The elite super wealthy and social justice

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Do the super wealthy, those worth hundrends of millions or billions of dollars have a greater role in working to assist the world in achieving social justice than the rest of us?l
I think the issue with the Super-rich is how they get and stay that way and it’s not making good stock investments. No one gets super-rich in the 1st place without a lot of people on the bottom suffering.

If they cared about social justice, they wouldn’t be the super-rich.
 
As individuals, even the “super rich” are entitled to thier privacy, don’t you think? For every person who’s donations are well-known, there are probably dozens who donate quietly.

You may not mean it this way but statements like

sound like investigative reporting into something that is not anyone’s business. IF the person chooses to avail him/herself of a tax deduction for the charitable giving, it’s the business of the IRS but I don’t see any other reason why such information would be shared, let alone “made available to the public”.
I certainly had no intentions of scrutinizing anyone who is Catholic. My intention was to open up a discussion about what people’s thoughts were on any possible obligation the super wealthy (again, I"m talking about people worth hundreds of millions) have towards charity.

If your opinion is “it’s their personal business” then so be it.

I happen to be of the opinon that people worth hundreds of millions, or billions of dollars are in positions with potentially considerable influence over society. That may be with money or simply via the platform they can have based on their wealth and power.

I’m also curious to know if people think that if a person where Catholic and super rich and choose to be very outspoken in public about their faith and their belief whether or not it would help, hurt, or have no effect on their future ability to egage in profitible business dealings with other super rich people. In other words, would someone who could, because of their wealth and power, begin being outspoken about their faith and evangelize regularly on a national stage, evoke negativity within a circle of super elite wealthy individuals?

There seems to be a lot of backlash that I witness or hear about towards Catholics of no real wealth or power, and in public around schools and other things. Would the same thing happen to a Catholic who held a position of enourmous power and influence, or may be extremely wealthy but not really be in the public eye… but choose to put themselves there and be able to because of their wealth…would there be backlash against such an individual, would there be a positive reaction (not among Catholics but among the public and especially people in positions of power and influence) or would there be no effect ‘in public’ (i.e. on the news, with people he may do business with but wasn’t evangelizing prior, etc)?

God Bless,
Bill
 
The Church expects all her members to provide for the Church itself and for the less fortunate according to their means. She does not specify an amount, like the Old Testament tithe, because some may be able to part with far less than ten percent, and others considerably more. So, while I doubt there will ever be a binding rule, Catholics of extreme wealth are likely supposed to be giving far more than ten or twenty percent to some combination of Church and charity.

Usagi
Usagi,
Thanks for a post that did not have, let me say, emotional type content that was less than tranquil.

God Bless,
Bill
 
I think the issue with the Super-rich is how they get and stay that way and it’s not making good stock investments. No one gets super-rich in the 1st place without a lot of people on the bottom suffering.

If they cared about social justice, they wouldn’t be the super-rich.
The rich in society provides jobs, promotions , pay raises , high standard of life etc that greatly improves lives of others. Ever asked a bum on the street for a ham sandwich??

Being rich is of value that is why we have sooooo many wonderful catholic churches throughout the world.

Never covet thy neighbors wealth.
 
His father died when he was very young. He grew up mostly in an orphanage in Michigan. He was greatly influenced by the sisters who ran the orphange. He considered the priesthood and served in the military. After the military, while a student at Michigan, he and his brother borrowed money to start a pizza business. The pizza business is Dominos. He lived pretty well with his Dominos income but then became more serious about his faith, got rid of a lot of his possessions, built a chapel in his house and (reportedly) joined Opus Dei.

Fast forward, He sold Dominos for around a billion dollars, started the Ave Maria Foundation with a good chunk of the money. The foundation’s resources are targeted at aleviating poverty - especially in Latin America. He also started Legatus, which is a group of rich Catholics who use thier money to support the Church. He started Ave Maria Radio, the Thomas Moore Law Center and eventually Ave Maria University.

