The Epistles of St. Peter and the Papacy

[sandusky]

I’m having great difficulty finding this writing of his. Can you point me towards it? Thanks.

NPNF is online Here.

 

[Lampo]

God is conspicuously absent in your thinking; isn’t He?

No. What would make you think that? The fact that I reference His Church is “proof enough” that He is in my thinking when I typed that sentence.

]
That would be God, of course; wouldn’t you agree?

So you could say, “God determined that God intended for there to be written Scripture”?? I would say that God used the Catholic Church to determine the Canon of Scripture.

It means that those with a high view of God understand that nothing occurs apart from His will; therefore, if, as you claim, there are 33,000+ Christian denominations, then it is according to God’s purpose.

You think He wills evil?

Those with a low view of God, engage in lip-biting, and hand-wringing concerning such things; they worry, believing that such things are out of control, rather than under the control of the sovereign God.

Whose definitions are these? Yours?

Then the misunderstanding is yours; nothing prohibits the one who subscribes to “Bible Alone” from using sources outside of the Bible.

Oh, so there must be an official, authoritative definition and set of guidlines of sola scriptura that all protestants use. Where can I find this?

 

[whatistruth]

Maybe Paul was just more detail oriented than Peter, but I can’t see why Peter wouldn’t at least start off his epistles by mentioning he was Pope. Didn’t most of the epistles start off with the author describing what title they held?

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ…”

Peter was humble. He would never boast about who he was. Look at his humilty in John 21:15-19. Also, if you read carefully in Mark’s Gospel you would read it and think negatively bout Peter when in fact who was the source of Mark’s Gospel? Peter was and Matthew trumps his humility by showing how jesus elevates his role as the keeper of the Kingdom of God here on earth. It is very clear in the book of Acts who everyone saw as the leader, good ol’ humble Saint Peter!

 

[Lampo]

NPNF is online Here.

Thanks again.

 

[Lampo]

NPNF is online Here.

Sorry to bore you with this, but am I getting close here?
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf102.html

 

[Lampo]

I’m beginning to think this was made up or taken out of context. I still can’t find it.

Here’s a quote from Augustine:

You ought to notice particularly and store I your memory that God wanted to lay a firm foundation in the Scriptures against treacherous errors, a foundation against which no one dares to speak who would in any way be considered a Christian. For when He offered Himself to them to touch, this did not suffice Him unless He also confirmed the heart of the believers from the Scriptures, for He foresaw that the time would come when we would not have anything to touch but would have something to read. - In Epistolam Johannis tractus, 2. NPNF Series I, VII:469.

 

[Lampo]

In Epistolam Johannis tractus, 2. NPNF Series I, VII:469.

Is 469 the page number?

 

[sandusky]

Lampo:

No. What would make you think that? The fact that I reference His Church is “proof enough” that He is in my thinking when I typed that sentence.

Because it’s always about the church for you.

Lampo:

So you could say, “God determined that God intended for there to be written Scripture”?? I would say that God used the Catholic Church to determine the Canon of Scripture.

That’s different—God used the church to discover what became the canon.

Lampo:

You think He wills evil?

Why would you equate 33,000+ denominations with evil; your church doesn’t; they refer to them as ”separated brethren.” Are you in disagreement with your church on that?

Lampo:

Whose definitions are these? Yours?

Gleaned from the examples and instructions of what befell Israel (1 Cor 10).

How would you define a “high view,” as opposed to a “low view” of God?

Lampo:

Oh, so there must be an official, authoritative definition and set of guidlines of sola scriptura that all protestants use. Where can I find this?

There is within my church, and within those that are like-minded, and that subscribe to sola scriptura.

You can get this book, written by a variety of men who subscribe to ,sola scriptura and who are from different churches.

Lampo:

I’m beginning to think this was made up or taken out of context. I still can’t find it.

Of course you’re thinking that.

(Click on the smilie)

 

[Lampo]

Because it’s always about the church for you.

I can’t talk about the Church without talking about God at the same time.

Why would you equate 33,000+ denominations with evil; your church doesn’t; they refer to them as ”separated brethren.” Are you in disagreement with your church on that?

Where did I say 33,000+ denominations is evil? I didn’t. You said, “those with a high view of God understand that nothing occurs apart from His will.” Evil occurs. So “those with a high view” think God wills evil.

There is within my church, and within those that are like-minded, and that subscribe to sola scriptura.

But not ALL Protestant churches. So their isn’t a place that I can go to that speaks for all Protestant churches on the false doctrine of sola scriptura. Or does your church speak for all other Protestant denominations?

You can get this book, written by a variety of men who subscribe to sola scriptura, and who are from different churches.

So THIS is the official, authoritative source I use to find out what all Protestant churches believe sola scriptura is?

Of course you’re thinking that.

(Click on the smilie)

Thanks again. I will read this.

 

[sandusky]

Lampo:

I can’t talk about the Church without talking about God at the same time.

OK.

Lampo:

Where did I say 33,000+ denominations is evil?

You brought up evil from the context of my answering your question concerning 33,000+ denominations by saying that those with a “high view” of God considered 33,000+ denominations to be His purpose.

