The end of Protestantism

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Bottom line is Christ is in authority -
Well, yes, but unless Christ appears to you privately and lets you know what He wants, there has to be a middle man to speak for Christ. Some sort of deputy or, er, vicar who speaks and we know that when this vicar speaks, it is He who is speaking.

If only there were a vicar here…



oh…wait…



#justbeingsassyfolks
#dontgethuffy
#itstongueincheek

😃
 
greatschism.org/Great-Eastern-Schism.html

ISTM, PR, that one can argue that changing the creed, and claiming supremacy, without the benefit of ecumenical council was, effectively, walking away from the faith that had been historically held.
If we Lutherans are guilty, we could argue we learned from Catholicism.
But I also do not think that your scenario, is what will bring an end to protestantism, anymore than the Schism brought an end to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Jon
Let’s bypass for now the question of who walked away from whom.

The important point is: does the Catholic Church teach that it’s a good thing, or a bad thing, to walk away?

There is no doubt that the CC teaches, *like Christ does, * that we don’t walk away from authority when we disagree with what they say. Rather, we obey.

Protestantism, however, is built upon the foundation that you can walk away when you disagree.

(Except, curiously, for some denominations–whose very own leaders walked away–which allegedly state that you can’t walk away. #untenable)
 
I like PR, although you can tell she and I have our little disagreements. She is well informed, charitable and “fights fair” and could well serve as a model for many other posters.
Awww, thanks, doll! :hug1:

It is a supreme compliment to me to be told that I “fight fair”.

But are you sure that PeterJ’s reference was to me? Because that’s something that might be reportable. :hmmm:
 
Do you have quotes from them as to why they left the Catholic Church that would demonstrate they held this position? Do you have any evidence that any Protestants state this, or is this your inference (subject, conceivably, to correction)?
Martin Luther: "Since then your majesty and your lordships desire a simple reply, I will answer without horns or without teeth. Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other- my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe.”
givemethatbook.com/martin-luther-his-quotes-on-scripture/

“[It] is an accursed lie that the pope is the arbiter of Scripture or that the church has authority over Scripture. This is what the canonists and commentators on the Sentences have wickedly declared”
Miscellaneous Remarks on Scripture by Martin Luther"

" Personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist.”
gty.org/blog/B130226/exposing-the-heresies-of-the-catholic-church-the-pope

John Calvin: "Although your Letter has many windings, its whole purport substantially is to recover the Genevese to the power of the Roman Pontiff, or to what you call the faith and obedience of the Church. But as, from the nature of the case, their feelings required to be softened, you preface with a long oration concerning the incomparable value of eternal life. You afterwards come nearer to the point, when you show that there is nothing more pestiferous to souls than a perverse worship of God; and again, that the best rule for the due worship of God is that which is prescribed by the Church, and that, therefore, there is no salvation for those who have violated the unity of the Church unless they repent. But you next contend, that separation from your fellowship is manifest revolt from the Church, and then that the gospel which the Genevese received from us is nothing but a large farrago of impious dogmas. From this you infer what kind of divine judgment awaits them if they attend not to your admonitions. But as it was of the greatest importance to your cause to throw complete discredit on our words, you labor to the utmost to fill them with sinister suspicions of the zeal which they saw us manifest for their salvation. Accordingly, you captiously allege that we had no other end in view than to gratify our avarice and ambition. Since, then, your device has been to cast some stain upon us, in order that the minds of your readers, being preoccupied with hatred, might give us no credit, I will, before proceeding to other matters, briefly reply to that objection.
monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/calvin_sadolet.html

“Some persons think us too severe and censorious, when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak, and whose language we adopt. And lest anyone should object, that we improperly pervert to the Roman pontiff those words of Paul, which belong to a different subject, I shall briefly show that they are not capable of any other interpretation than that which implies them to the papacy”
gty.org/blog/B130226/exposing-the-heresies-of-the-catholic-church-the-pope
 
Do you have quotes from them as to why they left the Catholic Church that would demonstrate they held this position? Do you have any evidence that any Protestants state this, or is this your inference (subject, conceivably, to correction)?
John Hus: “No one is held to believe anything except what he is moved by God to believe but God moves no man to believe what is false. Nemo tenetur quidquam credere nisi ad quod movet eum deus credere sed deus non movet hominem ad credendum falsum." hailandfire.com/library_books_Huss(John)_DeEcclesiaTheChurch.html

John Macarthur: youtube.com/all_comments?v=i5RMFu-JHGs&lc=jYoSL75Ukqa-a-V94t0I4kz_6ljGavzkhVL499ghawI
 
Protestantism, however, is built upon the foundation that you can walk away when you disagree.

(Except, curiously, for some denominations–whose very own leaders walked away–which allegedly state that you can’t walk away. #untenable)
I’m not sure that Protestantism is built on just walking away…Luther didn’t walk away and he didn’t want to walk away. Sure, he wasn’t writing or saying things that the Catholic Church liked very much so they kicked him out but that’s not why he started ruffling feathers.

If he were here today I believe he would be sickened at what has come of it…would it have changed anything at the time - probably not.

Blessings!!

Rita
 
Jesus prayed that His Church would be one. Your right, we have messed that up royally. But if all Christians would stop finding fault. love one another and work together for the TRUTH, we might be able to make some progress to reach the goal Christ had for us. I think we’re a lot like the people of the OT and we may have to travel thru “40” years of desert before HE brings us HOME. God Bless, Memaw
👍

Amen, Memaw, amen!

