The Eucharist is NOT the body of Christ

[PatienceAndLove]

The same reason we believe that Christ performed miracles without any physical evidence.

Because the Church and the Bible teach it, and as Jesus has proven his credibility, we have faith that he’s not a scoundrel.

The scoundrel comment made me smile

 

[PatienceAndLove]

If the eucharist is the body of Christ how do catholics know this to be the case if there is absolutely no phyiscal change in the wafer and wine itself?

What is the evidence for it?

JA4-
I am willing to post some interesting articles, if you are willing to read them. Are you? And there is also a wonderful book, though not about the Eucharist itself, that I would also love to share with you.
I will refrain from posting until you answer.

Pax Christi!

 

[justasking4]

JA4-
I am willing to post some interesting articles, if you are willing to read them. Are you? And there is also a wonderful book, though not about the Eucharist itself, that I would also love to share with you.
I will refrain from posting until you answer.

Pax Christi!

Since this is a limited discussion i prefer people articulate what they believe and why. I have read on this subject quite a bit.

 

[fdmilkis]

I will show you change within me you will not believe
I will show you miracles you will ignore
I will show you biblical proof you will refute with your private interpretation

 

[justasking4]

Some people might drag you to the authenticated eucharistic miracles. I don’t go there because those are for the faithful or for the wannabe faithful. (It does kind of get my attention that all the verified miracles have the blood type AB negative, as does the Shroud of Turin.)

When sharing Catholic belief with other Christians, I prefer to rely on Jesus’ own words both in John 6 and at the Last Supper.

So the evidence is the persistence of the belief and the fact that it is documented back to the earliest times. The early Christians believed that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist: No argument against that at all for hundreds of years. Refinements in the teaching that led to the definition of transubstantiation came much later in response to various challenges. But the basic belief that this IS the Body of Christ was unchallenged in the Apostolic and subapostolic Church. We have a heck of a paper trail on this.

“Cannibalism” is one of the charges leveled against the early Christians.

None of the Apostolic churches (those with unchallenged Apostolic Succession) has EVER dreamed for a second of changing this belief.

Where in the Scriptures do we find Jesus saying that He would be phyically present with the church through the eucharist?

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Since this is a limited discussion i prefer people articulate what they believe and why. I have read on this subject quite a bit.

I hold the same beliefs as any other Bible-believing Catholic- that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 6 does it for me, as well as the numerous other passages that people have posted.

Most specifically the First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians 11: 23-29
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.
For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 2But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning **the body of the Lord. **

If the Eucharist was not the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord, why would we bring judgment upon ourselves if we eat and drink unworthily?

Footnote in my Bible:
27 “Guilty of the body”… not discerning the body. This demonstrates the real presence of the body and blood of Christ, even to the unworthy communicant; who otherwise could not be guilty of the body and blood of Christ, or justly condemned for not discerning the Lord’s body.

 

[Dauphin]

If the eucharist is the body of Christ how do catholics know this to be the case if there is absolutely no phyiscal change in the wafer and wine itself?

What is the evidence for it?

Did the Apostles demand evidence at the Last Supper?

 

[mercygate]

Where in the Scriptures do we find Jesus saying that He would be phyically present with the church through the eucharist?

He promises to be “with you all days” in Mt. 28:20. He says this IS my Body. He promises the Eleven that He will “send another paraclete who will guide you into all the truth.” Paul speaks of “discerning the body” in the bread. So HE believed it. So we accept the unbroken Apostolic teaching and the evidence of history that this is part of the kerygma.

The scriptures do not quote Jesus as saying: “I will be present with the Church through the Eucharist.” But would you believe He meant it even if he did say it? He did say THIS IS MY BODY. And he speaks ONLY at the Last Supper of the “NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD.”

Call me slow, but even when I didn’t believe what the Catholic Church teaches (and for decades I did not), I found the words of Jesus to be a serious impediment to belief in the “Real Absence” of Christ in the Eucharist.

 

[EphelDuath]

Where in the Scriptures do we find Jesus saying that He would be phyically present with the church through the eucharist?

Matthew 28:20b. “…And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

John 14:16-8. “And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete [the Holy Spirit], that he may abide with you for ever: The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans: I will come to you.”

 

[mercygate]

Matthew 28:20b. “…And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

John 14:16-8. “And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete [the Holy Spirit], that he may abide with you for ever: The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans: I will come to you.”

Thanks for doing my work for me.

