The Eucharist is NOT the body of Christ

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jmcrae;3110076]

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Originally Posted by justasking4
Since Jesus makes no reference to the supper to help them to understand that it would be clear then, this would show that He does not have the supper in mind at all.
Posted by justasking4
Not sure what this has to do with our discussion. Can you clarify?
jmcrae
The same disciples were present at the Bread of Life Discourse as at the Last Supper. They received the answer to the question (“in order to receive eternal life”, before they had the question to ask (“why do we have to eat and drink of Christ’s Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, at the Last Supper or at the Mass?”
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Notice that nobody at the Last Supper ever asked that question - because they had already received the answer to it, in the Bread of Life Discourse.
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Help me out here. I’ve read thru the last supper accounts and i don’t see any reference to eternal life. Not even in Paul’ account do i see anything.

Question for you and others. I have heard from other catholics that you get “special graces” from taking the eucharist. Is this true?
 
planter654 said:
Thank you for your understanding answer. Whow spiritual biography, I knew by your kindness, compassion with me and what I have read in your answers you were spiritual. You came down in knowledge to my littleness to understand. You did so with much patients and compassion. I felt at peace after talking to you. Some others here upset me in my sleep …I would love to have you as my spiritual director.

The arguing I was reading today back and forth was upsetting me. I thought if I mention Job they would read and return to peace with each others.

I am not judging anyone I love them all. I was just trying to understand more, but I know now when St. Teresa
said, she would get a headache if she read so many books.

thank you
God Bless very little child of God.
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:hug3: Don’t be too impressed.

But thank YOU for your kind words. I think you have found your spiritual director in St. Therese of Lisieux. If more of us who contribute to these threads had her “littleness”, her humility and docility – well, I think not much would be going on.
 
justasking4 said:
If a catholic wants to argue that bread and wine is to be taken literally then what do you take the “cup” to be in Luke 22:20
in which Jesus says, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you.” At that moment, is the “cup” also the body/blood of Christ, or is it a figure of symbolic language?
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post #838
 
justasking4 said:
Help me out here. I’ve read thru the last supper accounts and i don’t see any reference to eternal life. Not even in Paul’ account do i see anything.
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At the Last Supper, Jesus said, “This is my Body. This is my Blood.”

At the Bread of Life Discourse (just a few days previously) He said to the same group of people who were sitting together at the Last Supper, 'You must eat My Body and drink My Blood in order to receive eternal life."

That’s how they knew that eating the elements of the Eucharist would give them eternal life.
Question for you and others. I have heard from other catholics that you get “special graces” from taking the eucharist. Is this true?
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Yes, this is true. Why do you ask?
 
justasking4 said:
Help me out here. I’ve read thru the last supper accounts and i don’t see any reference to eternal life. Not even in Paul’ account do i see anything.
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Unite all the passages that has reference to the body/flesh of Christ and you will see the entire picture of the precious truth.
justasking4 said:
Question for you and others. I have heard from other catholics that you get “special graces” from taking the eucharist. Is this true?
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He who said that must have a personal meaning of “special graces” and by that he could be right. The bread according to Paul in 1 Cor 11:29 is to be recognized as body of Christ. Meditate again on the following: “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” That element in the body of Christ which gives the faithful eternal life is a “special grace.”
 
justasking4 said:
Since Jesus makes no reference to the supper to help them to understand that it would be clear then, this would show that He does not have the supper in mind at all.

Not sure what this has to do with our discussion. Can you clarify?
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It’s like being issued equipment in the army. They give it to you, then they teach you how to use it.

The miraculous feeding of “normal” bread to the 5000 * followed by the appearance on the sea [the spirit of God moved upon the face of the water], followed by the Bread of Life Discourse [he who believes / eats of this bread . . . will live forever] is a sequence that pops into significance AFTER the last supper. In fact, in Mark’s version , it specifically states in the appearance on the sea immediately following the feeding of the 5000 that “they did not understand about the loaves.”

In John, when He asks: "Do you also wish to go away?’ the answer is (as another poster mentioned earlier) an answer of faith, not of understanding. “To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” The Apostles trust Him because they know Him.

Truly, this is a hard saying. But not harder than the hearts of those who walked away.

It is no coincidence that in verse 71 it is mentioned that Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, and that the betrayal occurs at the Last Supper.*
 
justasking4 said:
Where do you get the idea from I Corinthians 11:27 that Paul is speaking words of consecration?
Perhaps.
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To “invoke” is not the same as “to speak”. He invoked the consecration, but he did not speak the very words of the consecration.
 
Hello,

If we look at Revelations, which John wrote, he gives us a number of a beast, one that would deceive and mislead. He says the number is 666. If we look at another of John’s works - the Gospel according to John - his verse 6:66: As a result of this (teaching on the Eucharist), many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

That beast that deceives, misleads and devours being connected to peoples refusal of the doctrine of the Eucharist. I don’t know if there is actually anything to that, but I have always found that interesting.
 
justasking4 said:
If a catholic wants to argue that bread and wine is to be taken literally then what do you take the “cup” to be in** Luke 22:20**
in which Jesus says, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you.” At that moment, is the “cup” also the body/blood of Christ, or is it a figure of symbolic language?
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In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.
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He is obviously speaking of what is in the chalice, not the chalice itself.
 
Hello,
mercygate said:
It is no coincidence that in verse 71 it is mentioned that Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, and that the betrayal occurs at the Last Supper.
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Indeed, Judas was a faithful follower of Jesus. But this teaching on the Eucharist was too much for him and as a result, Judas starts to turn away and betray Christ. Judas was also probably the most learned among the Apostles (before Paul joined their ranks) - could there be a connection between trying to fully understand this intellectually and the inability to understand it at all - intellectual pride gets in the way.
 
revelations said:
Now please, can we close this thread? It’s like a car that can only turn left…eventually you go by the same bakery again and again and again and again…
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Does that bakery have donuts? Cause I want a donut
 
JMJ_coder said:
Hello,

If we look at Revelations, which John wrote, he gives us a number of a beast, one that would deceive and mislead. He says the number is 666. If we look at another of John’s works - the Gospel according to John - his verse 6:66: As a result of this (teaching on the Eucharist), many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

That beast that deceives, misleads and devours being connected to peoples refusal of the doctrine of the Eucharist. I don’t know if there is actually anything to that, but I have always found that interesting.
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I always found the way that worked out absolutely fascinating.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
He is obviously speaking of what is in the chalice, not the chalice itself.
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Yes, chalice there was used to refer to its contents. We do not swallow the chalice. We swallow the content of the chalice, the content which appears wine.
 
mercygate said:
:hug3: Don’t be too impressed.

But thank YOU for your kind words. I think you have found your spiritual director in St. Therese of Lisieux. If more of us who contribute to these threads had her “littleness”, her humility and docility – well, I think not much would be going on.
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I understood that and you are right. We will be leaving soon another week yet, for the holidays for 2 months and I will miss looking for your messages No computor where we are going. But will bring my bible and books and read alot and again on St Therese, St. Faustina etc. So get ready I will probably be asking you lots of questions on my return.

God Bless have a Blessed Merry Christ-mass–a very little child of God.
 
justasking4 said:
If i understand you correctly then in John 6 Jesus is advocating canabalism. This is what follows from what you are saying.
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That’s exactly what the pagan Romans claimed the Christians believed, as they sent them into the arena to be martyred. It is an honor to be called a cannibal by a pagans, rationalists and Protestant skeptics. It says that we believe as the glorious martyrs believed.
 
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