The end of Protestantism

[Mystophilus]

Well enlighten me on the authority that you follow?

The (nearest thing which we have to) official version in Anglicanism is “Reason + Tradition + Scripture”. Methodists have a similar set, although some add “+ Experience”. I believe that Lutherans also have a similar set.

In addition, there are other Protestants who have similar processes without the formalised label. Sola scriptura is a catchy phrase, but it does not actually operate all that much: scriptura et alia (“and other things”) is far more common.

 

[danzibr]

“as long as people don’t question their beliefs, there will be Protestantism”

This does not imply Protestantism = willful stupidity. If you insist it does, we must be speaking slightly different versions of English, or using slightly different versions of logic. Regardless, I cannot reason with such a person, and thus choose to leave this thread.

 

[Memaw]

It always good to recognize good wisdom!

My take is it boils down to two things:

1. Protestantism teaches sola scriptura which opens the door to personal interpretation of the scripture and attempts to remove the true Authority of the Church. In other words in you don’t like what you hear then you can “invent” a different philosophy.
2. Human nature is that people do not want to be accountable and will seek ways to justify their means.

Thus for many Catholicism seems suppressive and those people tend to attack the teachings of the Church and it’s true Authority. Obedience, humility and selfless service are not attractive to many but they are very important parts (IMO) of Catholicism and rightfully so.

Accountability and the real presence are what drew me to the Catholic Church and both have blessed my life but many will be unable to put God in front of their own desires. Therefore as long as there is an alternative there will be an audience. We can only pray for them.

Amen, welcome home !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

The (nearest thing which we have to) official version in Anglicanism is “Reason + Tradition + Scripture”. Methodists have a similar set, although some add “+ Experience”. I believe that Lutherans also have a similar set.

In addition, there are other Protestants who have similar processes without the formalised label. Sola scriptura is a catchy phrase, but it does not actually operate all that much: scriptura et alia (“and other things”) is far more common.

What are the “OTHER THINGS”, and who came up with them ? God Bless, Memaw

 

[aidanbradypop]

Do you think Protestantism will die out? I think so.

Nope. Evangelicalism is actually growing at a very healthy rate. My congregation has grown by about 1000 in the last 3 yrs.

I do see the liberal mindind churches declining but still there will be some that wish to have that secular form of Christianity.

 

[Mystophilus]

What are the “OTHER THINGS”, and who came up with them ? God Bless, Memaw

Personal preconceptions, linguistic preconceptions, cultural preconceptions, individual mood state, motivated cognition, ideological subjectivity, the latest Great Christian Writer™, some previous favourite Great Christian Writer™, the views of the church’s preacher/pastor/minister/leader/speaker, etc. Most non-lawyers do not read just exactly what the text actually says.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Unfortunately, I think not. Not while the human race is still going, anyway.

Not to be flippant or disrespectful or anything, but as long as people don’t question their beliefs, there will be Protestantism. It reminds me of a commercial saying, ``It makes sense if you don’t think about it.’’ Some people grow up in a Protestant community, never doubt the beliefs of their community (and hence never look into it), and… that’s how they live.

I’m saying this as a person who was baptized Methodist as a young age, grew up with no religion, became Baptist for a short time, then became Catholic. I knew essentially nothing of Christianity when I started going to the Baptist church, but I wanted to learn. So I looked into it, did reading (like the Bible), and discovered the Bible didn’t say what the Baptists were telling me. My wife and I read If Protestantism is True and did more research, then became Catholic.

Glad you found a home where you can build your relationship with Jesus Christ! I am an Evangelical revert. I was Baptist growing up, converted to Catholicism and found my way back home in Evangelicalism.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Nope. Evangelicalism is actually growing at a very healthy rate. My congregation has grown by about 1000 in the last 3 yrs.

I do see the liberal mindind churches declining but still there will be some that wish to have that secular form of Christianity.

