The entrance of the Soul

[mdcpensive1]

I am asking for help on this subject because I have a very good friend that is needing some information on the teaching of the Church concerning when the soul enters the body. We are all told that at the time of conception a person is there because the soul is placed there by God. Her concern is that in trying to teach this she cannot find references for documentation. Her parish priest is not a help on this and other people she has used as resources have sometimes been a hinderence.

Therefore I ask those of you who have been blessed with the gift of knowledge in this matter to help out for she is one who touches many people and is concerned with abortions and life of the unborn. She has just received a personal hand written letter from Cardinal Arinze, but not on this matter.

mdcpensive1

 

[Eucharisted]

Science teaches life begins at conception.
Ergo, the soul is created at conception.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Science teaches life begins at conception.

Ergo, the soul is created at conception.

Probably except for the supreme court, we know something begins at conception but, is it human life. When does human life begin or when does the soul enter to be HUMAN life that is to be protected?

Does the Church get her understanding from Aquinas or Augustin??? How do we understand the passage “I knew you from my mother’s womb”?

Priests for life have said they are interested in this so I humbly ask anyone if they have an understanding of how the Church defines the beginning of life to please share their knowledge.

Thanks Eucharisted for replying.

mdcpensive1

 

[thistle]

Probably except for the supreme court, we know something begins at conception but, is it human life. When does human life begin or when does the soul enter to be HUMAN life that is to be protected?

Does the Church get her understanding from Aquinas or Augustin??? How do we understand the passage “I knew you from my mother’s womb”?

Priests for life have said they are interested in this so I humbly ask anyone if they have an understanding of how the Church defines the beginning of life to please share their knowledge.

Thanks Eucharisted for replying.

mdcpensive1

Eucharisted is correct.

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection

 

[catharina]

One of the greatest doctrines available to Catholics in this area of Catholic Teaching is the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. This concerns our Blessed Mother’s conception being free from original sin from the first moment of her existence, that is, from the instant of her conception. This is one of the few defined, declared, infallible teachings of the Church and I’ve often wondered why we, in pro-life work, do not point to this teaching more often.

It was given to (defined by) the Church a full 100 years before abortion became the ‘law’ in many places.

The Feast is celebrated on December 8th. It’s a Holy Day of obligation in the USA.

 

[Shin]

It’s basic Church teaching that a body without a soul is dead – in other words, the first moment you’re alive, that’s when you gain your soul – the moment your soul leaves, that’s when you’re truly dead.

Nothing lives without a soul.

Therefor it is clear that you gain your soul at conception.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Eucharisted is correct.

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life

Thank you Thistle for your reply. The Church teaches about the soul being created, but where does one find this teaching???

mdcpensive1

 

[mdcpensive1]

It’s basic Church teaching that a body without a soul is dead – in other words, the first moment you’re alive, that’s when you gain your soul – the moment your soul leaves, that’s when you’re truly dead.

Nothing lives without a soul.

Shin, does the Church use this type of logical thinking to define it’s beliefs??? I still need help.

mdcpensive1

 

[Shin]

Shin, does the Church use this type of logical thinking to define it’s beliefs??? I still need help.

mdcpensive1

Yes, normally this is what you will find in Scholastic or doctrinal language.

You don’t need to go further than ‘the Immaculate Conception’ to know the answer to this one.

 

[thistle]

Thank you Thistle for your reply. The Church teaches about the soul being created, but where does one find this teaching???

mdcpensive1

I quoted the Church teaching to you. These quotes are from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Yes, normally this is what you will find in Scholastic or doctrinal language.

You don’t need to go further than ‘the Immaculate Conception’ to know the answer to this one.

I wonder if we told a protestant that he or she should believe in the Immaculate Conception to understand the beginning of human life what they would say???

