The end of Protestantism

  • Thread starter Thread starter smead2942
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
JonNC said:
Because of doctrine, he walked away from the other patriarchs (or the reverse).

Jon
Click to expand...
This was not permitted, Jon. No Catholic is permitted to walk away from the other patriarchs.

The Bishop of Rome set the table for all the patriarchs to join him at the table. They are still welcome.
 
JonNC said:
The district (diocese) is called in to resolve the differences.

Jon
Click to expand...
And then what?

Modern-Day Martin Luther says that the Lutheran confessions are wrong.

Does MDML have to submit to the authority of the confessions, or is he permitted to remain Lutheran and proclaim what is contrary to the confessions?
 
What an intense thread this has been! How wonderful to see people standing up for their faith and that of their fathers! I said just a few posts ago that I was guilty of charging in with both guns blazing, passionately defending my people and my faith. Now, it’s Sunday, I received the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in, with and under the Bread and Wine and I simply say ( with my minister) " it’s not about* you *at all! God has already done all the work! In Christ, we are already sons and daughters of the King! No one can take that away from us. We are His, individually and as a Congregation." I pray we all ponder the fact that in Jesus Christ, we are led to Holy Obedience to the Will of God by the Holy Spirit. Now, in case I find myself unreasonably angry and forget what God did for me at my baptism, I’ll chill out from this particular thread for today. God bless you all.
 
LutheranScholar said:
The beauty of Protestantism is that if somebody in one church disagrees with that theology, why, he’s perfectly free to go over to another denomination that his conscience can more readily settle in.
Click to expand...
Yep. What PRmerger’s been saying.


The only authority our clergymen have is to proclaim the Word, distribute the Sacraments, pronounce forgiveness for the penitent and excommunicate the recalcitrant.
Click to expand...
That’s also what PR’s been saying. Not the authority to demand Lutherans conform to the confessions.
We don’t murder people for heresy
Click to expand...
No one should be murdered for heresy, LS.
and we don’t issue anathemas against them. He or she may " go in peace, to love and serve the Lord."
Click to expand...
Well, it’s only, as you say, because you don’t have the authority to do so…but telling them to join another church is essentially the same as saying “You are anathema”, right?

At least, that’s what the Catholic understanding of “you are anathema” is.
 
JonNC said:
Exactly, PR. So, the practice of walking away due to doctrinal dispute is, sadly, much older than the Reformation.

Jon
Click to expand...
We didn’t walk away, Jon.

The CC doesn’t sanction walking away due to doctrinal disputes. It is NOT encouraged.

However, that is indeed the paradigm of Protestantism…and, specifically, Lutheranism.
 
When we distill the paradigms, this is what we conclude:

Catholicism professes obedience to the Church authority.

Protestantism professes "You can disobey the Church authority if your Church authority says something contrary to your interpretation of Scripture."

Martin Luther, John Calvin, and all of the Reformers did what is bolded.

Now, some Protestant folks here say that you* can’t *disobey their Church authority.

But I find that peculiar, given that their very own leaders did exactly what they are saying you can’t do.

How do you reconcile this, Protestant friends?
 
PRmerger said:
When we distill the paradigms, this is what we conclude:

Catholicism professes obedience to the Church authority.

Protestantism professes "You can disobey the Church authority if your Church authority says something contrary to your interpretation of Scripture."

Martin Luther, John Calvin, and all of the Reformers did what is bolded.

Now, some Protestant folks here say that you* can’t *disobey their Church authority.

But I find that peculiar, given that their very own leaders did exactly what they are saying you can’t do.

How do you reconcile this, Protestant friends?
Click to expand...
Bottom line is Christ is in authority -

Man has undoubtedly gotten in the way - but no one can stand in the way of the love He gave and still gives us from Calvary. It’s for everyone and I pray that He returns soon because this type of denigration from on group to another is certainly not His plan for His people. Would this be the way Christ would walk among His people? I don’t think so. Anger only begets anger and more can be said in love the way Jesus did while He walked among us. Let’s take a deep breath and think about what we’re saying and how we’re saying it. It’s His day and we should be offering praise and fellowship rather than this anger.

God bless all,

Rita
 
PRmerger said:
We didn’t walk away, Jon.

