The End of the Universe

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mannyfit75
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Remember that about 100 years ago these same type of scientist absolutely knew that the earth was round!

In the end, who cares? What differences do it really make unless you are using that knowledge to somehow determine your religious faith.

David Thomas sends…
 
drthomas_21 said:
Remember that about 100 years ago these same type of scientist absolutely knew that the earth was round!

In the end, who cares? What differences do it really make unless you are using that knowledge to somehow determine your religious faith.

David Thomas sends…
Click to expand...
Basically, the scripture says that no man knows the hour or date. If they are just having a physic discussion and it does no harm to the church, then more power to them. I love great minds and am certain God does too. Did not mean to start any threads.
 
The end of the Universe is a subject best left to Scientists. It really has little bearing on Catholicism of the Faith.
 
As I’ve said before, this question has huge implications on theology. If the universe is cyclical, eternal, infinite, or self-creating, then as Stephen Hawking said in his famous volume, A Brief History of Time: "What need of God?"

That’s what many scientists like Hawking are trying to do: explain away the need for God with a “Theory of Everything”.

They won’t be able to accomplish it… precisely because of a theorem by another scientist, Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem, which implies that to prove a “Theory of Everything”, you’d need to step outside of the universe and perform an experiment of infinite duration, i.e. be God 😉 .

So it is a question of vital importance. Many undergraduates or those who dabble in science are losing their faith because they are being presented only with the view of Hawking and others. Hawking is, in the popular imagination, one of the “great minds” of our time, yet his works are full of self-contradictions and lack of critical thinking, but people are buying his conclusions (no need for God) hook, line, and sinker.
  • Padrecito
 
Padrecito said:
Or extinction (through science) by then.

Or extinction (through nova or asteroid impact or other unexpected astronomical phenomena) by then.

😉
Click to expand...
anything is possible. a disease or a meteor could wipe us off. we could kill each other off. or we could all learn to live together in harmony and be lucky enough to acquire all the knowledge in the universe that could make humans into gods. amen?
 
AgnosTheist said:
anything is possible. a disease or a meteor could wipe us off. we could kill each other off. or we could all learn to live together in harmony and be lucky enough to acquire all the knowledge in the universe that could make humans into gods. amen?
Click to expand...
Nope. Because there is nothing in science that would enable us to “step outside” of the universe and experiment with it. We could have a “vast amount” of knowledge, but never “all knowledge” because that would imply infinity and omniscience. But there are no actual infinities. Science deals only with that which is quantifiable, and the transcendent is beyond the limits of science. We might become “like gods” as compared to lesser beings, but we will never be able to become like God Himself, unless he invites us to share in his life through Grace (which again, is not a scientifically quantifiable thing).
  • Padrecito
 
^ who knows. 2 thousand years ago flight was unthinkable (even the bible writers missed it). anything is possible if humanity learns cooperation. and who said about ‘stepping outside’? humanity can remain inside, become immortal and manipulate the universe. and preventing its cold death.
 
AgnosTheist said:
^ who knows. 2 thousand years ago flight was unthinkable (even the bible writers missed it). anything is possible if humanity learns cooperation. and who said about ‘stepping outside’? humanity can remain inside, become immortal and manipulate the universe. and preventing its cold death.
Click to expand...
How? Humanity can’t add energy to the system. That’s what I mean by “step outside”. To prevent a cold death, energy must be added from outside the system, which by the definitions of “universe” and “science”, is impossible.

We might be able to manipulate things, survive longer, but unless we find a way to transcend the universe, we’ll die with it, eventually. From a scientific perspective, of course, leaving aside for the moment any intervention by a Transcendent God.

I’ve got a patent for a perpetual motion machine. I’ll sell it to you for only $10 million. Sound like a deal? 😉
  • Padrecito
 
Padrecito said:
How? Humanity can’t add energy to the system. That’s what I mean by “step outside”. To prevent a cold death, energy must be added from outside the system, which by the definitions of “universe” and “science”, is impossible.

We might be able to manipulate things, survive longer,
Click to expand...
Yeah manipulation. cold death is the absolute even distribution of heat. perhaps if humans could manipulate the universe to instead take the course of the big crunch, that will double the life span of the universe. just keep manipulating. humanity is a powerful force of nature.
Padrecito said:
but unless we find a way to transcend the universe, we’ll die with it, eventually.
Click to expand...
why not. believe the bible when it said:

Genesis 11:6
*The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people , and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do , and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. *

If the bible god is true, he would have to sow chaos again to prevent humanity from achieving its ultimate desire. Amen?
 
It would be like Sodom and Gomorra. And before that would happen,
one may inquire of the Lord thus, “Will you destroy the good with the wicked? If there be fifty just men in the city, will you then destroy the place and not spare it for the sake of the fifty just men within it?”
 
AgnosTheist said:
If the bible god is true, he would have to sow chaos again to prevent humanity from achieving its ultimate desire. Amen?
Click to expand...
Nope. Humanity is entirely capable of screwing it up all on its own, as any reading of history demonstrates. Lots of utopias have been proposed and tried and failed miserably.

In my view, it’ll be a miracle if mankind survives to go to the stars.
  • Padrecito
 
Padrecito said:
Nope. Humanity is entirely capable of screwing it up all on its own, as any reading of history demonstrates. Lots of utopias have been proposed and tried and failed miserably.

In my view, it’ll be a miracle if mankind survives to go to the stars.
Click to expand...
I have faith in humanity. Global communication & secular humanism have made the world a lot more peaceful compared to the past.
 
Stephen Hawking got the idea from Monsignor Georges Lemaitre.
Really.
 
Padrecito said:
As I’ve said before, this question has huge implications on theology. If the universe is cyclical, eternal, infinite, or self-creating, then as Stephen Hawking said in his famous volume, A Brief History of Time: "What need of God?"
Click to expand...
Personally, I don’t think the question has any implications for theology at all. The most basic question is “Why is there something rather than nothing?” A universe that is spatially or temporally infinite–that is, not having boundaries, either because it is spherical in nature or because it is a “flat” but infinite universe, is still a contingent being. It might not have existed. It doesn’t account for it’s own existence. Only a non-contingent, non-material Creator which has its being as its essence is sufficient to account for the existence of other things, including the universe.

So, while I like the idea of the Big Bang; and think it is scientifically elegant, I don’t think that theology should hang its hat on the BB. It’s not a solid hanging post.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top