The enemy within

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ribozyme said:
I will base this thread on another IIDB thread:

iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=235145

Do you think that some high ranking officials within the church hierarchy are unbelievers?
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There have been in past centuries - I see no reason why we now should be spared.​

But that is not the real problem. The real problem is the unbelief in the heart of every single Christian: it is something in all people - not something represented by a single identifiable group who can be pointed out. Unbelievers come from unbelievers - whereas if we were all believers, those who are set over us would be as well. We get the clergy & bishops & governors we deserve; just as they get the people they deserve. So “the enemy within” = every single one of us. :o “The enemy within” =//= “them”; because there is no “them”, no group to blame as uniquely the troublers of the Church.

That’s why hounding anyone out is so silly: if there were none of the objectionable group in the Church at all, it would be no healthier. A truly healthy Church wouldn’t have any of us sinners in it :). So it might as well have any & every kind in it - the more so, if we cannot be healed otherwise than by being in it. The notion of an already flawless Church, collides with that of the Church as the community of the redeemed who are gradually being sanctified. On earth at least we can’t have both.
 
I think that’s about one of the goofiest speculations I have ever seen and I’m kinda surprised that the IIB even has it because a lot of those folks are a lot smarter than the average humanoid. 😉

Do I think that everyone down to the floor sweepers are faithful Catholics? I’d like to think so, but there’s a few of things wrong with that.
  1. No one knows every single person in order to find out, and
  2. That’s not my job…it’s God’s, and
  3. Why would it matter? The important people are squared away.
 
Plans to subvert the Church from within has already been documented in Encyclical letters against the Freemasons. See Pope Leo XIII Encyclical

HUMANUM GENUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON FREEMASONRY

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

and what it references
  1. The first warning of the danger was given by Clement XII in the year 1738,(3) and his constitution was confirmed and renewed by Benedict XIV(4) Pius VII followed the same path;(5) and Leo XII, by his apostolic constitution, Quo Graviora,(6) put together the acts and decrees of former Pontiffs on this subject, and ratified and confirmed them forever. In the same sense spoke Pius VIII,(7) Gregory XVI,(8) and, many times over, Pius IX.(9)
 
Steve40 said:
Plans to subvert the Church from within has already been documented in Encyclical letters against the Freemasons. See Pope Leo XIII Encyclical

HUMANUM GENUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON FREEMASONRY

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

and what it references
  1. The first warning of the danger was given by Clement XII in the year 1738,(3) and his constitution was confirmed and renewed by Benedict XIV(4) Pius VII followed the same path;(5) and Leo XII, by his apostolic constitution, Quo Graviora,(6) put together the acts and decrees of former Pontiffs on this subject, and ratified and confirmed them forever. In the same sense spoke Pius VIII,(7) Gregory XVI,(8) and, many times over, Pius IX.(9)
Click to expand...
I wasn’t asking about attempts to destroy the church, but simply people who do not believe (not merely having doubts) and hold a high position such as Bishop or Cardinal. These people wouldn’t try to destroy the Catholic Church, but I think they are the type of people that would say a Mass (and other rituals in a perfunctory fashion) and bless bread while concomitantly denying that it would turn into the body of Christ.
 
ribozyme said:
I wasn’t asking about attempts to destroy the church, but simply people who do not believe (not merely having doubts) and hold a high position such as Bishop or Cardinal. These people wouldn’t try to destroy the Catholic Church, but I think they are the type of people that would say a Mass (and other rituals in a perfunctory fashion) and bless bread while concomitantly denying that it would turn into the body of Christ.
Click to expand...
The plan for destroying the Church is incremental and takes many generations. It includes using ambiguity in doctrine so that error is permitted to creep in. Modernist error including a denial of the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist would weaken the faithful if it was promoted from within. These false doctrines are not openly promoted. They are quietly promoted within some seminaries and at institutions within a diocese such as where deacons are trained.

A Bishop may not openly promote heresy himself but he would appoint instructors who would teach these things including teaching against the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and the perpetual virginity of Mary.

If these teaching are openly disputed within a deaconate class, the student will be asked to leave the program. One reason they have been told for their dismissal is that they do not embrace the spirit of Vatican II. Vatican II is a corner stone for heretics because some of the documents can be interpreted in such a way that leads to error.

To see heretic Bishops don’t look at what they say, look at what the people under them are openly saying without a rebuke from the Bishop.

Ultimately this strategy will not work because the liberals/modernist are having difficulty reproducing (i.e. the decline in vocations in these diocese).

Bishop Fulton Shean was correct when he said the number of vocations is directly related to the holiness of the Bishop.
 
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