I find that ironic. In my mind Evangelicalism is the ULTIMATE form of liberalism. By liberalism I mean a complete rejection of the dogmatic principle. Beginning with William of Ockham in the 13th c. and continuing through all of the great liberals who continued to press the liberal principle of self determination in opposition to the dogmatic authoritarian Church/Political schema. (Liberalism is always tightly wrapped with political ends.)

Today’s Evangelical rejects nearly everything that he does not see explicitly, incontrovertibly and with his own wording in the Bible. If there is ANY deviation or vagueness in the wording, then the Evangelical is free to believe ANYTHING that his own mind suggests, based on his own prejudices and grasp of morality. No “Church” can be trusted, even though he adheres staunchly to the aggregation of teachings of like minded others, based loosely on a gradually diminishing creed, since so much has already been cast aside.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I find that ironic. In my mind Evangelicalism is the ULTIMATE form of liberalism. By liberalism I mean a complete rejection of the dogmatic principle. Beginning with William of Ockham in the 13th c. and continuing through all of the great liberals who continued to press the liberal principle of self determination in opposition to the dogmatic authoritarian Church/Political schema. (Liberalism is always tightly wrapped with political ends.)

Today’s Evangelical rejects nearly everything that he does not see explicitly, incontrovertibly and with his own wording in the Bible. If there is ANY deviation or vagueness in the wording, then the Evangelical is free to believe ANYTHING that his own mind suggests, based on his own prejudices and grasp of morality. No “Church” can be trusted, even though he adheres staunchly to the aggregation of teachings of like minded others, based loosely on a gradually diminishing creed, since so much has already been cast aside.

Everyone has an opinion.

 

[LoyalViews]

I must admit - my experience in Protestantism is limited to a Methodist congregation under the United label. My Father’s family is evenly split - half Catholic, half Anglican. I have two cousins who are vicars of very catholic parishes - one said service per-day according to the Book of Common Prayer, and a Choral Eucharist on Sundays. I am organist at an Anglican parish who follows the same pattern. When I finish work on Sunday, I head straight to Mass and have found only minor variations in the liturgy. The biggest difference is that of a valid priesthood and the understanding of the Eucharist.

I haven’t seen or heard anything distinctly Protestant from them, other than the 39 articles which have been thoroughly influenced by the Oxford Movement and Bl John Henry Cardinal Newman’s interpretation of them when he was a vicar. But in Anglicanism, you have the low and broad Church to consider as well - where I can’t say very much.

The idea of sola scriptura was preached at the Methodist circuit which I found full to the brim with loophole arguments and nothing really held much water. I was there for a wedding and they were on fire with the Protestant doctrines rather than love of Christ, which I’m told is an irregularity amongst Methodists.

 

[JonNC]

Nope.

Some variants of Protestantism teach sola scriptura.

And at least for us, sola scriptura isn’t something that is “taught”. Its a practice, not a doctrine. I wasn’t “taught” sola scriptura in catechetical class.
I also wasn’t given a Bible and told to go figure out what it means, which is what some seem to believe SS to be.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

I questioned my beliefs, that’s why I’m a convert. Many people don’t question their beliefs, it’s just “how they were raised.” It is ignorance, not stupidity.

I question my beliefs all the time (one of the reasons I’m here), and I’m 60 years a Lutheran.

Take a chill pill. Did you really think that a question about the end of protestantism on a catholic site would praise protestantism?

Praise? Of course not. But…
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Jon

 

[Della]

I question my beliefs all the time (one of the reasons I’m here), and I’m 60 years a Lutheran.

Praise? Of course not. But…
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Jon

These quotes are certainly Church teaching, but that’s not all the Church teaches about being separated from the Church. These passages assume ignorance or insurmountable obstacles to reconciliation not willful separation if one knows the Church to be what she is and still refuses to be reconciled with her. I cite this merely to clarify–not making accusations against anyone here.

