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SyroMalankara
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Entire Eastern Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Church of the East bishop’s lineages are from the other Apostles. They are not dependent on Rome.
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eightydeuce82
Guest
Each apostle ordained people as they went on. The earliest of fathers were all ordained by apostles. They lived all over the world and corresponded to where the apostles went and set up Sees. For instance St Paul tells us of his ordination of Titus who became Bishop of Crete. This instance just so happened to be captured in scripture. Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of the apostle John for 40 years before he became a Bishop.
This want much different than the Jewish practice. Rabbi’s had disciples who followed them everywhere as did the apostles.
Peter was given the Keys he is the Rock and he was told to feed His sheep. Yes its very clear that Peter was given the Authority to tend to the flock. So yes the bible is clear (crystal) on Peters role. So were All the early fathers. Especially the Apostolic fathers.
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eightydeuce82
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I mean besides ACTS we know very little from the bible as to where the apostles went and set up churches. In fact if we were to rely on the bible alone we really wouldn’t know much about the early church. We have 4 gospels and the writings of Paul well what about the rest of the 12? Seems kind of funny if the book was the authority why no one else penned a word…or at the minimum why all the churches didn’t save the writings like they did the others (if they did write). You have to go to extra biblical sources to find out the answers to these things. If you follow the traditional Protestant mindset here then you really know next to nothing about Christianity.
It would be something like this. Jesus was Crucified and appointed the apostles they traveled around and converted people in no authoritative way at all…somewhere in that time a bible was written…in 1517 Martin Luther came etc…
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SyroMalankara
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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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http://cityside.org.nz/userfiles/image/disciples-map-2.png
https://ishwarsharan.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/apostles-travels.jpg?w=475&h=227
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eightydeuce82
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:thumbsup:That’s pretty cool!
Glad to see some maps…I was watching the show AD and was wondering if they were going to stop there of if they would continue on past the book of ACTS? I’m guessing no since they would have to use “catholic” stuff to do that
Glad to see some maps…I was watching the show AD and was wondering if they were going to stop there of if they would continue on past the book of ACTS? I’m guessing no since they would have to use “catholic” stuff to do that
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steve_b
Guest
Keep in mind the words of the Father to the prodigal son.Both. We are seperate because you are Catholic and I am a Arminian Evangelical. We are united by our belief in Jesus Christ, baptism and botg are apart of the Body of Christ. We just have “seperate” faith traditions.
That’s my answer and I sticking to it.
Luke 15:24
While the prodigal son was away by choice, from the family, he was dead and lost to the Father.
Protestantism is the prodigal son. They are away from the family…by choice.
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steve_b
Guest
No one says the pope is the “sole” authority. He has primacy of authority.
s:
The argument over primacy of authority took place in the upper room. Jesus answered the apostles in 2 ways
*]Jesus validates primacy by saying one of them is the greatest
*]Jesus names only one apostle in this response in Lukes gospel. It’s Peter. And Jesus told His apostles through Peter, that it was Satan who is allowed to sift all of them like wheat. Guess who got them in that argument in the first place?
*]But Jesus says He prays especially for Peter, that it is Peter, who is to strengthen his brothers. Ergo it goes to reason they are to follow Peter’s lead as well.
using the same Lukan passages [Lk 22: 24-32 ]Here’s 2 different ways to present the answer.
#30 and #385 ]
s:
Yes, as well as how Church history demonstrated as well.
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Peter_J
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I can’t speak to every one of them, but for St. Thomas, Christian in India are known as “St. Thomas Christians” to this day.
Or a better known example would be the Patriarch of Constantinople as the successor of St Andrew.
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Peter_J
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Copy cat.
“The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection.”
-Vatican II (Decree on Ecumenism, paragraph 3)
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Peter_J
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P.S. Now if only we could convince the Orthodox.Copy cat.
The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection."
-Vatican II (Decree on Ecumenism, paragraph 3)
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onenow1
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Just a thought folks:Having one mind requires that there be only one authority to lead us.
Please notice the verses below, that Jesus said the wise man built his house upon the rock. He did not say his houses upon the rock.
God Bless
onenow1
“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am laying in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: He who believes will not be in haste”.”
Isaiah 28:16
“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
Matthew 7:24-27
“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am laying in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: He who believes will not be in haste”.”
Isaiah 28:16
“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
Matthew 7:24-27
“And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:17-22
“And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:17-22
Please notice the verses below, that Jesus said the wise man built his house upon the rock. He did not say his houses upon the rock.
God Bless
onenow1
“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am laying in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: He who believes will not be in haste”.”
Isaiah 28:16
“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
Matthew 7:24-27
“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am laying in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: He who believes will not be in haste”.”
Isaiah 28:16
“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
Matthew 7:24-27
“And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:17-22
“And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:17-22
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Peter_J
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Do we need another thread about how many thousands of denominations there are that subscribe to “Sola Scriptura”?
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onenow1
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No ! The quotes of scripture are quite self explanatory if you believe the words are inspired and prophetic.
