The end of Protestantism

[Memaw]

But what is the Gospel of Jesus and do you not see Protestants reaching out with the Gospel? Granted, there are those that go overboard by being ultra conservative such as the Westoboro Baptist Church and those that are going so liberal that the Gospel of Jesus has no backbone anymore - nothing solid upon which they can base their Christian lives upon.

If it hadn’t been Luther it would have been someone else, I believe because the printing press was just invented and the works and teachings of Luther spread out among the people like wildfire. Maybe that wildfire would have been the good news taught by the CC - but there were others like Hus and Tyndale who had already begun to translate the Bible into the native tongues of the people. Had the printing press been invented then, we might have “Tyndaleism” or “Hussism.”

Regardless this is where we are at and if we really look at the signs of the last days we’re getting really close and unfortunately there will be people lost.

It should be our in our hearts to begin to spread His Good News so that everyone on every continent be allowed to ‘hear, taste, and see’ the Bread of Life.

God bless all!!

Rita

Jesus said, "I AM the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE. It has to be done with TRUTH. God Bless, Memaw

 

[aidanbradypop]

Well, it’s complicated–that’s the reality of the situation. There was fault and blame on both sides in both instances. The Church never sponsored nor taught heresy, though. Some in the Church went too far or insulted Eastern Christians–that’s what actually happened–just to keep to the truth here. The sad thing that these incidents are still used to keep people from being reconciled to the Church Christ founded.

I agree that both sides are at fault. Christ founded the Christian Church and many people arenot members of the Church. We need to reach them and share the Gospel.

I was heatened and glad to hear of the Ordinariate for Anglicans. I’m hoping there’ll be others for other recognizable Protestant bodies like Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc. I believe such ordinariates would help reunite Christians into full communion with the Church.

This is where we part I assume. You see the Church as the RCC. I see as the body of believers.

I see a lot of good in Protestant bodies from High Church Anglicans to Bible thumping Fundamentalists. The problem is what G. K. Chesterton cited–that each has taken a virtue and exalted it above all others, thus taking Christianity off on tangents–some of them ending in radical heresies–not all of course.

Yes I agree there are the extremes in every tradition. Catholicism has their own as well.

Everything good Protestants bring to the faith we Catholics benefit from–that the truth of the matter. Talking about the possible end of Protestantism isn’t/shouldn’t be triumphalism by Catholics but rather an aching in our hearts for the divisions that need not be. We want our Protestant brethren to be reunited to us so we can be one in bringing Christ and his Gospel of salvation in its fullness to the world. It has been the fallen nature of man and the work of the devil that has separated us against Christ’s prayer and desire that we all be one.

We wish the same as well. We pray for our Catholic brothers and sisters to join us in sharing the fullness of the Gospel!

 

[aidanbradypop]

“Some” would say many things that are not true. Who are they and where do they get their authority?? And what “non-bibical” practices are you talking about! God Bless, Memaw

Some would be those that are not RC.

From God.

Do I really need to answer the last one? I fear that would take the thread done a rabbit hole.

And God bless you as well

 

[spedteacherita]

Jesus said, "I AM the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE. It has to be done with TRUTH. God Bless, Memaw

Amen, Memaw!!

But the Truth I was talking about is the fact that Jesus took our sins upon the cross, died a horrible death willingly for us and was resurrected on the 3rd day. And the best part of that Truth is that He’s coming back very soon…maybe not in our lifetime but it ain’t long at all!!

God bless!!

Rita

 

[Peter_J]

Some would disagree. Some would say the RCC caused the divide with Orthodoxy and created the reformation buy certain non biblical practices.

Strawman alert! :tsktsk: No one said what you seem to think … heck, Vatican II actually says of the divisions that “often enough, men of both sides were to blame”.

What you quoted actually says “We’re not causing the many divisions **in **Protestantism.” (emphasis added) Do you disagree with *that *statement?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Strawman alert! :tsktsk: No one said what you seem to think … heck, Vatican II actually says of the divisions that “often enough, men of both sides were to blame”.

What you quoted actually says “We’re not causing the many divisions **in **Protestantism.” (emphasis added) Do you disagree with *that *statement?

:tsktsk: lol

I replied to Della that yes both sides are to blame.

A Freewill Baptist and a Southern Baptist have as much division as a Catholic and Orthodox.

Now if we compare LDS with Pentecostals then there is a huge difference. One is Christian and one is not.

I do not blame the RCC for the divide of Protestants.

 

[Della]

I agree that both sides are at fault. Christ founded the Christian Church and many people arenot members of the Church. We need to reach them and share the Gospel.

Agreed.

This is where we part I assume. You see the Church as the RCC. I see as the body of believers.

Actually, I agree with you. All the baptized are members of Christ’s body. The Church clearly teaches that. Protestants are united to the Church but not in full communion with her. That is the distinction and an important one for it means Protestants are deprived of many of the graces Christ intended for his people.

Yes I agree there are the extremes in every tradition. Catholicism has their own as well.

But not institutionally supported or created as in Protestantism. Catholics who start their own churches/belief systems put themsefves outside full communion with the Church, just like any other Protestant body.

We wish the same as well. We pray for our Catholic brothers and sisters to join us in sharing the fullness of the Gospel!

Thank you for the invitation but which one should we be united to? Since Protestants are the ones who left us 500 years ago it is up to Protestants to come back into the fold. The Church does not consider the Orthodox Protestants, but schismatics with whom we still have close association.

The Church teaches the fullness of the truth–always has and always will. It is Protestantism that has pared down teachings and some teach “another gospel.” I wish it were otherwise, but that’s how it is.