Lampo:

But not ALL Protestant churches.

Correct; I’m not speaking for every protestant church.

Lampo:

So THIS is the official, authoritative source I use to find out what all Protestant churches believe sola scriptura is?

No; only those that subscribe to sola scriptura, and particularly, those churches represented by the writers of the book.

 

[Lampo]

Well, that quote…

You ought to notice particularly and store I your memory that God wanted to lay a firm foundation in the Scriptures against treacherous errors, a foundation against which no one dares to speak who would in any way be considered a Christian. For when He offered Himself to them to touch, this did not suffice Him unless He also confirmed the heart of the believers from the Scriptures, for He foresaw that the time would come when we would not have anything to touch but would have something to read. - In Epistolam Johannis tractus, 2. NPNF Series I, VII:469.

…is not in that piece you linked. But I did find this one:

When we say to them, If ye be Catholic Christians, communicate with that Church from which the Gospel is spread abroad over the whole earth:

Are you making this up?

 

[Lampo]

You brought up evil from the context of my answering your question concerning 33,000+ denominations by saying that those with a “high view” of God considered 33,000+ denominations to be His purpose.

That doesn’t mean I think Protestant denominations are evil.

No; only those that subscribe to sola scriptura, and particularly, those churches represented by the writers of the book.

What? You just answered no, then yes to the same question. Let’s try this again. That source you gave me written by a variety of men who subscribe to sola scriptura is the official authority for all Protestant churches that subscribe to sola scriptura?

 

[sandusky]

Lampo:

Are you making this up?

Sorry, I had the statement jotted down from a different translation than the NPNF.

Go back to the link, and from your edit button, find this phrase—exactly as I’ve type it: (a thing which ye ought especially to observe

 

[sandusky]

Lampo:

That doesn’t mean I think Protestant denominations are evil.

Good.

Lampo:

What? You just answered no, then yes to the same question. Let’s try this again. That source you gave me written by a variety of men who subscribe to sola scriptura is the official authority for all Protestant churches that subscribe to sola scriptura?

It seems that you have difficulty understanding English.

I suggest that you go back, re-read, and try as hard as you can to understand what I’ve said; it’s very clear, and not at all in line with your interpretation. Take as much as time as you need.

 

[Lampo]

Sorry, I had the statement jotted down from a different translation than the NPNF.

Go back to the link, and from your edit button, find this phrase—exactly as I’ve type it: (a thing which ye ought especially to observe

No problem. Thanks again. How do you get that understanding that Augustin thought that Jesus intended men to write down everything He said and did in a book to give everyone to interpret for themselves from this?:

(a thing which ye ought especially to observe, and to commit to your memory, because that which shall make us strong against insidious errors, God has been pleased to put in the Scriptures, against which no man dares to speak, who in any sort wishes to seem a Christian)

 

[Lampo]

Good.
sandusky;2882909:

It seems that you have difficulty understanding English.

I NORMALLY don’t.

I suggest that you go back, re-read, and try as hard as you can to understand what I’ve said; it’s very clear, and not at all in line with your interpretation. Take as much as time as you need.

Thanks for your patience. I did re-read it for about the 5th time. I figured my statement…

So THIS is the official, authoritative source I use to find out what all Protestant churches believe sola scriptura is?

…was implying that I was referring to Protestant churches that subscribe to sola scriptura.

 

[sandusky]

Lampo:

No problem. Thanks again. How do you get that understanding that Augustin thought that Jesus intended men to write down everything He said and did in a book to give everyone to interpret for themselves from this?

Let’s include the entire quote, and a question posed by Augustine at the end of the quotea thing which ye ought especially to observe, and to commit to your memory, because that which shall make us strong against insidious errors, God has been pleased to put in the Scriptures, against which no man dares to speak, who in any sort wishes to seem a Christian), when He had given Himself to be handled by them, that did not suffice Him, but He would also confirm by means of the Scriptures the heart of them that believe: for He looked forward to us who should be afterwards; seeing that in Him we have nothing that we can handle, but have that which we may read. For if those believed only because they held and handled, what shall we do?It would seem that Augustine thought that God intended for people to do more with His revelation than let it sit on a bookshelf; wouldn’t you agree?

 

[sandusky]

Lampo:

I NORMALLY don’t.
Thanks for your patience. I did re-read it for about the 5th time. I figured my statement was implying that I was referring to Protestant churches that subscribe to sola scriptura.

I’m not speaking for every single protestant church—I don’t know what every single protestant church teaches.

.

 

[RebeccaJ]

That was so obscure that even the apostles did not get it. Such a radical idea that Jesus is God deserves a statement that is a million times clearer. “I AM GOD!” No mistaking it. Direct to the point.

Timothy got it.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Of course not. You can’t manage a ship that holds a billion people the same way you manage a rowboat. That doesn’t change the underlying principle.

Peter was a missionary, not a manager. A team player, not an overlord. A council member, not a pope. He obeyed orders and sometimes gave them. He rebukes and gotten rebuked.