Most people remain within their Protestant communities because (in no particular order):

1. They know nothing else. (The same can be said for many Catholics, so this is not an accusation but a mere statement of fact).
2. They feel comfortable within the life of their communities. Many times Protestants who consider the CC say that Catholic parishes are cold and impersonal. It’s a valid point, but it’s not because Catholics are less friendly. Mass is not a social gathering–it’s liturgy. Our liturgical brethren understand this better than our Evangelical brethren do.
3. The Church feels alien to many Protestants. Many Protestant bodies are minimalist. They have a hard time relating to all the riches in the Church and see them not as riches but as crustations/add-ons.
4. Years of bias against Catholicism. Hey, it’s real and has to be acknowledged. Even my very liberal minded Episcopalian parents wouldn’t let me have a picture of the Sacred Heart when I was a child because it was “too Catholic.” I’m not passing judgment on them or those who feel that way. It’s just that such bias is often unreasoning and even otherwise reasonble people can be infected with it. I blame cultural bias and the devil for this, not so much individuals.

There are other reasons Protestants cannot accept the Church, but in the end there will only be one Church. Some will be united (because of their baptism) but not in full communion till the day they die. Formal Protestantism may die out and become a disembodied “spirituality.” But, as long as people have access to a Bible, some form of non-Catholic Christian faith will exist because God does not abandon anyone who calls on his name.

It’s not in his nature to desert people merely because they are ignorant. Rather, he reaches out to us where we are, but we are expected to travel on in truth, not stop where we feel comefortable. But how, when and the time the journey takes is between God and the individual. It’s not cut and dried, but messy–like life. The Church knows this which is why she makes allowances, knowing the fallen nature of man.

 

[dronald]

As long as God is using Church’s to help the homeless find a home, feed the poor, take care of widows, pregnant women (with husbands or not; without shaming), teaching youth, helping the depressed, and teaching the love of Christ, bringing others to be Baptized and know God… No I don’t think God will shut em down.

 

[Memaw]

I must admit - my experience in Protestantism is limited to a Methodist congregation under the United label. My Father’s family is evenly split - half Catholic, half Anglican. I have two cousins who are vicars of very catholic parishes - one said service per-day according to the Book of Common Prayer, and a Choral Eucharist on Sundays. I am organist at an Anglican parish who follows the same pattern. When I finish work on Sunday, I head straight to Mass and have found only minor variations in the liturgy. The biggest difference is that of a valid priesthood and the understanding of the Eucharist.

I haven’t seen or heard anything distinctly Protestant from them, other than the 39 articles which have been thoroughly influenced by the Oxford Movement and Bl John Henry Cardinal Newman’s interpretation of them when he was a vicar. But in Anglicanism, you have the low and broad Church to consider as well - where I can’t say very much.

The idea of sola scriptura was preached at the Methodist circuit which I found full to the brim with loophole arguments and nothing really held much water. I was there for a wedding and they were on fire with the Protestant doctrines rather than love of Christ, which I’m told is an irregularity amongst Methodists.

I don’t think I would call a “valid priesthood” and the “understanding of the Eucharist” just minor variations !! They make all the difference in the world !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[ignatius777]

Do you think Protestantism will die out? I think so.

What leads you to think so?

 

[Memaw]

What leads you to think so?

Divide and conquer, as the old saying goes. Secularism is replacing much. God Bless

 

[ignatius777]

Divide and conquer, as the old saying goes. Secularism is replacing much. God Bless

Wouldn’t that be true for Catholicism as well then? The poster specifically mentioned Protestantism.

 

[dronald]

Wouldn’t that be true for Catholicism as well then? The poster specifically mentioned Protestantism.

According to a Pew study (do I have to get it? I have numerous times) Evangelicals are more likely to hold more ‘orthodox’ views than self proclaimed Catholics.

 

[ignatius777]

According to a Pew study (do I have to get it? I have numerous times) Evangelicals are more likely to hold more ‘orthodox’ views than self proclaimed Catholics.

No need to:“get it”, I am just wondering what this has to do with the specific claim that Protestantism may be coming to an end? Are you saying they are becoming more orthodox or secularism is invading more and more as you suggested in your last post?