The Effort to Ban Divorce in California

  • Thread starter Thread starter motownmom
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
in california of all places… hahaha its great but its not going to happen, of course unless its the will of God and then only He can make it happen.

i love the line “You said till death do us part, YOU ARN’T DEAD YET!” hee hee

In the end a ban on divorce would or could hurt marriage, then people would just live in sin and not get married at all?? who knows
 
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.” (1 Timothy 4:1-3)
 
Keep in mind that there is a difference between a spiritual divorce, which is not allowed in the Catholic Church, and a secular one, which is permitted by the Catholic Church because you are still married in the eyes of the church just not in the eyes of the state.

Banning secular divorces is a very bad idea. If you are stuck in an abusive marriage, or one spouse is financially ruining the other, or one is cheating on the other, you should not be forced to legally stay married to that person. Legally you should be able to seperate your finances, lifes and such and move on. Secular divorce and separation is a legal matter for the state and it allows any particular church to handle that situation spiritually per it’s own rules etc, which is as it should be.

To ban divorce legally would actually violate the Freedom of Religon concept because many churchs do allow divorce whether Catholics like it or not. Having watch my mom go through to nasty divorces, I can safely say that forcing her legally to stay married to either my dad or my step dad would have been downright cruel, and disasterous for my sister and I to continue to live with the constant fighting and discord.

That being said I am not an advocate of divorce…it is a sin, it destroys people and families, and should never be entered into lightly. However, there are many cases where a legal, secular divorce is MORE that justified it is the right thing to do.
 
As much as I think divorce is a huge problem in this country, I could never support something like this. What about cases of abuse, physical, mental and sexual? This may just discourage people from getting married, and we would have even more cohabiting couples without the benefit of marriage.
 
mommamia said:
As much as I think divorce is a huge problem in this country, I could never support something like this. What about cases of abuse, physical, mental and sexual? This may just discourage people from getting married, and we would have even more cohabiting couples without the benefit of marriage.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, mommamia. I am against divorce, but in cases like you name, it can be a dangerous situation to remain married. I didn’t read the article, I must see this! :o
 
motownmom said:
A Sacramento man is trying to get divorce banned in California. For real. Read abou it here:

sacramento.momslikeme.com/members/JournalActions.aspx?g=190592&m=7386890
Click to expand...
I followed the links in this story to find another article. The author of this initiative may just be satirizing the “protection of marriage act” that banned gay marriage last year. news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66761&catid=2
SACRAMENTO, CA - A Sacramento man has begun a grassroots campaign to ban divorce in California.
John Marcotte, 37, has taken the first steps in the initiative process to qualify the 2010 California Marriage Protection Act for a statewide vote sometime next year.
Marcotte said he was inspired by last year’s voter-approved ban on gay marriage.
“It’s actually what I think is a logical extension of Prop 8, which was the California Marriage Protection Act. (My initiative) would protect traditional marriages by banning divorce,” he explained.
Marcotte submitted the proposed title and summary to the California Attorney General Sept. 1, and said a volunteer network is standing by to collect petition signatures once the language is formally approved.
The campaign’s web site shows a couple held together by a chain with the caption “You said 'till death do us part. You’re not dead yet.” The site has attracted so much attention Marcotte was forced to switch servers Friday following a series of crashes.
Marcotte is a satirist and commentator who has engineered a number of harmless social pranks. In 2006, he and a group of friends placed a giant pair of Groucho glasses on a statue at a Sacramento retail center.

%between%The married father of two refuses to say on the record whether the proposed divorce ban is another one of his pranks.
“It hurts that you would ask me that,” he said with just the slightest hint of a grin.
by George Warren,
Click to expand...
While the initiative may simply be satire, it has a legitimate point. Heterosexual “no-fault” divorce did great damage to marriage and the family in our country. I would favor this initiative if it did away with “no-fault” divorce. As the Church recognizes, there are sometimes serious, legitimate reasons why one spouse seeks legal separation for safety of self or children, but to divorce without a serious reason makes a mockery of marriage.
 
