forgiven through the penitential rite?
 
I find it hard to find a distinction between mortal and venial sins. Where did the church discern this distinction?
 
fromckcc said:
I find it hard to find a distinction between mortal and venial sins. Where did the church discern this distinction?
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The immediate one is 1 John 5:16-18:
“If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly. We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.”
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This article may help. It has more information.

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/mortal-and-venial-sin
 
I don’t see how the church can claim that if one is very very sorry and contrite for sinning and also repentant that the person won’t be forgiven if he/she doesn’t go to confession. What about protestants?
 
fromckcc said:
I don’t understand how one can claim that if someone was truly sorry for his/her sins (e.g fornication) and repented totally that the person would still not be forgiven.
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The Church does not claim that. What the Church says is that, for Catholics, the ordinary (usual) way that mortal sins are forgiven is through the Sacrament of Penance. There are extraordinary ways (e.g. see Peter26’s reference to an act of Perfect Contrition) - but these exceptions are few. Again, for a Catholic, Jesus has said that the Sacrament of Penance is the ordinary method for forgiveness.
fromckcc said:
What about protestants?
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Protestants are not Catholic, therefore the Sacrament of Penance has no effect on their sins. Remember what I said about God not being bound by the Sacraments but we are? God can choose to forgive the sins of our Protestant brothers and sisters due to their invincible ignorance of His Church or through His love and mercy. They (Protestants) are not bound by our disciplines.
 
fromckcc said:
So if someone isn’t truly sorry for sins and goes for confession will the person be forgiven? And how did the church arrive at the conclusion that confession only lowers the bar and not eradicate it totally?
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The Church does not “lower the bar”. She realizes that there are extraordinary circumstances where the Sacrament of Penance may not be readily available (e.g. soldiers in battle, Catholics in hostile countries). Note that even when making an act of perfect contrition, the obligation is to go to sacramental confession as soon as possible.
 
peter26 said:
Well to a degree you are correct, sacramental confession is not the only way sins can be forgiven. Firstly, venial sins can be forgiven in other ways (e.g. the penitential rite at Mass). Secondly, even for mortal sins there is such a thing as perfect contrition - being truly sorry for your sins for the reason that they are offensive to God. The reasons for sacramental confession is that it lowers the bar - you only need imperfect contrition, such as fear of going to hell, to be forgiven.
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Even when we have Perfect Contrition, we are still, as a Catholic, obligated to go to Confession to a priest ASAP. God Bless, Memaw
 
This is how God wants it to be. I realize that is a simplistic answer.
When we confess before a priest, he absolves us in a tangible way. We actually hear the words of absolution and know for sure that we are forgiven. We receive great graces and often good advice. I don’t envy those who don’t have this Sacrament.
 
If you don’t understand why you must confess your sins to a priest, go and speak with a priest about it. Your resistance to confessing is due to your own pride and shame, I suspect. fFr some reason, you cannot imagine that Jesus gave us this sacrament and the priest says the words that come to you direct from Jesus. the priest is the conduit by reason of his sacred vows. This is the same process by which the priest is the conduit for consecrating the bread and wine that become the body and blood of Jesus himself and using the priests voice to say Jesus’ words aloud to us. Jesus instituted the sacraments to assist us all in becoming holy as this is how we can hope to spend eternity with Him. The sacrament of penance/reconciliation is a great gift that the Lord has given us. Take advantage of it.
 
TheDoctor said:
Protestants are not Catholic, therefore the Sacrament of Penance has no effect on their sins. Remember what I said about God not being bound by the Sacraments but we are? God can choose to forgive the sins of our Protestant brothers and sisters due to their invincible ignorance of His Church or through His love and mercy. They (Protestants) are not bound by our disciplines.
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I wanted to make sure this was clarified. The Sacrament of Penance, or specifically the absolution given by a priest, would have the same effect on a Protestant. Assuming the confession itself were good it would result in all sins being forgiven and the Protestant would receive sanctifying grace if it had previously been absent.

Of course Protestants will not typically be going to confession. But one example would be a convert who has been baptized. He would offer a confession before being received into the Church and receiving communion. Much more could be said about the topic and I don’t want to sidetrack the conversation. But I did want to add that clarification.
 
fromckcc said:
I have issues with the church’s stance on confession. I believe that it is a method by which God forgives our sins but I don’t believe it is the only way to be forgiven of mortal sins.
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The way sins are forgiven is that one repents…believes the Gospel and is baptized into Christ. All ones sins are washed away and one is a new creation. One is (presuming the normal way) in his Catholic Church and then lives as a Christian - living in Christ…avoiding mortal sin and growing in holiness. One is in true life.

What of those who through no fault of theirs never hear of baptism or of Jesus? Can Jesus save them? Yes in ways known to him it is possible.

What if one commits a mortal sin? Goes against their Baptism…

Jesus gave us the Sacrament of Confession to restore the person to life.

Is it possible for a person to be restored by him before getting to confession? Yes. Where there is possible an act of perfect contrition.

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition…also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible. scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1452

Is it possible for a person who was baptized but who is not in full communion with the Church and say does not know that Jesus gave us Confession to be forgiven of a mortal sin? Yes it is possible. Their intent would be to do what Jesus asks…and if they knew he wanted them to be in full communion with the Church and go to confession - they would.

God has given us the normative way - Baptism…Confession…etc . But God is not bound by the Sacraments - Jesus can work in other ways besides those he willed and gave us.

And even say in the last moments of ones life - it is still possible for God to reach one in ways we do not know or see…though we are not to presume on such but turn now to Jesus…
 
Used2beSherryG said:
If you don’t understand why you must confess your sins to a priest, go and speak with a priest about it. Your resistance to confessing is due to your own pride and shame, I suspect. fFr some reason, you cannot imagine that Jesus gave us this sacrament and the priest says the words that come to you direct from Jesus. the priest is the conduit by reason of his sacred vows. This is the same process by which the priest is the conduit for consecrating the bread and wine that become the body and blood of Jesus himself and using the priests voice to say Jesus’ words aloud to us. Jesus instituted the sacraments to assist us all in becoming holy as this is how we can hope to spend eternity with Him. The sacrament of penance/reconciliation is a great gift that the Lord has given us. Take advantage of it.
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I am currently in a state of grace-i don’t recall committing any mortal sins recently- but Jesus didn’t state that he was giving his disciples that power to forgive mortal sins because they wouldn’t be forgiven if they came to him directly. When Jesus died, the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom. This veil closed off the holy of holies which was where the tabernacle was placed. As a result of the tearing of the veil, the tabernacle was now open for all to see. Only the priest was allowed to offer atonement for sins while the veil was in place. Now the tabernacle is open for us all to adore and worship. Why then does the catholic church still insist on confession?
 
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