The Enterprise is back... at least for a while

[tomarin]

Let’s try to fix that. It is pretty disheartening not to be able to communicate. Pick any topic you wish to talk about, and let’s just do it.

Okay but I think I’ll start a new thread for that (in the philosophy section) – just for the sake of not distracting from the conversation so far. The question I’d like to discuss is “what is a well-lived life”.

 

[Spock]

Okay but I think I’ll start a new thread for that (in the philosophy section) – just for the sake of not distracting from the conversation so far. The question I’d like to discuss is “what is a well-lived life”.

Sounds wonderful. Go for it.

 

[donsnow]

Dictionaries are a good start. But they are not the final arbiter of what words mean. Also the dictionaries simply rattle off the different uses of words, but that is usually insufficient for deeper understanding.

Then, if dictionaries do not finally arbitrate what a word means, there is no common ground. Because, there is no other common arbitrator.
And, maybe sometimes the understanding of people on this Philosophy forum goes too deep … the old, “too much of a good thing.”

Those old maxims have lasted so long because they still fit human conditions.

Just my two cents’ worth.

 

[donsnow]

I’ll jump in here just long enough to comment on the "common meanings of words etc issue.

Each and every person is going to bring to a given conversation, not just the “common meanings”, or “dictionary meanings” of words, but also their own, “emotionally influenced meaning”. No amount of trying to “define” a common definition between believers and non-believers will ultimately solve this completely. Why? Because, even if those currently here agree on common terms and meanings, as an open forum, there will constantly be new people coming in who have not “learned” this agreed upon language.

What is needed instead is the patience on both sides to work carefully and charitably with each other to improve understanding.

Naturally this will involve much explaining of why certain words are used in certain ways and in certain contexts by certain individuals coming from differing backgrounds.
So the answer here is not creating a new “language” or new “dictionary” for use here, but rather a deisre to communicate clearly and with patience, understanding and a desire to understand the other fellow’s view.

Just my 2 cents

Peace
James

I stand corrected on my two posts to Spock.
Thank you.

God loves you,
Don

 

[donsnow]

Because we would start with “tabula rasa”, without preconceptions, and with a methodical approach we could discern the meaning of it.

Using the previous example, the proposition “God loves us” is meaningless if one considers “love” as it is generally accepted. And worse than meaningless, misleading. If you would substitute “love” with a brand new word (make one up, if you feel like it), the sentence would not become meaningful without further clarification, but at least it would not not be confusing, and that is a good start. During the clarification process (which might take some time) you could enlighten us just what this new word means, and then we could have a mutually acceptable starting position.

I think we can work with the word love, Some poet said, “Love is a many splendored thing.”

In other words, there are different kinds of love. I’ll start with Divine love. And, if you don’t like it, fine, but don’t say it’s not love. That’s a trap of Satan, and I won’t fall for it even if you have.
Then, there’s parental love.
Then there’s sibling love
Then there’s a child’s selfish love for its parents.
Then, there’s friendship love.
Then, there’s sexual love.
Most other types of love are variation of the above.

God is the perfect parent and a good example for human parents. If I had children and somebody treated them like Satan treats God’s children, I’d devise an eternal punishment for that person and all those fool enough to follow him, too. LIkewise, in Matt 25, 41, Jesus consigns evil doers and those who refuse to do good to the lake of fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (emphasis mine). Hell fire was never meant for people. It was meant only for the Tormentor and his followers.
Only if you’ve ever been a parent, have you any place to speak on parental love knowingly.

Atheists make most of their problems for themselves on this forum. What I have written in this and the previous posts are to point out what both sides do wrong.

I won’t put up with hearing my God judged by His creatures. We’re all made in His image. We each have the choice of what to do with the image in which we are made. We can lie to ourselves, but don’t count on fooling other than yourself, if you do this, and say there’s no God in whose image to be made. That’s a lie of Satan.
I will point out that evil person’s poison wherever I see it, even here.

In closing, you must allow the Christians to hold their own common ground, and use scriptural references, otherwise you gag our replies. I only accept gag orders from judges and this is not a court room.
Then, there’s friendship love.

 

[david_friol_1]

It has been quite a long time since I participated on the board. I viewed some of the threads, however, and I see the very same problems as before.

To wit: there is no common set of definitions to build upon. Theists and atheists use the same word but do not use them in the same meaning. Not even such simple words as “love”, or “existence”, or “faith”. The same misconceptions are abound, like confusing “materialism” and “reductionism”. The same non-arguments are presented, like bringing up a scriptural reference as if that would constitute an “argument”.

Sad state of affairs indeed. Why not try to build a common ground, so some meaningful conversations could take place?

Hey Spock
Common ground is a give and take situation and it does require a certain fairness in what is assumed by one side about the other side. Hint Hint wink wink
God bless you Spock

 

[mellestad]

It has been quite a long time since I participated on the board. I viewed some of the threads, however, and I see the very same problems as before.

To wit: there is no common set of definitions to build upon. Theists and atheists use the same word but do not use them in the same meaning. Not even such simple words as “love”, or “existence”, or “faith”. The same misconceptions are abound, like confusing “materialism” and “reductionism”. The same non-arguments are presented, like bringing up a scriptural reference as if that would constitute an “argument”.

Sad state of affairs indeed. Why not try to build a common ground, so some meaningful conversations could take place?

The assumptions go back to dualism and free will. I think we can understand one another, but without resolving that difference not many are going to change their opinion. Perspective is radically different on a philosophical level and the differences snowball from that disagreement.

 

[ronnie_bonigli]

Hey Spock
Common ground is a give and take situation and it does require a certain fairness in what is assumed by one side about the other side. Hint Hint wink wink
God bless you Spock

What’s with bumping all Spock’s old threads? Got an obsession or something?