The elixir of life

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Lee1 said:
Do you think that we have as a society become so used to luxuries and instant gratification that we have weakened our abilities to practise the level of self discipline necessary to be good Christians? And perhaps specifically good Catholics?
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I suggest @Lee1 that this “season” we are in now , Advent/Christmastide , is a perfect symbol of where we go wrong .

I remember when I was younger , going back 60 years and more , there was then a campaign to “Put Christ Back into Christmas” .

The campaign still goes on , but we tend to give up , accept things as they are and go with the flow .

At Christmas in 1998 Cardinal Hume said “What is there in that for me ? That is a very modern question, a self-regarding view from persons absorbed in self.”

BBC News | UK | Hume: Put Christ back into Christmas

Jesus said that a necessity for one following Him was self denial .

“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."

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I wonder if it has more to do with skepticism, lack of evidence and lack of relevance for right here and now. Our culture is fast food sound byte immediate gratification. Heaven for many is pie in the sky fantasy even though they might still go to church with family. I think the life and mission of Jesus were just as much about the quality of our lives now here on earth as about anything eternal. So evangelization needs to show the evidence of a higher quality of life here and now.
 
Yes. And the lives of saints are an inspiration for spiritual growth.
 
I agree, very much so. If you imagine a world where the precepts of our faith are applied and acted upon we would have a less stressful and peaceful world in which to live …right now, today.

Since we can’t have instant gratification concerning the highest matierial wants it would make far more sense to adopt a less demanding philosophy. Doing that may actually mean that more people have their most basic needs satisfied since you could imagine resources being spread more evenly in the world.

I suppose it will take a miracle to convince enough people to abandon their materialistic aspirations. We can’t prove that heaven exists but we can surely show evidence of the greater physical and mental health to be gained from living as a Christian and as a Catholic, perhaps? I wonder if there have been any studies on such a thing.
 
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Definately, I’m wondering if apart from saints whether we can gain inspriation from the lives of modern living monks, nuns and religious? Perhaps also from the lives of good Catholics, the laity who have found a peaceful and healthier way to live with God today?
 
Yes. Like St Paul said: ‘test everything, then hold on to what is good.’
 
We have many Indian and Philippino parishioners too I love our rainbow church xx
 
Hi! Some of the things you all are writing about reminds me of some of the things that St. Augustine talks about in his “Confessions.” Not much has changed in the last 1000 or so years. Anyway, when I first posted I mentioned that I am a new Catholic and have much to learn. When I was in RCIA in 2014 -2015 as a catechumen, I learned a little about Vatican II. My understanding was that the purpose of Vatican II was to clean up the church because as it spread across the world it became more complicated and looked less like the church that was set up by Christ. So, is what you call the “spirit of Vatican II” different than what the reality of Vatican II was meant to be? I would appreciate your wisdom on the matter. Thanks!
 
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I’m wondering if I’ve made myself clear, I think perhaps I haven’t. When I’m talking about beliefs not being real I’m not talking about Catholicism or Christianity I’m referring to our societal beliefs, what secular people think of as the point of life, if they have any point of life at all.

Aspirations regarding material gain etc.

That may explain why I haven’t received many posts on this topic!

I did say belief in the real elixir of life.
 
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It’s going to be a tough sell as the efficacy can only be shown after the first death. Plus, not all of us want to live forever
 
Lee1 said:
I’m wondering if I’ve made myself clear, I think perhaps I haven’t. When I’m talking about beliefs not being real I’m not talking about Catholicism or Christianity I’m referring to our societal beliefs, what secular people think of as the point of life, if they have any point of life at all.

Aspirations regarding material gain etc.

That may explain why I haven’t received many posts on this topic!

I did say belief in the real elixir of life.
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Mathew 6
24 No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
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Thank you Vico

I agree with the verse but could you explain a little

In what way are you using it to say something?
 
Lee1 said:
Thank you Vico

I agree with the verse but could you explain a little

In what way are you using it to say something?
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If is an answer to your question: “why should it be so hard to ‘sell’ belief in the real ‘elixir’ of life?” because that is of God and what is commonly sold is of mammon (riches).
 
I agree and it’s easy to see why some people are more interested in riches because they are of this material world and so are the riches.

If they believed In the existence of the spiritual world and in particular of the dimensions we are told exist, heaven, purgatory and hell, then it would be a ‘product’ which sells itself. It would need no selling since adopting Christianity and most particularly Catholicism would be an obvious solution to an obvious problem, that is salvation of the soul and eternal life in the presence of God.

On our product packaging then we need some detail about the contents. If I believed in the spirit, mine, others, the Holy Spirit I would be incentivised I think?

(NB. I already believe, I’m referring to those potential customers who don’t)
 
Lee1 said:
I agree and it’s easy to see why some people are more interested in riches because they are of this material world and so are the riches.

If they believed In the existence of the spiritual world and in particular of the dimensions we are told exist, heaven, purgatory and hell, then it would be a ‘product’ which sells itself. It would need no selling since adopting Christianity and most particularly Catholicism would be an obvious solution to an obvious problem, that is salvation of the soul and eternal life in the presence of God.

On our product packaging then we need some detail about the contents. If I believed in the spirit, mine, others, the Holy Spirit I would be incentivised I think?

(NB. I already believe, I’m referring to those potential customers who don’t)
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I remember The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19) which contains this, Dives is speaking in Hades asking Abraham to send Lazarus:
27 He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ 30 He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”
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Also we read in Mark 10 of the great reward and the material sacrifices that precede the reward:
29 Jesus said, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for my sake and for the sake of the gospel 30 who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age: houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come.
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Luke 16:19 is one of my favorite passages. I think it is too often overlooked.
 
I’m struggling to find an answer to my original question.
People won’t listen to the scriptures.
People won’t be given signs, individually given signs and shouldn’t ask for them.
People won’t be visited by apparitions of their dead relatives.
In short no proof should be asked for or given?

No wonder so many walk past the elixir without buying. And of those who do, are they just naturally inclined to do so?
 
“And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the middle, and said, Peace be to you . Then said he to Thomas, Reach here your finger, and behold my hands; and reach here your hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed ” (John 20:26-29).
 
Lee1 said:
I’m struggling to find an answer to my original question.
People won’t listen to the scriptures.
People won’t be given signs, individually given signs and shouldn’t ask for them.
People won’t be visited by apparitions of their dead relatives.
In short no proof should be asked for or given?

No wonder so many walk past the elixir without buying. And of those who do, are they just naturally inclined to do so?
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Evangeliszation and Catechesis
http://www.usccb.org/about/evangelization-and-catechesis/
A Christian life lived with faith and charity is the most effective form of evangelization and in itself
serves as a powerful catechesis. Personal testimony and witness to God’s unfailing mercy in the
catechist’s life and ministry holds the power to be transformative in the lives of others. Catechists,
who are dedicated disciples of Jesus Christ, provide a powerful and compelling witness to the Gospel
as missionary disciples.
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...7-571-missionary-disciples-ndc-worksheets.pdf
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