He has publically promised to spend all of whatever remains of the $1B on other charitable causes.
Corki,
Thanks very much for taking the time to tell me about this man. He sounds like not only a wonderful example of what faith can do for a person, but in particular since he grew up in an orphanage it makes his story all the more admirable. I’m going to save the info from your post so I can look into the foundation that he started, Legatus, and the other things mentioned in your post.

God Bless,
Bill
 
The rich in society provides jobs, promotions , pay raises , high standard of life etc that greatly improves lives of others. Ever asked a bum on the street for a ham sandwich??

Being rich is of value that is why we have sooooo many wonderful catholic churches throughout the world.

Never covet thy neighbors wealth.
Bismark,

Do you think that government helps, hinders, or has no effect on this and why?

God Bless,
Bill
 
I think the issue with the Super-rich is how they get and stay that way and it’s not making good stock investments. No one gets super-rich in the 1st place without a lot of people on the bottom suffering.

If they cared about social justice, they wouldn’t be the super-rich.
Soooooo…you think it’s immoral to sell pizza? Just because a person is extremely wealthy does not make them evil.
 
I think the issue with the Super-rich is how they get and stay that way and it’s not making good stock investments. No one gets super-rich in the 1st place without a lot of people on the bottom suffering.

If they cared about social justice, they wouldn’t be the super-rich.
This sounds like the talk of a bitter poor person. Seriously though there are definitely people that start companies and become very rich without hurting people on the bottom.
 
Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if any of the extremely wealthy are in fact Catholic and if what they do with their money is made available to the public?
I have a feeling this might be the line that set many people off. Some might have perceived it as type of witch-hunt, where rich people would face pressure from those of us who aren’t rich.
 
Mark 12: 41-44
And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
 
I think the issue with the Super-rich is how they get and stay that way and it’s not making good stock investments. No one gets super-rich in the 1st place without a lot of people on the bottom suffering.

If they cared about social justice, they wouldn’t be the super-rich.
I’m curious about more of your thoughts in this regard. Certainly there are some people ‘born’ rich, they can’t be held accountable for the acts of those whose wealth the inherited, can they?

How, specifically, do you think that the average person who gets super rich actually gets super rich? And could you expand upon your statement about ‘without a lot of people on the bottom suffering’?

I won’t disagree with you that if the super rich cared about social justice they wouldn’t be super rich. I think there are a lot of productive ways to use money to assist people in ‘learning how to fish’. And while these endeavors may not be financially profitiable, they most certainly can be internally rewarding.

I have worked in a program where people came from homeless shelters and prison and went on to get jobs and pay rent and be productive members of society. The people needed to be ‘hand picked’ out of several applicants, as they had to be willing to put forth real effort, and continuous effort, to make and sustain changes in the way they lived their lives…but it was nice to work in a program where dozens and dozens of men went from being drug addicts and/or alcholics as well as homeless and/or incarcerated to being clean and sober, getting and keeping jobs, and moving out into the world living in their own apartments, paying taxes, contributing to society through charity (in the form of personal sweat work, few had anything that could be considered financial ‘means’).

So I have seen, and been part of a process, where people made dramatic changes in their lives. They were required to pay rent while there, follow a set of rules, attend counseling, etc and some of these folks had more than a decade of being in and out of prison. A couple did 20 years in prison straight.

If I had wealth I would most certainly love to open up programs under the type of model of program I worked for in order to give people a ‘hand UP’ rather than a hand out. And teach men who never learned how to fish, how to fish… so they could go out into life and sustain themselves.

There are many in need in this country and others. It makes me greatful to know that such programs exist, and to have been part of such a program. Not every human can be saved. The world is not perfect. But with increased cooperation between people who truely care about their neighbors, who truely care about those in need, great things are possible.

It is my hope that more individuals learn to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, to learn to love their neighbors as themselves, and look for ways to give their neighbors a ‘hand UP’ as there are many looking for a hand up and not a hand out. And many looking for handouts are only doing so because they have been condtioned to do so by government through multi generational welfare. I don’t blame, or hold in contempt, people who live lives they were taught to live on a daily basis by their parents and grandparents.