God Bless
onenow1
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SyCarl
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Actually there appears to be very little about Peter in the Apostolic Fathers.
Unless I have forgotten something there is a reference to Peter and Paul equally in Clement’s letter to the Corinthians. This letter is expressed to be from the Church at Rome, not a particular person claiming authority.
Ignatius mentions Peter and Paul, again equally in his letter to the Romans. While he gives high praise to the Church at Rome, it is interesting to note that it is the only letter he wrote to a church that doesn’t mention their bishop.
I have not really found much more than these references in the Apostolic fathers.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Sorry I kind of disappeared…I’m working on my 3rd day in the hospital with angina 
…I’ll be back after I read and have time to bring more questions or info to the thread…
God bless all!
Rita
…I’ll be back after I read and have time to bring more questions or info to the thread…God bless all!
Rita
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LutheranScholar
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I’m so sorry to hear that, Rita.Sorry I kind of disappeared…I’m working on my 3rd day in the hospital with angina
God bless all!
Rita
You’re in my prayers…
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TruthBearer
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no.
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MaryT777
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Rita…Sorry I kind of disappeared…I’m working on my 3rd day in the hospital with angina
God bless all!
Rita
So sorry to hear about your angina and hospitalization. I pray for your recovery and relief from and control of symptoms. You are a real asset to the board and we’ll see you hopefully sooner rather than later.
Blessings,
Mary.
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PRmerger
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Praying, dearest Rita, for a speedy recovery!Sorry I kind of disappeared…I’m working on my 3rd day in the hospital with angina
God bless all!
Rita
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Steve_Timm
Guest
God Bless you my brother!!!It needs to be said that was his choice.
HI, Steve B! Yes, indeed it was his choice, because he would not take party with a system that was teaching error at the time.
He was excommunicated because he taught error and wouldn’t change.
Martin Luther corrected the Church when the Catholic Church lost sight of the salvific power of Christ.
Nope!
Yep!! Martin Luther did indeed seek to repair the one true Church. This is the Catholic Church.
Actually because of Luthers errors and his disinterest to recant, the Church got fed up with him.
Actually it was because of the truth Luther taught, the Church got fed up with him. Like I said before, it was no different with Jesus and the Pharisees and Sanhedrin.
Actually Jesus taught more about hell than any other person in scripture.
You are right! Jesus did teach more about Hell than any other person in scripture!
So while God is love, God is also just. Anyone leaving out the justice of God, is not worshipping the God that is, but a God of their own making.
Right on again! God is a God of justice. Unfornately, many people today worship a God of their own making.
He was standing up to corruption?
Standing up to corruption? Yes indeed he was!
Given his error and his rebellion, that sparked a rebellion on steroids that has only gotten rediculous as time goes on, I can’t even begin to quantify that degree of corruption.
The corruption was permeated through the Catholic Church at that time. Martin Luther sparked a rebellion that was a good thing. The rebellion against corruption caught on and opened peoples eyes to the truth. The scriptures were translated into the local tongue of the people, given into the hands of the people, mercy was proclaimed to the people and the people were re-introduced to a God that is loving and merciful as well as not ceasing to be just. Love is a product of justice and justice is a product of love.
Let’s test that out
Agreed, some were selling indulgences. Was that abuse caught and ended? Yes
Luther was given his list of errors. Did he respond to them? No Did he recant? No
Tested and confirmed! Luther was given is list of “errors”. If they were true errors, Luther would have recanted immediately. He did the right thing by not recanting and not repenting of them. As I said before, he was speaking truth to the power brokers of his time. They did not like that. Nor did the Pharisees like it when Jesus favored the Prostitute and the Tax Collector over them!
Tell me again how much Luther loved the Church?
Tell you again how much Luther loved the Church? No problem! Martin Luther loved the Church so much that he stood up and told the truth. Even when it was unpopular. He loved the Church so much so, that he wanted the Church to be the very means of the conference of Jesus mercy. He wanted the Church to be lifted up so that people would worship Jesus aright and give the proper veneration to Our Lady and the Saints. He loved the Church so much so that he wanted peoples eyes open to the truth of the life of Jesus and the teaching of the Apostles.
does that mean Lutherans believe in sola scriptura, just not sola scriptura alone?
No. Lutherans (at least the confession I belong to) do not believe in sola scriptura. (That may come as a surprise to many Catholics!)
okay, that shows me Luther was a pick and choose believer.
Luther had to be a pick and choose believer at the time, due to the corruption of the Catholic Church. He had to root out false teachings and get folks back to the biblical basics of the faith.
Does that mean you believe in OSAS?
If you mean “Once saved always saved?” No, I don’t believe that as scripture and the writings of the fathers and doctors of the Church do not teach that.
Those answers are just me thinking outloud.
No problem!! I appreciate the discourse! As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I feel this conversation between Protestants and Catholics is very important. I feel it clears up misconceptions that we both might have regarding the other and helps us develop a deeper understanding and appreciation of the others confession of faith.
You’re welcome,
Thanks and Blessings to you in return
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