The ethics of prostylizing as it relates to LDS methodologies

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To the example of what happened to your daughter - well meaning over aggressive members are all to common. The most appropriate action that could have been taken by this member would have been to send your daughter home with a call card (so she could call the missionaries on her own) and followed up with it only once. Further in her over aggressiveness male missionaries should not have been sent, they should have sent “sister” missionaries. All that said, sending missionaries and then harassing her at work about it is IMO, in context, a form of bullying. Which is a means of manipulation.
🤷 What’s done is done. She doesn’t have a Mormon membership record to follow her around in life. I think she’s seen the last of the ward and any other Mormon proselytizers, are just part of living in Utah. She knows what to do.
 
So…

Two of our kids are good friends with two kids from a Morman family ( I will call them the 1st Morman family) who are the same age. We have known their family for 6 years, they are moral, good people. I have asked my older boy (now in high school) several times through the years if they have ever tried to talk to him about religion; they never have. We did as a family attend the the younger Morman kid’s baptism.

In the last 2 years my boy (high school-er) and the Morman friend have participated in a small team activity together along with another Morman kid (2nd Morman family) and several other kids from the high school. We have gotten to know the 2nd Morman family over the last year (but our kids are not as close).

This week, out of the blue, the 2nd Morman family kid’s mom sent us a link to a beautiful video about Jesus’s sacrifice for our sins produced by the Morman church (link to the Morman site at the end). We have never discussed matters of faith with this 2nd Morman family. I said to my wife I might send a Catholic video back, but she didn’t like the idea.

And today the 1st Morman’s family mom mentioned on the phone that her husband might go to our Catholic Good Friday liturgy to see what this “Mass thing” was all about. I believe his dad (the grandpa) is a “bishop” or something in Utah.

My first reaction was that it would be good if he did go to the Catholic liturgy…perhaps he was thinking of converting? But after reading this thread (especially RebeccaJ’s post), perhaps this is a coordinated effort to convert me/ my wife/ or kids? By going to the Catholic liturgy perhaps he was trying to open a discussion about Mormanism? We did not see him there.

BTW the door-knocking Mormans never stop at my house because I use it as an opportunity to try to raise questions in the mind of the younger Morman who shows up… The older one will say “OK we see that you have your own beliefs” and will usher the younger one away. My wife however is not as knowledgeable about the Catholic (or Morman for that matter) faith as I am. I am concerned. Any thoughts?
 
Actually, like ~55% of Mormons are international nowadays. Even General Conference talks are given over the pulpit in multiple languages.

One very large aspect of the Mormon faith is that it’s not just a “thing” you do for an hour on Sunday, and then go live godlessly the rest of the 99.4% of the time. It’s supposed to (but doesn’t always succeed) to foster a relationship with Christ that penetrates the very core of you life. That’s one reason, for me, to shut up about God is to shut up a critical part of the foundation of who I am. For example: my relationship with Jesus teaches me to be kind and respectful of all others (even sinners and jerks) because of their worth to God.
My Catholic faith is not a thing I do for an hour then I go live godlessly. My point is I can be around people of all backgrounds and have an enjoyable time and not talk about religion if it’s not appropriate.

People know by how I conduct myself where I stand with things but I am not judgmental.

Some (former) Mormons I know used to tell me how lucky I was to be able to do anything I wanted all week because I could just go to confession on Saturday.
btw- these same people are now divorced and live a much wilder life than I ever did :rolleyes:
 
🤷 Like I said, you just never know what the true intentions are. The next thing would be a BoM showing up at your house, then missionaries asking for your wife, which if they are received, that will be shortly followed (within 1 or 2 weeks) by the missionaries asking your wife to get baptized.

IF red flags are going off in your mind, I’d go with what you are sensing.
 
You sound like some (former) Mormons I know that used to tell me how lucky I was to be able to anything I wanted all week because I could just go to confession on Saturday.
Funny thing about that “you can just go to confession” thing. I remember a number of times in my life when thinking of “letting go” where the thought of following through and then saying out loud to another person what I had done put the brakes on the whole situation. The very idea of confession sometimes led me to the conclusion that that is not the kind of behavior I want to own.🤷
 