It would be nice if they somehow instantly got a strong work ethic. But as a realist I do not think it’s reasonable to expect that to happen. And I am certainly not going to look down on my neighbor who shows up to collect $100 bills from a government that freely hands out $100 bills and has handed them out to those people’s parents and grandparents, essentially engraining in them that this is the way to live life.

That attitude can be changed. But it takes a concerted effort by those who truely care enough to get involved.
 
But for the super elite, super wealthy, they do not really ‘work’ for a living, earning ‘income’ in the traditional sense of the word.
You’ve read about how Domino’s began, and you probably know that Bill Gates (or was it Steve Jobs?) started as a college dropout, coding operating systems in their family’s garage.

The idea that the rich “do not really ‘work’ for a living” is an ignorant one. And the idea that they build their backs on the suffering of the poor is generally untrue.

As a friend of mine says, “The rich get rich because they keep doing what makes them rich; the same thing applies to the poor.”

No, I’m not saying that the poor deserve to be poor; just that they have made bad choices. And, yes, there are poor people who have no way out, through no fault of their own.

Here’s what we’re called to do:
Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40 And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’
Matt 25:37-40 (RSV)
May God bless you in your search for knowledge!
 
I have a feeling this might be the line that set many people off. Some might have perceived it as type of witch-hunt, where rich people would face pressure from those of us who aren’t rich.
Very possibly. And if I somehow mislead people by my OP I apologize. But I suggest that people consider asking questions about what I might have meant rather than reacting to one sentence in a several paragraph post in the future. I am the enemy of no man.

As I said in a follow up post, the reason I referred to Catholics and people of other religions is that I presume that they come from a place where some sort of charitible activity is encouraged whereas athiests (athough they may individually come from such a place) do not as part of their ‘clan’ or what have you.

And there is plenty in my post about speaking of the uber wealthy. Even if I did care to study how much super rich Catholics give, what difference does that make in the grand sceme of things?

In fact all I was trying to do was start a dialouge about how the uber rich elite behave, including how they behave with their money. This is a bad thing?

People pick apart the homeless and such and I suggest taking a look a billionaires and people get up in arms about it…on a Catholic Website? I would think, if anything, the opposite would be true!
 
The more I read this thread its amazing the accuracy of the homily we had a few weeks back about not coveting they neighbors wealth. We should give which is biblical, but not take which is about robinhood.

God bless this poster finding peace in his life and realize wealth is more than dollars and materials,… its about peace, heart and love in following Christ.
 
How about if this forum is renamed:

Social Justice/ NO talk about billionaires possibly contributing to charity?

Peace,
Bill
 
T but not take which is about robinhood.

God bless this poster finding peace in his life and realize wealth is more than dollars and materials,… its about peace, heart and love in following Christ.
Excuse me sir;

But please point out where I suggested ‘taking’ anything from anyone. Otherwise I ask you formally retract that statement.

And since your ‘blessing’ is following a false presumption, I find it misplaced.

But I do thank you nontheless as I seek to find as much peace as possible.

However any assumption you have of me about wealth being equated to money is misplaced.

Moreover, since you are making assumptions about me based on this one thread alone, and not the many, many posts I have made in other threads, I suggest that you may find yourself out of order if you go read all my posts, reflect upon them all in total… possibly ask me a few questions… and then make a decision who I might be and where I might be coming from as far as my relationship to Jesus Christ.

But again, thank you for your blessing. I appreciate it and feel it is always good to be passed along a blessing so long as it is genuine and heartfelt. I will assume that since you have not read my many other posts and are passing judgement on me based on my OP in this thread, that it is in fact heartfelt and honest.

I also wish for you to learn to be more openminded and find within your heart the ability to not so quickly pass judgement upon those whom you know so little about.