I guess they would say where do you get that understanding?? I don’t follow.

mdcpensive1

 

[mdcpensive1]

I quoted the Church teaching to you. These quotes are from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Thanks thisle, it is in the catechism but I am still wondering about how the Church developed the belief that put it in the catechism. Is there more than “tradition”? Are there Church Councils???

mdcpensive1

 

[mdcpensive1]

And BTW, thank you for your patience with me.

mdcpensive1

 

[RobbyS]

One of the greatest doctrines available to Catholics in this area of Catholic Teaching is the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. This concerns our Blessed Mother’s conception being free from original sin from the first moment of her existence, that is, from the instant of her conception. This is one of the few defined, declared, infallible teachings of the Church and I’ve often wondered why we, in pro-life work, do not point to this teaching more often.

It was given to (defined by) the Church a full 100 years before abortion became the ‘law’ in many places.

The Feast is celebrated on December 8th. It’s a Holy Day of obligation in the USA.

The dogma was also defined just about the same time that scientists were finding out how conception took place. Doctors, not churchmen, were responsible for getting the Texas legisature to make it illegal for a doctor to perform an abortion. This took place in 1856.

 

[thistle]

Thanks thisle, it is in the catechism but I am still wondering about how the Church developed the belief that put it in the catechism. Is there more than “tradition”? Are there Church Councils???

mdcpensive1

Pius XII, Humani Generis: DS 3896; Paul VI, CPG § 8; Lateran Council V (1513): DS 1440.

 

[catharina]

Thanks thisle, it is in the catechism but I am still wondering about how the Church developed the belief that put it in the catechism. Is there more than “tradition”? Are there Church Councils???

mdcpensive1

The Catholic Church gives us both Scripture and Tradition.

Luke: 1 26 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” 34 But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 35 And the angel said to her in reply, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.”

All in one statement: Mary will conceive … Whom?
She is told Who the Baby is.
Not Who He will become after two, three or our months of pregnancy …
Rather, WHO HE IS.

I can’t imagine that any Christian would deny this.

 

[mdcpensive1]

The Catholic Church gives us both Scripture and Tradition.

Luke: 1 26 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. 30 Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son

You are so right catharina, but if I might play the devil’s advocate someone might say they believe she WILL conceive and BEAR a son. The BEARING is what they might say comes later at the time of birth.

The child TO BE BORN could be conceived as a later instance at least to someone wanting to promote abortions.

If only more people understood the Church’s teachings things would be much better. We pay a price for our actions that are against the will of God. For example, if there were not so many abortions there would not be such an issue of who will be paying for social security in the future. More younger people with jobs will be supporting more elderly by paying the SS taxes. I think abortions had something to do with limiting the younger population that would be paying into the trust fund. Just my humble opinion.

mdcpensive1

 

[mdcpensive1]

Pius XII, Humani Generis: DS 3896; Paul VI, CPG § 8; Lateran Council V (1513): DS 1440.

thisle, this is exactly what I needed. I want to thank you for all your research and help. I just hope I may be of similar service to you sometime.

mdcpensive1

 

[catharina]

You are so right catharina, but if I might play the devil’s advocate someone might say they believe she WILL conceive and BEAR a son. The BEARING is what they might say comes later at the time of birth.

The child TO BE BORN could be conceived as a later instance at least to someone wanting to promote abortions.

The Child to be born, must first be CONCEIVED.
No Conception, No Birth. So simple.

If only more people understood the Church’s teachings things would be much better. We pay a price for our actions that are against the will of God. For example, if there were not so many abortions there would not be such an issue of who will be paying for social security in the future. More younger people with jobs will be supporting more elderly by paying the SS taxes. I think abortions had something to do with limiting the younger population that would be paying into the trust fund. Just my humble opinion.

mdcpensive1

 

[OrthodoxLiturgy]

aquinas in question 76 of the summa talks about this but because of bad science of his time he thinks that its at 40 days. however. analytical thomists have concluded that if thosas were to have been alive today, his proof for the ensoulment of a child would have been at conception.

Philosophy (2003) 75 pg 233 i think ill look it up