 

[Peter_J]

If I may be so bold, let’s all remember to respect our Orthodox brethren.

 

[Peter_J]

A Freewill Baptist and a Southern Baptist have as much division as a Catholic and Orthodox.

Interesting … in that case, it seems rather misleading to call both of them by the name “Baptist”.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Actually, I agree with you. All the baptized are members of Christ’s body. The Church clearly teaches that. Protestants are united to the Church but not in full communion with her. That is the distinction and an important one for it means Protestants are deprived of many of the graces Christ intended for his people.

By that statement, we do not agree.

But not institutionally supported or created as in Protestantism. Catholics who start their own churches/belief systems put themsefves outside full communion with the Church, just like any other Protestant body.

Old Catholic, PNCC, SSPX, the one we cannot name

Thank you for the invitation but which one should we be united to? Since Protestants are the ones who left us 500 years ago it is up to Protestants to come back into the fold. The Church does not consider the Orthodox Protestants, but schismatics with whom we still have close association.

Well you would say for us to come home and we say we already have a home and it is blessed.

The Church teaches the fullness of the truth–always has and always will. It is Protestantism that has pared down teachings and some teach “another gospel.” I wish it were otherwise, but that’s how it is.

Again we pary ways but that is ok

 

[aidanbradypop]

Interesting … in that case, it seems rather misleading to call both of them by the name “Baptist”.

Why call all followers of Jesus by the label of Christian?

The both have believer’s baptism, are both Ariminian in teaching and hold basically the same statement of faith.

 

[Peter_J]

Why call all followers of Jesus by the label of Christian?

They both have believer’s baptism, are both Ariminian in teaching and hold basically the same statement of faith.

Alright, I can believe all that; but it doesn’t tell me how they have as much division as a Catholic and Orthodox.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Alright, I can believe all that; but it doesn’t tell me how they have as much division as a Catholic and Orthodox.

I guess it depends on how wide you determine the gap to be between OC and RC.

 

[TK421]

The Church’s definition of a Christian is somebody that has been baptized, and there seems to be a growing number - according to the Catholic definition - of Christian-rooted denominations that do not have valid baptisms. Protestantism as an ideal has been with the Church since 1 A.D., but I think the number of groups that are recognized by the Catholic Church as sacramental Christians is going to keep decreasing. This is because the longer the distance in time from the 1500s, the more and more novel & innovative protestant ideas are going to become with each successive generation. They don’t have any cohesive agent to keep them together other than the Bible, and a free-floating document can be interpreted and approached in trillions of ways. Forget theology for a moment; for any literature or law student, that is one of the most basic realities of their life.

 

[Memaw]

The Church’s definition of a Christian is somebody that has been baptized, and there seems to be a growing number - according to the Catholic definition - Christian-rooted denominations that do not have valid baptisms. Protestantism as an ideal has been with the Church since 1 A.D., but I think the number of groups that are recognized by the Catholic Church as sacramental Christians is going to keep decreasing. This is because the longer the distance in time from the 1500s, the more and more novel & innovative protestant ideas are going to become with each successive generation. They don’t have any functional compass to keep them solidified other the the Bible, and a free-floating document can be interpreted and approached in trillions of ways. Forget theology; for any literature or law student, that is one of the most basic realities of their life.

Explain your statement that “Protestantism as an ideal has been with the Church since 1 A.D.” Thanks, God Bless, Memaw

 

[TK421]

I don’t think the specific term started being used until the 1500s with Calvin and Luther, but in the broader sense of the word (protestantism with a lower case p) you’ve had gnostics, Arians, etc, for ages prior to the Reformation in Europe. There has never before been an instant in the past 2015 years where every person that called themselves Christian was also Catholic.

 

[Peter_J]

If I may be so bold, let’s all remember to respect our Orthodox brethren.

P.S. Just in case I created any confusion, this was a reference to the post that called the Orthodox

schismatics

(I wasn’t trying to be terse or opaque, just didn’t want anyone to think I was impersonating a moderator.)

 

[Della]

By that statement, we do not agree.

Baptism is the connection, even for those who do not believe it is a sacrament of salvation–for even an atheist may baptize unto grace.

Old Catholic, PNCC, SSPX, the one we cannot name.

All disconnected from the Church by their own actions and decisions. They are no more Catholic than are Lutherans.

Well you would say for us to come home and we say we already have a home and it is blessed.

You have a home because you share baptism not because of what you believe/don’t believe in union with the Church.

Again we pary ways but that is ok

I don’t expect you to agree or even to understand, being separated from the Church. But, it is my duty to present the truth to you. I can only propose it, it is up to you to look into it, with open heart/mind, pray for God’s guidance, and then decide what to do about it.

 

[Peter_J]

I guess it depends on how wide you determine the gap to be between OC and RC.

Well, I don’t want to get further off topic, but how do you regard Vatican I’s statements about Papal Infallibility and Universal Ordinary Jurisdiction? (You may have answered that before, but I don’t recall.)

 

[Della]

P.S. Just in case I created any confusion, this was a reference to the post that called the Orthodox [schismatic].

(I wasn’t trying to be terse or opaque, just didn’t want anyone to think I was impersonating a moderator.)

The term schimatic in no way denigrates the Orthodox. It is merely the definition of their standing with the Church. I’m afraid definitions, such as schimatic/heretic, have taken on negative connotations, however they aren’t slurs or meant to be denigrating, they’re just statements of fact. :tiphat:

The Orthodox are the closest to Catholicism in beliefs/practice. We Catholics hold far more in common than not with them. It is mostly a matter of the authority of the papacy that stands in the way of reunion, which all Catholics must hope will one day come about.