The end of Protestantism

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aidanbradypop said:
You asked for proof and I just asked you for proof. He said Tradition and Im sure you will state Tradition as well to answer my question. Correct?
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Incorrect. Anti-Catholicism is alive and well here; promoted by Protestants.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Ok. So how does one prove the assumption and sinlessness of Mary then Denise?

And this thread is not anti Protestantism?
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I’m calling one poster out for telling a lie about a Catholic, which to you is problematic. I’m not going to respond to your anti-Catholic views any longer.
 
Denise1957 said:
I’m calling one poster out for telling a lie about a Catholic, to you problematic. I’m not going to respond to your anti-Catholic views any longer.
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:confused:

Ok have a great day and thank you for answering my question.

God’s blessings to you
 
Denise1957 said:
It has nothing to do with Luther. You said that Tetzel went around saying that “jingle.” No proof at all that he said it.
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Based on historical evidence and the testimony of contemporaries, it seems likely to me that Tetzel said this jingle. I’m basing myself on Derek Wilson’s biography, Luther: Out of the Storm (Fortress Press, 2007). Wilson is the historian, not me.
 
I look forward to the day that all heresy (not material heretics) will die. Probably at the judgment of Jesus, realistically though.
 
This is so amazing. Did you know that Catholics can go against Church teaching and it has NOTHING to do with actual Church teaching? Instead of saying so-and-so did blah, blah, blah. “say hmmmm what does the church actually teach?” Makes life So. Freaking. Simple.

:twocents:
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
This is so amazing. Did you know that Catholics can go against Church teaching and it has NOTHING to do with actual Church teaching? Instead of saying so-and-so did blah, blah, blah. “say hmmmm what does the church actually teach?” Makes life So. Freaking. Simple.

:twocents:
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I would go one step further. Confessionalism or nothing if you truly believe the One True Apostolic and Holy Catholic Church is protected by the Holy Spirit. I would argue that the protection given to a body is exclusive to the Church. Individual Protestants do get protection from god but their lie promulgating institutions do not.

There is no such thing as a “cafeteria Catholic.” You are simply a formal heretic at that point.

True Ecumenism does not seek to acknowledge the grain of truth in a heresy (A heresy contains some truth or else it would not be appealing). You shake the material heretics from their very core and induce a paradigm shift.

You can try that with formal heretics (Luther and Calvin go here) but they are most likely to be damned.

Damnation is taken freely by those who corrupt the truth.
 
WT1 said:
  1. “Reason+Tradition+Scripture” does not meet my definition of Authority.
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:confused:
Do you think that there is any reason why it should? We’re not Catholic; we’re Anglican.
Where is the leadership, the catechism, the law or true authority to interpret the scriptures.
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The leadership is in the modelling of admitting the limits of human knowledge, the catechism is in the Book of Common Prayer, canon law governs what the church can and cannot do, and true authority to interpret the Scriptures is vested in any and every person capable of understanding them, under the consideration that the person may or may not be the one whom others expect to understand them.

If we were the same as Catholics, we would be Catholics. We aren’t.
If two Anglican priest disagree who decides who is correct?
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History, mostly, just as in any other field of scholarship.
 
FJBSJ said:
I would go one step further. Confessionalism or nothing if you truly believe the One True Apostolic and Holy Catholic Church is protected by the Holy Spirit. I would argue that the protection given to a body is exclusive to the Church. Individual Protestants do get protection from god but their lie promulgating institutions do not.

True Ecumenism does not seek to acknowledge the grain of truth in a heresy (A heresy contains some truth or else it would not be appealing). You shake the material heretics from their very core and induce a paradigm shift.

**You can try that with formal heretics (Luther and Calvin go here) but they are most likely to be damned.

Damnation is taken freely by those who corrupt the truth**.
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Wow! That’s a serious statement. I don’t know much about Calvin but what I do know about Luther is that he seriously did not want to break off from the church - there was a lot of stuff happening on both sides of the table during that era. Of course, I’m a Lutheran (at this time) and I would stand up for him…I don’t agree with all the things Luther wrote and there are some from that I would have issues with from that time onward but isn’t that God’s job to decide who is or who is not damned?

I hope we can leave this and begin to work on forgiveness and move on…if we continue to hold on to anger toward others we lose the basic reality of why Jesus came and suffered so badly on that cross for each and every one of us. I know that I have to work on this, myself because I allow myself to get caught up in the sins of the world and forget why Jesus came to walk on this earth for us.

God bless!!

Rita
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
This is so amazing. Did you know that Catholics can go against Church teaching and it has NOTHING to do with actual Church teaching? Instead of saying so-and-so did blah, blah, blah. “say hmmmm what does the church actually teach?” Makes life So. Freaking. Simple.

:twocents:
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Thank you! Sometimes I really feel like I’m the only one who realizes how, as you say, amazing it is.

But I also want to be careful to be fair: I imagine that, just as Protestants are always saying “I read such-and-such on catholic.com [or catholic.org or whatever] so it must be The Catholic Position”, that there are also some Catholics who are always saying “I read such-and-such on protestant.com [or protestant.org or whatever] so it must be The Protestant Position.” :cool:
 
spedteacherita said:
Wow! That’s a serious statement. I don’t know much about Calvin but what I do know about Luther is that he seriously did not want to break off from the church - there was a lot of stuff happening on both sides of the table during that era. Of course, I’m a Lutheran (at this time) and I would stand up for him…I don’t agree with all the things Luther wrote and there are some from that I would have issues with from that time onward but isn’t that God’s job to decide who is or who is not damned?

