The Eucharist — Fr. Spitzer

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He reminds us of God’s transcendence of time, probably for this purpose.

If it were purely a natural event, then yes, but as it is not, but a miraculous event, then no.
 
Hope1960 said:
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runningdude:
Father Spitzer is describing a miraculous passage of events or knowledge through time. In the ancient Jewish culture, this was accepted more readily, because the physical properties of space and time were not yet known.

He is stating that the Eucharist is a miracle, but because the change in substance is deeper than can be physically measured, it must be accepted as a tenant of faith.
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Is he saying that science contradicts our faith in transubstantiation in any way?
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No. You are totally mis-understanding him. Fr. Spitzer is a very orthodox priest.

I will post more shortly
 
In the paragraph you are referencing, Fr. Spitzer is not discussing the Eucharist (at least not directly).

What he’s referring to is the Sacrifice at Calvary & the Jewish Passover.

In Jewish theology, the every time the Passover Seder takes place, the family is being “folded” in time in order for their Passover to take place with the first Passover. In other-words, the modern Passover isn’t symbolic nor is it a redoing of the Passover. Instead, space and time are being altered (in a way that breaks General Relativity) for every single Passover Seder throughout time to take place at the same time as the original Passover in Egypt.

In a similar way, every time the Sacrifice at the Altar takes place at Mass, it’s being linked to Jesus on the Cross. Because we do not re-sacrifice Christ at every Mass, nor is it symbolic. Instead, space and time are being “folded” so that every time the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ are being consecrated at Mass, it’s happening with Christ’s sacrifice.

However, the Jewish theology of “time travel” is very specific, which is why the liturgy of the Seder calls for the children and father to talk about the Seder in the present tense and not the past tense.

Anyway… that’s what Father is talking about here. There is a talk from Dr. Scott Hahn where he discusses this with further detail.

I can’t remember which one it is, but it’s one of the following four talks (all 4 are awesome):

www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

The Fourth Cup - Dr. Scott Hahn

Well-known Catholic theologian Dr. Scott Hahn explains Christ's Paschal Sacrifice on the cross as the fulfillment of the traditional fourth cup used in the celebration of the Jewish Passover meal.
www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

The Lamb's Supper - Dr. Scott Hahn

Based on his best-selling book, Dr. Scott Hahn reveals the early Christians' key to understanding the Mass: the Book of Revelation.
www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

Seven Last Sayings of Christ - Dr. Scott Hahn

Spoken as He suffered the agony of the cross, the seven last sayings of Christ recorded in the gospels have been the subject of prayer and inquiry by Christians for two thousand years.
www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

Understanding the Eucharist - Dr. Scott Hahn

Once a militant opponent of the Catholic Church, Dr. Scott Hahn highlights the key misunderstandings people have about the Eucharist.
www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

God bless
 
phil19034 said:
Anyway… that’s what Father is talking about here. There is a talk from Dr. Scott Hahn where he discusses this with further detail.

I can’t remember which one it is, but it’s one of the following four talks (all 4 are awesome):
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Pretty sure it’s “The Fourth Cup.”

I know it’s not the “Lamb’s Supper.”

Scott Hahn is a towering figure in the Church…

If the world is still around in 100 years, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s proclaimed a Saint and Doctor of the Church.
 
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Spyridon said:
If the world is still around in 100 years, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s proclaimed a Saint and Doctor of the Church.
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I don’t know… he’s only well known in the US, and PERHAPS other English speaking nations.

But he is a great teacher of the Catholic faith, for sure!
 
I listened to a Steve Ray talk where he said something along the lines of, if you built a time machine and went back to the time of Jesus, found him, were able to collect a spit or blood sample for him, and analyze its DNA, would you be able to “detect” divinity? No, and same with the Eucharist. Jesus was fully human and fully divine, just as the Eucharist is fully bread and fully divine.
 
I understand the comparison, but to be clear, the Church teaches that the bread is gone after the consecration, replaced by Jesus in his entirety. If by “fully bread,” one means that all the accidents of bread remain, but only as accidents, then the statement would be understandable.
 
Yes, accidents, as in the host has not turned into meat. I guess another way to look at it is that in the Last Supper accounts in the Gospels, when Jesus says “this is my body,” well, the bread still remains bread in His hands. It does not appear as “meat” or anything different in the Upper Room. So if Jesus Himself did not change the bread into a different physical accident in the Gospels, I’m not sure what the worry is about here.
 
We can recognize what Jesus is telling us about The Eucharist in knowing Christology. He is True God and True Man.
Consider the miracle of The Divine Liturgy, The Eucharistic Meal, in terms of fulfillment of The Law. On the road to Emmaus Jesus is recognized in the breaking of of the bread, He is the Living Bread come down from heaven. The Lamb of God is then not only present in time as the seder meal happens at The Passover, in the time of Moses and salvation from slavery. The Eucharist happens at The Last Supper and Calvary in this same sense of particular time. Moreover, space and substance itself happens, becomes Incarnate, lives within the accidents of bread and wine. Salvation from sin is at the foot of the cross, every time The Eucharist is celebrated. The Lamb is truly present in a real and substantial manner.
Again, I emphasize that the modern and materialist understanding of space time is not more intelligent or greater than this poetry, this music, this mystery of God from God through The Holy Spirit. Rather it is a bland and dull theory resting on the limited powers of the agencies of our powers of observation. This modern era sees the less rational understanding of essence as the more profound while twisting and disfiguring the reality of the human person, raised in dignity by Jesus, Our Lord.
God gives us His very Body by entering the finite creation He made and Man makes God to be a fallacy of human understanding. Weak theories of space time are held as if triumphant over He who created the universe and all the laws of nature. We do a good job of pretending to be knowledgeable, but people never really seem to learn what matters.
 
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