gardenswithkids said:
While the initiative may simply be satire, it has a legitimate point. Heterosexual “no-fault” divorce did great damage to marriage and the family in our country. I would favor this initiative if it did away with “no-fault” divorce. As the Church recognizes, there are sometimes serious, legitimate reasons why one spouse seeks legal separation for safety of self or children, but to divorce without a serious reason makes a mockery of marriage.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% - get rid of “no fault” divorce, and if there are truly legitimate reasons to get divorced, the party “at fault” is sent away with NOTHING. It may sound judgmental and mean-sprirted to some, but maybe it will make people think twice before engaging in such behavior and will at least give a structural support to marriage.
 
gardenswithkids said:
While the initiative may simply be satire, it has a legitimate point. Heterosexual “no-fault” divorce did great damage to marriage and the family in our country. I would favor this initiative if it did away with “no-fault” divorce. As the Church recognizes, there are sometimes serious, legitimate reasons why one spouse seeks legal separation for safety of self or children, but to divorce without a serious reason makes a mockery of marriage.
Click to expand...
I agree except I would add that divorce even with a serious reason makes a mockery of marriage. Marriage is in good times and in bad until death do you part. no exceptions. There are legal ways to protect one spouse in cases where the marriage is abusive without legal divorce.
 
i dont agree with divorce, but one of GODS greatest gifts is free will. Do good and avoid evil
 
Tosk said:
I agree except I would add that divorce even with a serious reason makes a mockery of marriage. Marriage is in good times and in bad until death do you part. no exceptions. There are legal ways to protect one spouse in cases where the marriage is abusive without legal divorce.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, you might not have ever known someone who was truly afraid for their life in an abusive marriage or maybe married a man/woman who abused the kids. Being punched and beaten down is not the definition of ‘‘bad’’ in the vows. The vows don’t say…’‘in safe times and in danger…when you beat me to a pulp…I’ll still stay.’’ I agree we have a major divorce problem in our world, today, and marriage seems to be mocked. Being married shouldn’t mean however, a person loses their right to safety, and freedom. Marriage isn’t a death sentence, or a prison. 😦
 
whatevergirl said:
With all due respect, you might not have ever known someone who was truly afraid for their life in an abusive marriage or maybe married a man/woman who abused the kids. Being punched and beaten down is not the definition of ‘‘bad’’ in the vows. The vows don’t say…’‘in safe times and in danger…when you beat me to a pulp…I’ll still stay.’’ I agree we have a major divorce problem in our world, today, and marriage seems to be mocked. Being married shouldn’t mean however, a person loses their right to safety, and freedom. Marriage isn’t a death sentence, or a prison. 😦
Click to expand...
nobody should stay in an abusive relationship or put their life in danger but once you are married it really is for life. There are circumstances where legal separation is allowed but that wouldn’t be the same as divorce and remarriage. I don’t really see how that would make marriage a prison or a death sentence. The catholic teaching on divorce is just obvious from the very nature of marriage. nothing cruel about it.
 
Tosk said:
nobody should stay in an abusive relationship or put their life in danger but once you are married it really is for life. There are circumstances where legal separation is allowed but that wouldn’t be the same as divorce and remarriage. I don’t really see how that would make marriage a prison or a death sentence. The catholic teaching on divorce is just obvious from the very nature of marriage. nothing cruel about it.
Click to expand...
*So, you think that a woman who is abused, let’s say, could stay forever married to her abuser, and that’s the end of it? Get a restraining order? Just…move in with her parents, then? The abused woman isn’t entitled to seeing if the marriage is valid to begin with, and possibly entitled to living fear free from her ‘‘husband?’’ My view of marriage might be different, but we are all loved by God, and marriage is a gift, not designed to hold people in bondage. If you read some posts on here from women who were abused, and feared for their lives…they were dying a slow death. That’s marriage?😦 *
 
whatevergirl said:
*So, you think that a woman who is abused, let’s say, could stay forever married to her abuser, and that’s the end of it? Get a restraining order? Just…move in with her parents, then? The abused woman isn’t entitled to seeing if the marriage is valid to begin with, and possibly entitled to living fear free from her ‘‘husband?’’ My view of marriage might be different, but we are all loved by God, and marriage is a gift, not designed to hold people in bondage. If you read some posts on here from women who were abused, and feared for their lives…they were dying a slow death. That’s marriage?😦 *
Click to expand...
no, I didn’t say any of that but there are other ways to protect woman’s rights other than legal divorce. I happen to think that the gay rights proponents have a point: legal divorce affects the dignity of marriage more than gay marriage. At least with gay marriage it is obviously a really really bad joke but many people take divorce and remarriage very seriously and agree to play along.
 