The CC doesn’t sanction walking away due to doctrinal disputes. It is NOT encouraged.

However, that is indeed the paradigm of Protestantism…and, specifically, Lutheranism.
Click to expand...
In the 11th century other factors aggravated these differences. In 1009 the Filioque clause was made an essential part of the Latin profession of faith. In retaliation the name of the pope of Rome was dropped from the diptychs, or lists of those patriarchs with whom a patriarchal church was in communion.
Click to expand...
Under strong reforming popes such as Gregory VII, the papacy claimed jurisdiction over all Christian churches. This claim was ignored in the East.
Click to expand...
greatschism.org/Great-Eastern-Schism.html

ISTM, PR, that one can argue that changing the creed, and claiming supremacy, without the benefit of ecumenical council was, effectively, walking away from the faith that had been historically held.
If we Lutherans are guilty, we could argue we learned from Catholicism.
But I also do not think that your scenario, is what will bring an end to protestantism, anymore than the Schism brought an end to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Jon
 
LutheranScholar said:
What an intense thread this has been!
Click to expand...
The last few pages have definitely been interesting (from what I read of them, which admittedly is far from all).

I only wish you guys could be as interested in what Catholics think as you are in one particular Catholic. (Kidding … Sort of. :))
 
Peter_J said:
The last few pages have definitely been interesting (from what I read of them, which admittedly is far from all).

I only wish you guys could be as interested in what Catholics think as you are in one particular Catholic. (Kidding … Sort of. :))
Click to expand...
I like PR, although you can tell she and I have our little disagreements. She is well informed, charitable and “fights fair” and could well serve as a model for many other posters.
 
Tomyris said:
That’s your personal interpretation. 😃 Maybe not, because it seems widespread on CAF, but not found, I think, in the Catechism, which means it is not Catholic teaching.

The confessional Protestant churches (Lutherans, most Prebyterians, Anglicans, for example) thoroughly reject that from the get-go, reserving interpretation at the denominational level (although allowing a great deal of liberty, as Catholics do, in many things).

And this neglects the working towards unity of many Protestants and the merger of many denominations, many times. That’s why there are the United Methodists, the United Church of Christ, and there is no more Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod, as they merged with the Presbyterian Church in America.
Click to expand...
Why would a list like that even be in the Catholic Catechism?? That has nothing to do with it. God Bless, Memaw
 
PRmerger said:
Protestantism professes "You can disobey the Church authority if your Church authority says something contrary to your interpretation of Scripture."

Martin Luther, John Calvin, and all of the Reformers did what is bolded.
Click to expand...
Do you have quotes from them as to why they left the Catholic Church that would demonstrate they held this position? Do you have any evidence that any Protestants state this, or is this your inference (subject, conceivably, to correction)?
 
JonNC said:
greatschism.org/Great-Eastern-Schism.html

ISTM, PR, that one can argue that changing the creed, and claiming supremacy, without the benefit of ecumenical council was, effectively, walking away from the faith that had been historically held.
If we Lutherans are guilty, we could argue we learned from Catholicism.
But I also do not think that your scenario, is what will bring an end to protestantism, anymore than the Schism brought an end to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Jon
Click to expand...
I think the split at Chalcedon has had lasting ramifications…
 
spedteacherita said:
Bottom line is Christ is in authority -

Man has undoubtedly gotten in the way - but no one can stand in the way of the love He gave and still gives us from Calvary. It’s for everyone and I pray that He returns soon because this type of denigration from on group to another is certainly not His plan for His people. Would this be the way Christ would walk among His people? I don’t think so. Anger only begets anger and more can be said in love the way Jesus did while He walked among us. Let’s take a deep breath and think about what we’re saying and how we’re saying it. It’s His day and we should be offering praise and fellowship rather than this anger.

God bless all,

Rita
Click to expand...
Jesus prayed that His Church would be one. Your right, we have messed that up royally. But if all Christians would stop finding fault. love one another and work together for the TRUTH, we might be able to make some progress to reach the goal Christ had for us. I think we’re a lot like the people of the OT and we may have to travel thru “40” years of desert before HE brings us HOME. God Bless, Memaw
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top