I hope we can leave this and begin to work on forgiveness and move on…if we continue to hold on to anger toward others we lose the basic reality of why Jesus came and suffered so badly on that cross for each and every one of us. I know that I have to work on this, myself because I allow myself to get caught up in the sins of the world and forget why Jesus came to walk on this earth for us.

God bless!!

Rita
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Believing that the Catholic Church is the true Church and denying any truth it professes is formal heresy.

Confessionalism or nothing.

This is because you know what the truth is because of the authority but you deny its statements, and thus attempt to negate the very truth you affirm.

I do not claim to know damnation with certainty but analysis of an individuals life allows a well-informed opinion.
 
FJBSJ said:
Believing that the Catholic Church is the true Church and denying any truth it professes is formal heresy.

Confessionalism or nothing.

This is because you know what the truth is because of the authority but you deny its statements, and thus attempt to negate the very truth you affirm.

I do not claim to know damnation with certainty but analysis of an individuals life allows a well-informed opinion.
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Here would be the traditional view of Lutheranism on the errors of the papacy: iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/concord/web/smc-02d.html
I don’t think that it’s the soul of Dr. Luther we need be concerned about.
 
Peter_J said:
Thank you! Sometimes I really feel like I’m the only one who realizes how, as you say, amazing it is.

But I also want to be careful to be fair: I imagine that, just as Protestants are always saying “I read such-and-such on catholic.com [or catholic.org or whatever] so it must be The Catholic Position”, that there are also some Catholics who are always saying “I read such-and-such on protestant.com [or protestant.org or whatever] so it must be The Protestant Position.” :cool:
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Maybe this is too brutally honest, but I don’t care to go to protestant sites to see what they believe. When I decided to find my own church I made a list of churches, when I had a problem with something they did, I marked them off the list. I stumbled upon a catholic scripture site (because Catholics don’t follow scripture:rolleyes:) and I literally read the whole thing. Scripture references and quotes from early church fathers in the site and I’ve never looked back. Nothing gave me a gut feeling to flee and it all made sense. Growing up, Christianity didn’t make sense. So, this chica doesn’t worry about protestant denominations.
 
Mystophilus said:
:confused:
Do you think that there is any reason why it should? We’re not Catholic; we’re Anglican.

The leadership is in the modelling of admitting the limits of human knowledge, the catechism is in the Book of Common Prayer, canon law governs what the church can and cannot do, and true authority to interpret the Scriptures is vested in any and every person capable of understanding them, under the consideration that the person may or may not be the one whom others expect to understand them.

If we were the same as Catholics, we would be Catholics. We aren’t.

History, mostly, just as in any other field of scholarship.
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I think that Catholics react that way often because your explanation is ultimately the root of the fruit of relativism in our age. True interpretation, in your view, is based on the individual, and when individuals disagree, who or what is the judge to find who is right? Since Protestants deny any ontologically higher method of finding Truth, there is no way to resolve this controversy. Thus, each individual keeps to himself, and the Truth is unknowable. Truth is relative to the individual.

This makes Christianity false, as God wouldn’t give a revelation that could not be known.

Further, we also see this as a kind of Gnosticism, since the individual is claiming “inspiration” (often without justification) to interpret. We see this as not much different than claiming that one is “enlightened” and that those who disagree just aren’t “enlightened.” You can see why we thing this sort of thinking is irrational, unjustifiable, and elitist.

On the other hand, the focus on the individual in interpreting Scripture I think is effective in conversion: certain aspects of the Gospel are emphasized to attract certain types of people. Those who have a “social justice” bent will find Christ’s healings and ministry to the poor appealing, while those who are attracted to wisdom will find his parables attractive. Church shopping is effective in our culture (it is wrong though, as it again makes Truth relative). This also has to be balanced, or else the emphasis in different parts of the Gospel start to fracture Christians with different interests apart, and even worse, it starts to pin the Gospel against the Gospel, with the Gospel’s falling apart. I haven’t seen Protestant able to stop this, since I think, with many others, that such thinking is inherently fragmentary.

If Protestants knew what was best for them, they would return to the Church now. There is a lax in certain kinds of authority in the Western Church, giving individuals more freedom. Protestants cannot deny doctrine, but they might be able to get away with keeping their unique non-heretical traditions without conflict, unlike a couple 100 years ago, where they would be forced to confirm to more than just doctrine. Who knows, they might get to keep married priests (once the man becomes ordained 👍 ).

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
Maybe this is too brutally honest, but I don’t care to go to protestant sites to see what they believe.
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Well, if that’s too brutally honest, then I’m just as guilty. 😊 I sometimes conjecture about how I’d guess things are on Protestant forums (e.g. the post you responded to) but it’s not based on direct experience of those sites, but rather on my knowledge of how-things-work generally and my experience on Catholic and Orthodox forums. (Well, and also things I’ve heard about Protestant forums.)

To those Protestant posters who complain about the CA forums, I’d like to challenge you all to consider how much of the problem is really just, if you will, the-way-things-are-on-internet-forums. :ehh: (Not that I’m trying to pin everything on the internet. We could also avoid mentioning the internet and say, for example: “There are certainly Protestants who are more about being anti-Catholic than being Protestant … so why are you all surprised that there are Catholics who are more about being anti-Protestant than being Catholic?” and so on and so forth.)
 
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