Tosk, it seems obvious you’ve never been in an abusive marriage. You seem to think the law can protect a wife and kids and still link them legally to an abuser. Without divorce, the wife has no recourse to property settlements, she remains financially under someone who may abuse her financially and withhold funds, and she has no recourse to seeing if the Church would grant a petition of nullity. (Even the Catholic Church realizes that some such “marriages” never were real marriages at all. But under your rules no one would ever be able to have it investigated.)

I assure you, no one I know who has been through a divorce took it lightly. I agree no-fault divorce has ruined marriage’s reputation. But the answer to that isn’t to link someone to another person legally and financially till death do they part, a death sometimes that is hastened by one of the parties.

Legal separation is legal limbo. You can’t move forward, you can’t move back. You may live in separate houses, but there is no real severance of all the ties that can literally choke someone. Would you want to be in a business partnership with someone who hates you and cheats you and doesn’t have your best interests at heart from now till one of you dies?

This would be worse, and it’s made worse when children are involved.

We won’t even discuss the whole sex thing and serial cheats and AIDS and other diseases and how unfair it is to keep someone married to someone who puts their life in jeopardy that way.
 
Tosk, The Catholic church if I’m not mistaken requires a legal annulment, or divorce to start the annulment process.

Second legally divorcing someone is the ONLY way to divide financial matters and credit scores permenantly. I know this because that is why my mom finally divorced my step dad. They hadn’t been in love for years and had stuck it out for my sister and to attempt to preserve our family. However, when my mom found out about all the personal credit cards (including ones in my sister’s and my names) he had that he was running up debt on to keep his company afloat, she asked him to sign paperwork protecting her and the kids from the debt…he refused and served her with divorce papers, thinking he would get half the marital assets and her personal assets which she had primarily been paying for for the last 10 years. During the divorce we realized that the legal papers wouldn’t have done any good anyway. My mom ended up on the hook for $300,000.00 of his debt… which was only about 1/3 of what he had run up. If she had stayed married to him… who knows what would have happened. She would probably be broke right now. He even tried to come after my condo which my mother had cosigned on the loan for. (One and only time being upside down in a loan was a good thing, I basically told him he could pay a quarter of the mortgage if he wanted to.)

So there was no abuse physically but things got pretty bad, and my step dad was abusing the situation finacially. My stepdad was just hoping he could continue to ride on my successful mom’s coat tails and not have to actually be responsilble for himself. Forcing someone to stay married to some who is abusing them in anyway is wrong.

That being said I am not a fan of frivolous divorces. I think people hop in and out of marriages way to quickly without enough thought going in, and without putting any real effort into trying to fix things before jumping out. I would like to see churches and other social institutions work harder at portraying marriage in a real and positive light, and highlighting how it is work, but it is also a great blessing. However, I would hate to see the governement get involved in trying to determine what is an OK reason to divorce and what is not. Government just further complicates and screws up anything it gets involved in.
 
mommamia said:
As much as I think divorce is a huge problem in this country, I could never support something like this. What about cases of abuse, physical, mental and sexual? This may just discourage people from getting married, and we would have even more cohabiting couples without the benefit of marriage.
Click to expand...
I couldn’t agree with this more!
 
in countries where divorce is illegal, mostly due the influence of the catholic church btw, people are still able to get annulments. Legal divorce isn’t an absolute requirement to get an annulment. I think that we should have legal separation like divorce, except without the ability to remarry. I think that is what the church’s opinion is on the matter since they don’t actually recognize secular divorce. It would also be difficult to square divorce and remarriage with the teaching of Jesus on divorce since he says as clear as day divorce is not permitted. If anybody can show differently I will change my opinion.
 
*Thought this was a good website on annulments, and how the Church understands that sometimes, we enter into marriages falsely. Tosk, I am with you that divorce is a bad thing, but sometimes, people should never have entered the marriage the begin with. The Church doesn’t recognize "second marriages,’’ but one is free to marry again if the Church declares the marriage to be invalid. If a person wishes to remarry, he/she also needs to obtain a divorce, civilly…because polygamy is illegal. I have always considered the annulment process to be one of extreme compassion and understanding by Our Church, in looking at if a marriage was valid to begin with, in the eyes of God. You and I can’t be the judge of such things. *

frpat.com/annulments.htm
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top