 

[planter654]

If the eucharist is the body of Christ how do catholics know this to be the case if there is absolutely no phyiscal change in the wafer and wine itself?

What is the evidence for it?

Blessed are those who believe and have not seen, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

God Bless

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If the eucharist is the body of Christ how do catholics know this to be the case if there is absolutely no phyiscal change in the wafer and wine itself?

What is the evidence for it?

We see it through the eyes of Faith.

Have you ever seen a person comming back to life after being dead for several days or even weeks/moths/years?

 

[mercygate]

I think we exhausted AJV19. Haven’t seen him since yesterday. I hope we didn’t shut him down, poor guy. He took a lot of heat.

Fair heat but a LOT of it.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I think we exhausted AJV19. Haven’t seen him since yesterday. I hope we didn’t shut him down, poor guy. He took a lot of heat.

Fair heat but a LOT of it.

He only seems to log on late in the evening. I don’t know where he is, but if he is in a different country/timezone than the rest of us, that would explain it.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I think we exhausted AJV19. Haven’t seen him since yesterday. I hope we didn’t shut him down, poor guy. He took a lot of heat.

Fair heat but a LOT of it.

And justasking4 is getting a lot of it as well.

 

[mercygate]

And justasking4 is getting a lot of it as well.

JA4 is in a different place.

AJV is very young, vulnerable, and has been fed a diet of religious road-kill that has gjiven him a horrible case of indigestion.

 

[planter654]

He promises to be “with you all days” in Mt. 28:20. He says this IS my Body. He promises the Eleven that He will “send another paraclete who will guide you into all the truth.” Paul speaks of “discerning the body” in the bread. So HE believed it. So we accept the unbroken Apostolic teaching and the evidence of history that this is part of the kerygma.

The scriptures do not quote Jesus as saying: “I will be present with the Church through the Eucharist.” But would you believe He meant it even if he did say it? He did say THIS IS MY BODY. And he speaks ONLY at the Last Supper of the “NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD.”

Call me slow, but even when I didn’t believe what the Catholic Church teaches (and for decades I did not), I found the words of Jesus to be a serious impediment to belief in the “Real Absence” of Christ in the Eucharist.

I am asking you this. When Jesus healed the blind man because he asked Jesus, the blind man was healed. Because the man believed right that Jesus could do it…faith? But did Jesus not also tell the blind man, now go to the priest tell him and offer up, like others had to do in the time of Moses percepts or are they called statues like penance for certain sins etc…like we are told and given penance to do also.

Like the woman at the well when Jesus ask her if she had a husband, Jesus knew she had many husbands. He knew her sins and she answered the truth like a confession and her penenace was Jesus told her…and sin no more, right? Was this not also her penance? Will this not help that man understand confession, penance. Confession brings about within us humility, I know been there. Or am I off the path on this on.

About the Eucharist…Blessed are those who believe and have not seen, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

very little child of God… God Bless

 

[mercygate]

I am asking you this. When Jesus healed the blind man because he asked Jesus, the blind man was healed. Because the man believed right that Jesus could do it…faith? But did Jesus not also tell the blind man, now go to the priest tell him and offer up, like others had to do in the time of Moses percepts or are they called statues like penance for certain sins etc…like we are told and given penance to do also.

Like the woman at the well when Jesus ask her if she had a husband, Jesus knew she had many husbands. He knew her sins and she answered the truth like a confession and her penenace was Jesus told her…and sin no more, right? Was this not also her penance? Will this not help that man understand confession, penance. Confession brings about within us humility, I know been there. Or am I off the path on this on.

About the Eucharist…Blessed are those who believe and have not seen, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

very little child of God… God Bless

Very nice!

 

[justasking4]

EphelDuath;3101457]The same reason we believe that Christ performed miracles without any physical evidence.

Did those who were present when Christ performed His miracles have physical evidence?

Have read I Corinthians 15:1-8? In this passage Paul gives some excellent eyewitness accounts from different people and times that attest to the resurrection. He was not just asking people to believe because he said so but he gives eyewitness accounts for support that Christ did indeed rise from the dead. This kind eyewitness account accounts would hold up well in a court of law.

Because the Church and the Bible teach it, and as Jesus has proven his credibility, we have faith that he’s not a scoundrel.

 

[justasking4]

GandalfTheWhite;3101691]We see it through the eyes of Faith.

I don’t know how this helps you. This is not evidence but speculation.

Have you ever seen a person comming back to life after being dead for several days or even weeks/moths/years?

No