So…
My first reaction was that it would be good if he did go to the Catholic liturgy…perhaps he was thinking of converting? But after reading this thread (especially RebeccaJ’s post), perhaps this is a coordinated effort to convert me/ my wife/ or kids? By going to the Catholic liturgy perhaps he was trying to open a discussion about Mormanism? We did not see him there.
Well, you have two options before you:
  1. Be paranoid of some possible manipulative scheme based upon stories you heard online.
  2. Or you can ask your friend himself why he wants to go.
As I posted earlier, attending Station of the Cross with my friend growing up was part of a very beautiful open friendship between us. She and I are no longer friends, but even today I dropped by the Catholic church in my new town to see what it was like and to talk to the people there. I just wanted to see the beauty there.
. I said to my wife I might send a Catholic video back, but she didn’t like the idea.
You should totally send a video back!!! Now is the time to celebrate the sacrifice and resurrection of our Lord! Don’t go and shove your joy under a bushel.
I believe his dad (the grandpa) is a “bishop” or something in Utah.
FYI: a Mormon bishop is not the same thing as a Catholic bishop. A Mormon bishop is a guy with a day job, who works part time as the priest leading the local congregation for a few years, and then someone else takes a turn. He leads the congregation and (hopefully) keeps things organized, but doesn’t get paid, doesn’t give the sermons every week, and probably is married with kids.

Just trying to help with the dictionary translations 🙂
BTW the door-knocking Mormans never stop at my house because I use it as an opportunity to try to raise questions in the mind of the younger Morman who shows up… The older one will say “OK we see that you have your own beliefs” and will usher the younger one away.
Interesting that you can pick out which is the older one of the pair. There’s usually just a few months difference. And the older one isn’t always the one in charge.
 
Unless they are on splits with quorum members. Then there is at least a few years difference.
 
Paranoia would be a correct label, if it weren’t for the facts. Mormons target our families, and will do so with their ambition to convert, hidden. It’s how it is, and is not paranoia but a reality of relationships with LDS members.
 
When I lived in a highly LDS populated area, 70% or more, when the young missionaries came to the door I would tell them I’m Catholic and would be happy to put on a pot of coffee and talk about my faith with them. Didn’t get many visits 🤷
 
Paranoia would be a correct label, if it weren’t for the facts. Mormons target our families, and will do so with their ambition to convert, hidden. It’s how it is, and is not paranoia but a reality of relationships with LDS members.
I’m not denying that some Mormons will do make friendship and gestures just for missionary efforts.

But that is not all Mormons, and we should not stereotype an entire population based off a few people. There is diversity in Mormon people.

For example, I actively encourage one of my friends to attend an non-denominational mega church she’s taken a fancy to (one of those with smoke machines, strobe lights, and kill-your-ear-drum speakers). I ask her how church was, talk about the sermons with her, and intend to attend with her next time I’m in town. I see the good going to that church has done for her, nurturing the flame of faith which had previously been starving in her. I’m so happy for the positive difference it’s made in her life, and tell her so. I’m not sneaky about anything (I literally announced what I’m doing).

I_trust, if someone is your friend, shouldn’t you be able to ask someone what their intentions are?
 
I’m not denying that some Mormons will do make friendship and gestures just for missionary efforts.

But that is not all Mormons, and we should not stereotype an entire population based off a few people. There is diversity in Mormon people.

For example, I actively encourage one of my friends to attend an non-denominational mega church she’s taken a fancy to (one of those with smoke machines, strobe lights, and kill-your-ear-drum speakers). I ask her how church was, talk about the sermons with her, and intend to attend with her next time I’m in town. I see the good going to that church has done for her, nurturing the flame of faith which had previously been starving in her. I’m so happy for the positive difference it’s made in her life, and tell her so. I’m not sneaky about anything (I literally announced what I’m doing).

I_trust, if someone is your friend, shouldn’t you be able to ask someone what their intentions are?
Like I said, you never know. Which means, not all Mormons are alike. I tend to ere on the side of caution. Sorry, but that is how it is after living in Utah for a lifetime, and raising a family here. Any non-Mormon here knows, you have to always be on guard against Mormons trying to convert your family members.
 
Side note: XuDan, I really would recommend getting your name taken off the rolls. It’s easily done with a letter and would really help you out with unwanted visits.
Why should “getting your name taken off the rolls” be necessary for this? Shouldn’t “Leave me and my family alone - I’m not interested” be enough? Just sayin’…
 
Why should “getting your name taken off the rolls” be necessary for this? Shouldn’t “Leave me and my family alone - I’m not interested” be enough? Just sayin’…
It’s that way it is with the vast majority of churches.

Many don’t resign for a variety of reasons, one of the biggest is the desire to not upset parents, spouses or other family members. I resigned but I don’t think that people should be required to jump through the LDS church’s hoops simply to be left alone.

The reality is that while resignation generally ensures that people will be left alone, it is no guarantee. I was contacted by members of the ward far more often after I resigned than before. The only thing that has changed is that the stake president doesn’t knock on my door anymore.
 