Peace be with you.
God Bless,
Bill
 
You’ve read about how Domino’s began, and you probably know that Bill Gates (or was it Steve Jobs?) started as a college dropout, coding operating systems in their family’s garage.

The idea that the rich “do not really ‘work’ for a living” is an ignorant one. And the idea that they build their backs on the suffering of the poor is generally untrue.

As a friend of mine says, “The rich get rich because they keep doing what makes them rich; the same thing applies to the poor.”

No, I’m not saying that the poor deserve to be poor; just that they have made bad choices. And, yes, there are poor people who have no way out, through no fault of their own.

Here’s what we’re called to do:

May God bless you in your search for knowledge!
In the future I would ask that you not include in your quotes the actual people who made the statements you are quoting. You have essentially quoted from at least 2 posters here, and since pretty much all of the replies are directed toward me, I find it objectionable for you to do such a thing. Please in the future either refrain from mixing quotes without attributing to whom the quotes (or restating of parts of people’s posts essentially word for word, which is the same thing) came from.

Also, As far as those worth 500 million or so and up, in the context of ‘work’ what I meant was working in the context of being subject to ‘income taxes’ FYI I also provided an example of a person’s wealth increasing by x million but drawing a much smaller ammt as income as an example.

God Bless,
Bill
 
I personally think that the topic of this thread is fascinating. And part of the OP, asking about our opinions on what the rich should give, is rather relevant and not necessarily about jealousy; after all, any of us could, hypothetically, become uber rich one day, and such people might want to know–in that case–how to use their money in a Christian way. So there is nothing wrong with asking such a question.

Framed in a different way, consider the following question: If YOU (as in whomever the reader may be) were uber rich, would you still believe, personally and after a devout examination of conscience, that the suggestion of the Church to tithe 5% to 10% of your income/wealth applied to you? If you had 10 billion dollars, would you think that you should ideally donate 1 billion to Church/Charity just as much as you might donate $50 out of your weekly $500 check (if you could afford to do so and still pay for your necessities, of course) if you were a financially average Joe?

Does being uber-rich make you an exception? If so, why? e.g. Do you think “Well God couldn’t expect me to give 5%-10% of my income if it would be that much money!”? Conversely, does being uber-rich obligate you to spend far more on Church/Charity? If so, why? e.g. Do you think “Well, I can afford to give 98% of my income to charity/Church and still have a reasonable livelihood, so that’s what I’m obligated to give.”? What are your thoughts?

I’m not suggesting any answers myself, in this particular post. I am genuinely curious as to the answers of others (not least of all because I am honestly interested in the dynamics of wealth and being a good Catholic, and haven’t got any concrete answers myself), and this thread seems like it could potentially be a forum for that.

If anyone thinks this should be a totally new topic, I could start a new one and copy and paste this. 🙂

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul
 
I have a feeling this might be the line that set many people off. Some might have perceived it as type of witch-hunt, where rich people would face pressure from those of us who aren’t rich.
Actually, the more i think about it, I don’t think that’s it at all. I think it’s pretty impossible for random average people to successfully access the financial records of billionaires.

I do now have a suspicion as to why some people have become quite upset.

It was not my intention to offend anyone here, nor was it my intention to call into question the hearts, minds, or actions of any posters or members here. I could post more but I think that is reasonable since I intended to offend no one.

Also, I hope that you may be able to let go of the negative feelings which are perplexing you and that you find peace.

Peace be with you all,
Bill
 
Actually, the more i think about it, I don’t think that’s it at all. I think it’s pretty impossible for random average people to successfully access the financial records of billionaires.

I do now have a suspicion as to why some people have become quite upset.

It was not my intention to offend anyone here, nor was it my intention to call into question the hearts, minds, or actions of any posters or members here. I could post more but I think that is reasonable since I intended to offend no one.

Also, I hope that you may be able to let go of the negative feelings which are perplexing you and that you find peace.

Peace be with you all,
Bill
its pretty hard to get the financial records of poor people also,as it should be.
 
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