Maranatha, Lord Jesus!
 
I’m not sure that Protestantism is built on just walking away…
Well, yes. You are correct. It is not built just on that.

But divorcing oneself from the authority of the papacy was one of the foundational cries of the reformers. IOW: “Authority? We don’t need an authority!”
Luther didn’t walk away and he didn’t want to walk away. Sure, he wasn’t writing or saying things that the Catholic Church liked very much so they kicked him out but that’s not why he started ruffling feathers.
Are you aware that there are not a few Catholics who did exactly what Luther did–spoke out to admonish what needed to be admonished–and are now saints? Saints, Rita.
 
But are you sure that PeterJ’s reference was to me? Because that’s something that might be reportable. :hmmm:
Well, I’m sure you know that I can “hear” you guys talking about me; so I’m going to go right ahead and ask, what do you mean by that?
 
Well, I’m sure you know that I can “hear” you guys talking about me; so I’m going to go right ahead and ask, what do you mean by that?
Say anything more negative about me and I will report you.

That’s all I mean.
 
Well, yes. You are correct. It is not built just on that.

But divorcing oneself from the authority of the papacy was one of the foundational cries of the reformers. IOW: “Authority? We don’t need an authority!”

Are you aware that there are not a few Catholics who did exactly what Luther did–spoke out to admonish what needed to be admonished–and are now saints? Saints, Rita.
I’m going to pull your chain one more time. 👍

Do you know we Lutherans consider everyone saints? I understand, though, what you are saying…I have read and heard varied stories of the saints on EWTN. I think in another situation Martin Luther could very well have been one and, who knows, in the sight of our Lord maybe he is and he’s up there right now, sharing stories with all the Catholic saints?

Anyway, have a blessed night!

Rita
 
Say anything more negative about me and I will report you.

That’s all I mean.
Well, I don’t want to analyze this to death of course (heck, I’ve only read a fraction of the 70+ new posts on this thread in the last several hours, if that’s any gauge of my level of dedication to this thread :)) but aren’t you once again implying that I said something negative about you, but without saying what it is? :rolleyes:
 
I’m going to pull your chain one more time. 👍

Do you know we Lutherans consider everyone saints?
Well, if you mean by everyone “everyone in heaven”, then this is quite Catholic. Everyone in heaven* is* a saint.

But the point is: the CC is not against being admonished.

There just is a proper way to do it.

Catherine of Sienna did it the proper way.

She is a recognized saint now in our Church.

Martin Luther? Well…what he started has resulted in this obscenity: tens of thousands of different denominations, presenting chaos and confusion where there ought to be unity and truth.

I have been in many a dialogue with atheists, Muslims, Jews who point to the fruit of the Protestant Reformation–this objectionable number of Christian denominations–as a reason to reject Christianity in general.

And they have a valid point. Sadly, they are right. It does appear to be a reason not to embrace Christianity.
I think in another situation Martin Luther could very well have been one and, who knows, in the sight of our Lord maybe he is and he’s up there right now, sharing stories with all the Catholic saints?
Anyway, have a blessed night!
I have great hope for this indeed! 🙂
 
Heh.

But in all seriousness, I just don’t seem to get the Protestant posters on this forum – including (but not exclusively) in terms of this thread.
I took your statement as “there are a lot more good things to be said about PR than you are saying, because you are understating…”

And there are!
 
Well, technically saying that “I like PR” is an understatement is saying that you really, really, really like PR (which technically I don’t know since I can’t read your mind, but I can infer from the number of responses that you and other Protestant posters wrote to her posts in just a few hours).

I’m not sure that was an issue anyhow, but since you gave me an opportunity to clarify I decided to take it. Though I’m not sure the connection with “I just don’t seem to get the Protestant posters on this forum.” :hmmm:
 
Say anything more negative about me and I will report you.

That’s all I mean.
:confused:
I, for one, am lost. Where has Peter J said anything negative about you at all?

He said, “I only wish you guys could be as interested in what Catholics think as you are in one particular Catholic”, which is most likely about you but does not represent you in a negative fashion, and he said that Tomyris’ “I like PR” demonstrates “a gift for understatement”, which also does not represent you in a negative fashion.
 
Heh.

But in all seriousness, I just don’t seem to get the Protestant posters on this forum – including (but not exclusively) in terms of this thread.
What don’t you get about us here? Not saying this antagonistically at all - just want to know if we need to clarify what we’re saying?

Blessings!

Rita
 
I have never heard anyone on Journey home, put down their former faith. And I have been watching it ever since it started over 15 years ago. They have always been thankful for what they learned but realized it was not the fullness of Truth. God Bless, Memaw
I used to watch The Journey Home fairly often because I was curious as to why people would decide to move to Catholicism. I learned a lot from it and from other shows on EWTN. I was frustrated on occasion with some choices to leave based on incorrect doctrinal issues - especially with the LCMS. Can I remember them directly now - not really but the one that really stuck out in my mind was having to do with Holy Communion. Can’t remember now (I have enough trouble remembering my day to day living) but I remember hollering at the TV that it wasn’t true!

Needless to say he didn’t hear me. 😃

It would be quite interesting if the LCMS would do the same thing with a television show to see the amount of people who become a part of our church and their reasonings. Curious to say the least.

I understand why Catholics do say that they have the fullness of the Truth and I could be enticed over if it weren’t for some of the doctrines taught. Until then, I will be content with the fullness of truth that I get through my Christian life as a Lutheran.

God bless!!

Rita
 
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