Why should “getting your name taken off the rolls” be necessary for this? Shouldn’t “Leave me and my family alone - I’m not interested” be enough? Just sayin’…
It’s that way it is with the vast majority of churches.

Many don’t resign for a variety of reasons, one of the biggest is the desire to not upset parents, spouses or other family members. I resigned but I don’t think that people should be required to jump through the LDS church’s hoops simply to be left alone.

The reality is that while resignation generally ensures that people will be left alone, it is no guarantee. I was contacted by members of the ward far more often after I resigned than before. The only thing that has changed is that the stake president doesn’t knock on my door anymore.
Exactly. I jumped through the hoops, and nothing at the ward level changed. The ward still harasses me 7 years later.
 
Exactly. I jumped through the hoops, and nothing at the ward level changed. The ward still harasses me 7 years later.
Nooooooooo!!! :banghead:

I thought I was going to be free of harassment when two “friends” from the ward stopped trying to do things with me towards the end of 2013. They knew I was very sure about becoming Catholic at that point, and I think they finally figured out that I wasn’t coming back.

Fast forward to last Christmas. Each of these two “friends” showed up on my doorstep at different times. Was it coordinated? I have no idea. One came by to give me a Christmas craft she had made with other Relief Society ladies. The other came a week later to invite us to a New Year’s Eve party. I tried really hard to be polite and kind, but it was all very strange. I had already bought a bottle of champagne so there was no way I was going to skip out on drinking it New Year’s Eve!

I don’t really want random visits at odd times without warning from anyone much less Mormons who are trying to get me to come back. Hopefully I’ll have some peace this year, but I suspect not.
 
Why should “getting your name taken off the rolls” be necessary for this? Shouldn’t “Leave me and my family alone - I’m not interested” be enough? Just sayin’…
Could one of the knowledgeable folks here, speak to what a baptized Catholic must do to no longer be considered a baptized Catholic by the Catholic church and its members?
 
Could one of the knowledgeable folks here, speak to what a baptized Catholic must do to no longer be considered a baptized Catholic by the Catholic church and its members?
As we believe in one baptism, once baptized Catholic, always baptized Catholic. However if a Catholic makes the decision to leave the Church there us nothing formal he/she must do. Outside of family and friends questioning them, there is no harassment.

In addition should they decide to come home to the Catholic Church, all they need to do is come back. Probably will need to go to Reconciliation if they feel they need to.

You see…its a lot like God. He gives us free will to make decisions and always let’s us come back, forgives us and let’s us know His love will always be the constant. No human made hoops to jump through with that God :harp:
 
Could one of the knowledgeable folks here, speak to what a baptized Catholic must do to no longer be considered a baptized Catholic by the Catholic church and its members?
There is nothing one can do, because baptism is permanent. We Catholics believe that baptism is not merely symbolic. The individual actually receives divine grace. Baptism makes one an adopted son or daughter of God. It washes away original sin. This cannot be undone, no matter what the individual does with their life. They can reject God of their own free will, but that does not make them “unbaptized.” This stands in contrast to the LDS concept of baptism. For them baptism is not permanent, because a Mormon who is excommunicated has their baptism nullified, and must therefore be “re baptized” to come back into the fold. Also, Mormons get excommunicated far more frequently than Catholics. For Catholics, excommunication is reserved for extremely serious offenses, and is very rare.
 
One very large aspect of the Mormon faith is that it’s not just a “thing” you do for an hour on Sunday, and then go live godlessly the rest of the 99.4% of the time.
I’ve heard other LDS say the exact same thing. You guys must be learning somewhere in talks or Sunday school that this somehow makes you unique compared to Christian churches. It doesn’t. It’s an arrogant statement because it implies that Christian churches are lacking commitment the Mormons have. Whether you realize it or not, that is what you are saying. Take away mandatory tithing in order to receive a temple recommend or “mandatory” callings and LDS are just like everybody else. Mormons have all the same problems too, no matter what fassad members may put up.
 
Anyway, it seems that the entire Ward leadership has gotten together and set a goal for the collective Ward to invite 20 families or individuals to receive the discussions, each quarter, or 80 for the year
This was posted by a disaffected Mormon on another board, is this ethical?
The email details how each organization is going to devote at least some of their activities to this goal, i.e. YW/YM will have a special activity designed for non-members. The EQ/RS will sign up to volunteer for a community service project with the goal of meeting non-members to invite, etc… The mission leaders and missionaries will visit each family and train them on how to approach people.
I would not be comfortable if I was asked to do this, I feel it is deceptive to invite someone to an event dressed up as a social occasion or insert my self in someone else’s service work in order to get them to commit to lessons about my faith.
 
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